Conservative views that do not make much sense

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posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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Conservatives seem to be making a big stink over illegal immigration and the budget deficit. Yet their views on these subjects seem to conflict with core beliefs.

Conservatives are big on having few regulations and allowing free markets to work things out, yet they take a contrary view when it comes to illegal immigration laws. Illegal immigration laws are regulatory in nature just like SEC regulations or EPA regulations. It seems that conservatives would favor relaxing immigration laws and allowing labor markets to work themselves out, but they do not.

Conservatives are big into fiscal responsibility and balanced budget. Currently, the biggest budget breakers on the federal level are: social security, medicare, and the military. Conservatives do not want to cut any of these.

This is not to say Democrats or liberals are perfect. They have their issues, too. But I have yet to hear a conservative reconcile these positions.




posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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When Michael Steel made those comments about the war in Afghanistan it was simply frightening to hear Liz Chenney in agreement and lockstep with Obama. As well as John McCain, Stephen Hays and Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard.
You have to know these people favor war not to protect America or because it is such a surefire defense strategy. This is not because it is a "platform" which is in the best interests of America...

It is capitalism on steroids.

They all make weapons. (or are funded and supported and exist to promote, warrant a case for, and legitimatize, those entities that make weapons)
They are in the weapons business and war is an opportunity to thrive, for their business sector to boom.
They are for war and will be so no matter what the conditions are on the ground, regardless of whether it is good bad or ugly....They support war and war mongers....because they make weapons.

No war is downtime for a lot of these manufacturers and all the people they support.

How transparent does it need to be before people realize what you are signing up for when you cast a vote for this party?

This is the drill and kill squad.





[edit on 8-7-2010 by rusethorcain]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:11 PM
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You're confusing neo-con/neo-lib ideology for conservatism.

Of course the "neo's" contradict themselves all over and make little to know logical sense. That's the point.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 

Your problem is you're pointing out contradictions in the "party line" stance, when the truth is movements as large as "conservative" or "liberal" are not homogeneous and actually are made up of people with more specific interests. So one person's big issue is abortion, another's is fiscal responsibility, another's is national security. They tend to vote together (since what they have in common is they're hung up on the two-party system) and so that makes it look like they are all these crazy contradictions. But talk to one in private sometime and you'll find that the views they hold to be most important to them are more "specialized" views, not the whole gamut.

An insightful and funny column on conservatives and the confusion surrounding that term can be found here: www.fredoneverything.net...



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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Nature functions only on conservative principles. You learn work or die. There is no 'liberal' natural animal model where an individual follows its own desires to be entertained. All natural models require the individual to provide to its maximum or it will be shunned and destroyed. Do NOT try to tell me how nice bees and ants are, I know better,
A country is a family of sorts and I'm sure YOU have locks on your doors to maintain the integrity of your home. There is invitation and there is invasion and they are not the same thing.
The tenor of your post and those like it is aggravation about growing up and living by your own capabilities. It's tough to leave mamma. It is the perpetual complaint of youth and inexperience. You seek for a new comfortable paradigm. There are none save theft from and murder of those that are better and harder working than you. As a result of immature narcissism you follow craven leaders that legitmize and promise theft in your name.
If you believe in evolution, understand the guiding principle is that the functionally weak and deficient (compared to the others) are intended to die first to allow the superior to procreate.
Still feeling all green and gaia?


+10 more 
posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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Liberal ideas that don’t make sense…..

You kill un born babies

You want to keep the boarders open.

You don’t want anyone to own a gun but the government. NOT A GOOD IDEA!

You like to spend other people’s money and call it taxing but when it
comes to your own you have a hard time parting from it

You believe you can talk terrorists out of their ways

You hate America

I sometimes think you hate yourself so you make rules for everyone to be miserable.

You believe in the nanny state.

And you hate us solders.

There’s a lot more but I got to run.


[edit on 8-7-2010 by camaro68ss]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by mordant1
 





Nature functions only on conservative principles. You learn work or die.


Tell that to a remora.

With this apparatus (a modification of the dorsal fin) the remora, or suckerfish, attaches itself to sharks, swordfishes, drums, marlins, and sea turtles. In this way it travels without effort, feeding on scraps from the prey of these larger creatures and in some cases on their crustacean parasites.

Tell it to any other number of parasitic mutually beneficial symbiotic relationships that exist in nature.
We do what we can and if it fits somewhere and does not have a natural enemy... it takes. This is not conservatism it is opportunism and we are nothing if not opportunistic.

