RELIGION - You and I vs. The World – Keeping Score

Ah, now that the title got your attention, this OP will not be what you expect. My idea of keeping score is not to keep a record of wins and losses regarding which doctrines are the most convincing. It’s really about the WAY we present our messages. In this area of debate we need to realize that no one can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are right. This is a key point because the way we present our views will be taken into account when the debate is over. Since neither side can prove they are right, the only thing left after the dust settles is the impression we have of each other. That is important since it‘s really the most impacting piece of evidence. WE ARE the evidence of our beliefs.

Those of us who are strong advocates for freedom of speech can’t expect others to keep their opinions and beliefs to themselves. We should actually encourage others to speak their minds - unless we are hypocrites.

I know how deeply ingrained our beliefs are so I expect people to present their views with strong emotion. But those who do it forcefully and disrespectfully are losing the debate in the eyes of the world – that is, the eyes of those who are undecided.

So here's the conspiracy: Your opponent wants you to come unglued. You and I must resist.

So, in my opinion, the WAY we present our message is the biggest evidence. Those who are respectful and tolerant are, in my opinion, the winners - in the eyes of the undecided.

How can you disagree?

reply to post by FearNoEvil


I don't disagree. I think you are dead on.

I don't need a monument to keep me on the path of good, or god. If there is a god, he / she / it is bigger then any conception of god that I can relate to you. I don't look down on those who enjoy temple, church, or any other trapping of religion, but I wouldn't be a worthwhile human being if I needed an outside agency to remind me of the differences between good and evil.

There is a "voice" in my heart (and soul, if such a thing can be said to exist in any meaningful way.) Listening to that voice is all the evidence or proof that I need that there are choices in this life, and some affirm life, while others enslave us to ideas and concepts that have no bearing on the argument whatsoever.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


hey forgot to ask on other post is that Ozzy as in-

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by FearNoEvil


my sentiments EXACTLY

its all about how you "represent!"

reply to post by FearNoEvil


Here I go again. I seldom post on Religious issues here, even though I am a person of Faith.

You are not going far enough here. We should not even be posting in most if not all of the topics in this Forum. It is foolish to do so. It's like jumping into a pot of boiling water to cool off. It simply serves no one.

If you knew a thief was coming, would you open the door or lock it? This is not the place to share any message. It is a place where messages are destroyed.

This Forum is for one purpose. To prove Religion wrong. To attract people of Faith to demonize them and ridicule them. So why is anyone of Faith involving themselves?

When I was a child....

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by FearNoEvil

 

Here I go again. I seldom post on Religious issues here, even though I am a person of Faith.

You are not going far enough here. We should not even be posting in most if not all of the topics in this Forum. It is foolish to do so. It's like jumping into a pot of boiling water to cool off. It simply serves no one.

If you knew a thief was coming, would you open the door or lock it? This is not the place to share any message. It is a place where messages are destroyed.

This Forum is for one purpose. To prove Religion wrong. To attract people of Faith to demonize them and ridicule them. So why is anyone of Faith involving themselves?

When I was a child....

Each of us who take part in these discussions are hoping to shed some light on what we feel is truth.

I must admit, I have learned a lot about opponents of religion. It helps me understand their frustrations. And most of the time I am just as frustrated as they are about "religion".

Here's what the Bible says of religion...

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I agree with this description but many are offended by it. As long as I don't force it on people then why would anyone mind if I live by it? Hence, the debate.

If we didn't have this forum we would have less opportunity to understand each others views. The test is to do it civilly. Tests show us our own weaknesses.

Peace

reply to post by FearNoEvil


To me its environment. We don't "convert" people, we attract them by our actions. We don't use force to convert or teach, we rely, again, on example.

My mind returns to "And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet".

I think this is misunderstood. The anti-religion crowd see any response as a personal attack against them. This is simply not the right environment, nor is it wanted by most who are here to argue it is all a lie.

It's all moot unless the person "asks". The interaction with others follows, it does not precede. The only thing it accomplishes is to drive people away from asking, because why bother with such a divisive subject when it has no real meaning to you?

reply to post by Blaine91555


not meaning to be divisive and agree to a point and have no problem with what you want to do with your perception but I really think there has been a huge misrepresentation about The Word and I find these very interesting-

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.-Rom14

For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.-Col1.16

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.-Rom8.37

Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?-Gal3.2

And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.-Mark13.10

He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear his voice in the streets.-Matt12.19

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute.-Prov31.8

unless you become like....


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

reply to post by No King but Jesus


I find your name interesting. My Faith is based on one thing, the only relevant thing to me, to be as much like Jesus as I am capable of being.

Arguing over nuances of scripture is a trap in my mind. If it divides, it is wrong.

I see the disease of the body as having many names. Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Baptist and on and on and on. They are all traps. They are all diseases. A Sunday fashion show in a monument to man is more wrong than right. It's a travesty in fact. Were the Curtains rent or not?

That is where my journey has led after trying Denomination after Denomination and listening to them tear each other apart and slander each other. I currently doubt that one in ten people who claim Christianity are even remotely Christian.

I'll regret posting this

[edit on 7/9/2010 by Blaine91555]

reply to post by Blaine91555


I hear ya, I only know with absolute life and death certainty the voice I heard and the heavenly being I saw and find it interesting to see in the scripts but also see some I do not think apply and totally agree about all the division, so I study and read even here to sharpeneth thouest my swordeth like ironeth with a touch of lightnin-lol, and as far as my name see signature also-

The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."-Gal3.12

Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint-Prov29.18

until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.-Eph4.13

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-John1.12

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.-Matt28.18

He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."-Acts17.31

the LORD is our king-Is33.22

There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.-Eze37.22

How awesome is the LORD Most High, the great King over all the earth!
-Ps47.2

The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.
Zechariah 14.9

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.-Is40.22

So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.-1Cor15.45

He sent dispatches to all parts of the kingdom, to each province in its own script and to each people in its own language, proclaiming in each people's tongue that every man should be ruler over his own household.-Esther1.22

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king.-Rev17.11


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

I think people are turned off when a Christian tells them “you are going to Hell if you don’t believe in Jesus”. I always have to wonder, what does it mean to “believe” in Jesus?

Some believe Jesus existed but they don’t believe He was immaculately conceived.

Some believe Jesus died for their sins but believe they can’t go to Heaven unless they do good works along with their faith.

Some believe Jesus died for their sins but don’t believe God raised Him from the dead.

Some believe He was a good prophet but was never crucified.

Some believe He is God and some believe He is just an Angel.

Some believe everything I believe about Jesus but they are fearful, selfish and unforgiving.

Even Demons believe in Jesus.

The list goes on and on. Let God be the judge.

I think Christians should refrain from telling the world they are going to Hell if they don’t accept Jesus (even though that’s what most believe). God doesn’t want a bunch of scared followers that just want to escape Hell.

IMO

Religion is a tool, made so we're all kept tame.

reply to post by MattParker21

The same could be said for laws that are made to keep the peace. Those laws encourage people to stay tame.

Most don't have a problem with laws that promote peace. Why would anyone have a problem with a religion that promotes peace, whether it's Christianity, Buddhism or any other peaceful religion?

Peace

reply to post by MattParker21


when I was around 13ish I watched what I originally thought was a glowing(by moon or street light) white sheet getting bigger coming in from the south until he(?-looked strong) landed on the roof ridge across the street and focusing in I saw what I think would be called a cherubim now thanks to another post-er(had wings) as he started walking very peculiarly I might add toward the east and when he got to the edge started to look down then suddenly as if caught off gaurd turned his head towards me and looked directly in the eyes, I ducked under the window ledge terrified and when looked back up he was heading back the direction he came

then years later and one night I went to pick up a small green Gideons NT that a woman left on the bar a few days earlier and as soon as I began to open the cover I heard an AUDIBLE voice as if sitting to my left that said-my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish- AWESTRUCK (i was not raised churched or knew any scripts) I stood to my feet turned to the voice and said yes Lord, and years later came across these-

I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.-John5.25

God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.-Acts2.32

Christ has indeed been raised from the dead-1Cor15.20

For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.2Cor5.14

But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."-Eph5.13

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.-1Tim1.15


[edit on by No King but Jesus]

I personally don't care what the unbelievers who are set in their minds think because chances are they will never change. I am here for those who are on the fence, those with questions who need a reason to believe.

But I do agree, we need to resist those comments that are designed to keep us from reaching those who seek.