Nature is niches...lots of large and small niches that need to be filled. Many of those depend on each other.

[edit on 8-7-2010 by rusethorcain]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss
Liberal ideas that don’t make sense…..

You kill un born babies

You want to keep the boarders open.

You don’t want anyone to own a gun but the government. NOT A GOOD IDEA!

You like to spend other people’s money and call it taxing but when it
comes to your own you have a hard time parting from it

You believe you can talk terrorists out of their ways

You hate America

I sometimes think you hate yourself so you make rules for everyone to be miserable.

You believe in the nanny state.

And you hate us solders.

There’s a lot more but I got to run.


[edit on 8-7-2010 by camaro68ss]


Liars anonymous meeting today?



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Conservatives seem to be making a big stink over illegal immigration and the budget deficit. Yet their views on these subjects seem to conflict with core beliefs.


Being one (fiscally only, I'm a libertarian), I quite agree. It seems hypocrisy is rampant, though it's not just the conservatives. There's is just more obvious.



Conservatives are big on having few regulations and allowing free markets to work things out, yet they take a contrary view when it comes to illegal immigration laws.


This is a double edged sword. I do not believe in a large border patrol, nor do I care who comes here to make a better life...HOWEVER, the 'liberals' want to tax the heck out of people, and give it to those who come here. Not in so many words (or on purpose), but that is what is happening.

The neo-con solution is to stop immigration.

The real logical choice would be to stop welfare for non-citizens, and cut back DRASTICALLY on taxes for the lower/middle class. It will never happen as both the democrats and neo-cons LOVE big brother and spending.



Illegal immigration laws are regulatory in nature just like SEC regulations or EPA regulations. It seems that conservatives would favor relaxing immigration laws and allowing labor markets to work themselves out, but they do not.


I agree. That would be choice. However, we do not have free markets and are taxed to a breaking point, and all that money is being used opposite to who is actually paying. I think it's a knee jerk reaction, but that's what happens when someone is pushed too hard one way. They lose sight of purpose, and attack the nearest symptom (immigrants), not the cause (taxation).



Conservatives are big into fiscal responsibility and balanced budget. Currently, the biggest budget breakers on the federal level are: social security, medicare, and the military. Conservatives do not want to cut any of these.


Again, good observation. The 'true conservatives' probably no longer carry that name for their philosophy as these 'neo-conservatives' has replaced its meaning with filth.



This is not to say Democrats or liberals are perfect. They have their issues, too. But I have yet to hear a conservative reconcile these positions.


Exactly. And most 'conservatives' now-a-days, are not actually conservative. It's like duck claiming to be a hippo. If you've never seen a true hippo, how do you know the duck is not a hippo?

True conservatives are jumping off the Republican boat, the NeoCons have shot it to pieces. IMHO. I think there's a NeoLib movement as well. Both the NeoLib and the NeoCon movements are getting us closer to fascism than anything. But I don't see it stopping....


[edit on 7/8/2010 by Arcane Demesne]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


Actually we spend more of our money on education, and pensions than the military. Here is the current state of affairs:

www.usgovernmentspending.com...

If fact the last few years, the military defense spending was beaten out by pensions, education and health care.

Right now its:
17% Health
16% education
15% pensions
14% military

In fact since 2008, education has ALWAYS been ahead of military spending, so you are incorrect in thinking that the military is a part of the budget breaker. (Note it is over all spending. )You have three more spending areas ahead of the military. And frankly we are not really getting our money's worth in the spending on education. More $$ =/= smarter students. Plus where does all THAT money go? To the teacher unions that have a death hold with the democrat party. No vouchers, while overcrowded public schools are the norm. Ug I can go on and on.

Federally speaking yes, military spending is ahead of education.
Now that stated, I do believe that there is excessive waste in the military. Some much needed military items are in short supply, but unnecessary items are pushed in. Cuts are done in the wrong fields and branches of the military. (ie F-22 program, new bomber program, etc.), but the armchair generals in the Pentagon and DoD get increases in their pay for doing noting, while our own soldiers get shafted when it comes to benefits, pay, and VA care.


All the while liberals think that pouring more money into "social programs" will make things better, and all it does it create dependence on the govt to do everything for them. THAT is not cool. This attitude of "give me something for nothing" POs me every time I hear it. I cant get jack squat in assistance because I'm not of a certain color or race, even though I bust my hump to make a living and get an education, and pay out the nose for it, but someone else who doesnt feel like learning and wastes their education time and fails, he is given all the money to "help" them get an education. And rather than getting an education, they squander it on the streets being thugs and banging on the corner showing their street colors. We give them all the money and its lie pouring it down the drain. Where is the sense in that?



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


Not sure you are including "black" budget spending in the above military estimates. Everyone knows this is where the real money goes.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
You're confusing neo-con/neo-lib ideology for conservatism.


I disagree, this is conservative itself as an ideology. Infact I would not say conservatism contradicts itself, I just believe there are people who carry the label of conservative with them but never follow suit.

-You complain about the census and how its an invasion of privacy and yet you support a law that allows cops to do the exact same, only this time the law is targeted to a portion of the population.

-we have conservatives complain about illegal immigration and while this may be reasonable, at the same time you insist the government stay out of businesses. So if illegals are coming here for jobs, and companies continue to hire them, and yet those on the right insist the government let businesses be, no government regulation, so whats to stop illegals either staying or coming through? Considering there is no government sight over these businesses whom hire?

There are plenty of others I wish to list but for now if you could address this, and any other points you'd like to make about liberalism, by all means.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

-You complain about the census and how its an invasion of privacy and yet you support a law that allows cops to do the exact same, only this time the law is targeted to a portion of the population.


I do? I've said repeatedly I dont care who come here from where or how they get here. Give the Southwest back to Mexico for all I care. Remove the borders of the united stated entirely. Just dont make me pay for what happens.




-we have conservatives complain about illegal immigration and while this may be reasonable, at the same time you insist the government stay out of businesses. So if illegals are coming here for jobs, and companies continue to hire them, and yet those on the right insist the government let businesses be, no government regulation, so whats to stop illegals either staying or coming through? Considering there is no government sight over these businesses whom hire?


Hire them. I'm all for getting rid of the minimum wage nonsense and hiring aliens for pennies on the dollar is fine by me.

Consumers have to have some responsibility and if they choose to support these actions with their consumption habits then they've decided this is okay. Let them live with the consequences. Just dont make me pay to clean up the mess.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss
Liberal ideas that don’t make sense…..

You kill un born babies


A baby has been born. If it's unborn, then it isn't a baby.


You want to keep the boarders open.


Strawman. Who wants them completely open?


You don’t want anyone to own a gun but the government.


Another strawman.


You like to spend other people’s money and call it taxing but when it
comes to your own you have a hard time parting from it


Yet another strawman. I believe liberals are fine with more taxes on themselves so long as it doesn't go to the trillion or so wasted on Iraq & Afghanistan.


You believe you can talk terrorists out of their ways


Strawman. Please, give us specific instances where this is true.


You hate America


And you hate what it actually stands for.


And you hate us solders.


Again, need proof - both for the claim that liberals hate soldiers, and the claim that you yourself are one. At least we know how to spell "soldier."


[edit on 7/8/10 by mothershipzeta]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:44 PM
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It is worthy to note that the employers of illegal aliens, the guys who hire illegals, mostly vote conservative. They will pretend to uphold the law while profiting greatly from breaking it.



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


Actually we spend more of our money on education, and pensions than the military. Here is the current state of affairs:

www.usgovernmentspending.com...

If fact the last few years, the military defense spending was beaten out by pensions, education and health care.

Right now its:
17% Health
16% education
15% pensions
14% military

In fact since 2008, education has ALWAYS been ahead of military spending, so you are incorrect in thinking that the military is a part of the budget breaker.



You know why the military spending was relatively low (though I've never seen a claim that it was only 14%)? Because Bush funded his wars OUTSIDE the budget.

How about the REAL numbers?




posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Conservatives seem to be making a big stink over illegal immigration and the budget deficit. Yet their views on these subjects seem to conflict with core beliefs.


Conservatives do not "seem" to be doing any such thing.

Conservatives oppose the violation of our borders and the employment of aliens without documentation. You "seem" to be implying that Liberals FAVOR these things!


Conservatives are big on having few regulations and allowing free markets to work things out, yet they take a contrary view when it comes to illegal immigration laws. Illegal immigration laws are regulatory in nature just like SEC regulations or EPA regulations.


No, they are not. The EPA and SEC are agencies of the Executive; immigration "laws," by definition, are the creation of Congress, signed into law by the Executive.
Administrative regulations are not equivalent to statutes.
Most Conservatives will tell you that the SEC and EPA have far exceeded their authority and should be "reined in."


It seems that conservatives would favor relaxing immigration laws and allowing labor markets to work themselves out, but they do not.


What "seems" to you has no connection to reality. Since when do illegal immigrants belong to a legitimate "labor market?" Only in Liberal group-think would anyone consider an illegal immigrant to be a part of the legitimate "labor market."

Conservatives believe in limited government and the rule of law.

Labor rules and current law prohibit employment of undocumented aliens. Are you implying that Liberals oppose this, or that anyone should?


Conservatives are big into fiscal responsibility and balanced budget. Currently, the biggest budget breakers on the federal level are: social security, medicare, and the military. Conservatives do not want to cut any of these.


In reality, the military budget is a fraction of discretionary spending and welfare mandates such as Social Security and Medicare. Conservatives will tell you that robbing from the SSI and social welfare funds is immoral and dishonest. True Conservatives will also tell you that they are temporary welfare funds created in times of distress that no longer make sense and are in need of reform if they are to remain viable. Whatever happened to the"lockbox?"


I have yet to hear a conservative reconcile these positions.


You haven't been listening, or have chosen to listen to other voices.

deny ignorance

jw



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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Reply to post by rusethorcain
 


So liberals are leeches.

LOL

Nice analogy.

Works for me.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Conservatives seem to be making a big stink over illegal immigration and the budget deficit. Yet their views on these subjects seem to conflict with core beliefs.

Conservatives are big on having few regulations and allowing free markets to work things out, yet they take a contrary view when it comes to illegal immigration laws. Illegal immigration laws are regulatory in nature just like SEC regulations or EPA regulations. It seems that conservatives would favor relaxing immigration laws and allowing labor markets to work themselves out, but they do not.

Conservatives are big into fiscal responsibility and balanced budget. Currently, the biggest budget breakers on the federal level are: social security, medicare, and the military. Conservatives do not want to cut any of these.

This is not to say Democrats or liberals are perfect. They have their issues, too. But I have yet to hear a conservative reconcile these positions.
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



That's because you're listening to hypocritical neoconservative trash on TV. People like Sarah Palin, or Michael Steele. These people are not Conservatives. If they were actual Conservatives they would have put a stop to G.W.B's agenda at the onset.

Indeed, real conservatives would have already drawn up plans to phase out SS and Medicare, not "find a way to pay for it". News flash, there is NO WAY to pay for it. The military budget is another matter entirely. 70% of our defense budget is overseas. We pay, as American tax payers, for the military protection of much of the world. Countries that would otherwise be paying for their own defense instead of creating whiny dependent societies.

Real Conservatives would have screamed at the top of their lungs about the abuses of this and previous governments the US has formed out of the two party dictatorship. They would have condemned anyone who would stand against the Constitution and our Individual and Natural Rights.

There are no real Conservatives. People like me are called right wing extremists. I'm a Constitutionalist. Libertarians and real Liberals are called terrorists too. I used to be on their side before they got Obama and began to apologize for his disregard of the Constitution. Where are Men and Women of principle? Where is the conviction here?

We can debate all day long about who of these two corrupt political mafias has the most lube on hand, but we're still going to get bent over. This has to end, and it has to end now. We need to restore our Republic, and restore our respect for Liberty.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 8-7-2010 by projectvxn]



posted on Jul, 8 2010 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
You're confusing neo-con/neo-lib ideology for conservatism.


I disagree, this is conservative itself as an ideology. Infact I would not say conservatism contradicts itself, I just believe there are people who carry the label of conservative with them but never follow suit.

-You complain about the census and how its an invasion of privacy and yet you support a law that allows cops to do the exact same, only this time the law is targeted to a portion of the population.


The law doesn't target a race of people, it targets 'illegals'. That they happen to come almost entirely from the south and not from the north is not called out in the law - that's just the trend which exists.



-we have conservatives complain about illegal immigration and while this may be reasonable, at the same time you insist the government stay out of businesses. So if illegals are coming here for jobs, and companies continue to hire them, and yet those on the right insist the government let businesses be, no government regulation, so whats to stop illegals either staying or coming through? Considering there is no government sight over these businesses whom hire?


There is a big difference between expecting the government to enforce a law that already exists and wanting the government to not regulate private business based on its own interests. Apples and oranges.









 
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