How Would You Prove An Alien... Is... Umm... An Alien?

Let's say you have an EBE [Extraterrestrial Biological Entity] in your back yard, and you want to prove it's a real, genuine alien. (Don't worry too much about the terminology here - let's assume it IS a real alien from some distant planet).

How do you do it?

~ Look at its appearance? Sure. It looks weird, certainly doesn't look human. But then again, there are plenty of unfortunate people out there with illnesses/deformities that give them an 'odd' look. Plenty of strange-looking terrestrial animals. Would this prove it's an alien?

~ Take a DNA sample? Sure. Comes back "unknown", not human! Would this prove it's an alien? (plenty of undiscovered species out there in our own world)

~ Get it to perform amazing feats of mind power? Would this prove it's an alien? (Uri Geller can bend spoons by eyeballing them).

~ Recover it from a UFO crash site? Would this prove it's an alien, even if you saw it flying the craft?

~ What if we saw it coming from space to earth in a craft? Does this prove it's an alien? (that's nothing humans haven't done)

~ Ask it to tell the world the story of its origins, describing its planet, their star system, how it got to earth etc... Would this prove it's an alien? (a dozen people tell a similar story every day on ATS).

Do you see a problem emerging here? How would it ever be possible to prove a creature is not from this earth, when we have no reference to use?

All of our biological references are from our own planet. We can say a human is a human because we already have a DNA reference. We can say an earth plant is an earth plant, because we already have the biological data on it.

If we knew the biological makeup/DNA of a species of aliens from - say - Planet A, and our alien matched up with that strand of DNA, then we could say conclusively that our alien really is an alien.

But when a creature's biology is completely unknown then there is literally no possible way to prove it is extraterrestrial.

Also, even if you could prove it, who would be qualified to make such a conclusion??

(This could be a possible reason "disclosure" has yet to happen - if they can't prove it, they won't announce it.)

[edit on 25-6-2010 by FOXMULDER147]

Well I guess it would be like a lot of science - you can't prove hardly anything 100%. All you can do is suggest what is the most likely explanation.

I would say that a thorough biological analysis (biochemistry, morphology, cell structure etc) would be required to determine if there are any likely links to Earthly evolution. An alien species, while may have some analogous body parts/functions, would have followed quite a different evolutionary path if from another planet.

Scientific research is confirmed with levels of confidence rather than absolute truth.

You would have to go the the alien's home world and study its biology to say this is truly 100% alien.

Even newly discovered species shares genetics with the rest of all living things from our planet. Trace its genome and you can tell from which species it evolved, etc.

If you were to test a dna sample from an extraterrestrial it would likely have no genetic matches with any of us, unless the et is somehow related to us.

Lets say you do find a "creature" (for lack of a better word) which is obviously not human, but "humanoid" (or similar), and you can genuinely communicate using language. Does it matter if it's from earth or not?

Originally posted by seenitall
You would have to go the the alien's home world and study its biology to say this is truly 100% alien.

I think so too.

Originally posted by Leto
Even newly discovered species shares genetics with the rest of all living things from our planet. Trace its genome and you can tell from which species it evolved, etc.

If you were to test a dna sample from an extraterrestrial it would likely have no genetic matches with any of us, unless the et is somehow related to us.

Would "no genetic match" prove it is extraterrestrial? Who would be qualified to pronounce it as such?

Originally posted by GobbledokTChipeater
Lets say you do find a "creature" (for lack of a better word) which is obviously not human, but "humanoid" (or similar), and you can genuinely communicate using language. Does it matter if it's from earth or not?

Yes, I think it would matter! It makes quite a difference.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Yes, I think it would matter! It makes quite a difference.

I think there's definitely alien life out there somewhere anyway, the universe is just too big for there not to be, so it would only confirm what I already know. But it would still be quite a large discovery either way.

Originally posted by seenitall
An alien species, while may have some analogous body parts/functions, would have followed quite a different evolutionary path if from another planet.

While this would seem a logical conclusion, it isn't. There is a very good probability that several species have had a similar enough evolution to you humans, that they and their evolution are indistinguishable. I would agree that this is likely rare, but such aliens must exist.

Originally posted by Leto
Even newly discovered species shares genetics with the rest of all living things from our planet. Trace its genome and you can tell from which species it evolved, etc.

If you were to test a dna sample from an extraterrestrial it would likely have no genetic matches with any of us, unless the et is somehow related to us.

Again there are no guaranty. There is still a possibility that ET's DNA may "look" rather Human.

And, IF ET's DNA "looks" Human, yet traces to no known haplogroup, most will simply think that ET is just a Human.

And this is the real problem with "proving" ET. You have no frame of reference, so no matter how different, or how similar ET is; you just can't tell. Unfortunately, most people would opt to "cut off their nose to spite their face" and assume that ET is a Human, no matter what the evidence said.

Etharzi od Oma.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Would "no genetic match" prove it is extraterrestrial? Who would be qualified to pronounce it as such?

These are two good questions!

In my experience many people will start limiting the data set to allow for a higher probability of a match with a Human population. They tend to ignore the very data analysis and mining principals I spent a life time learning and helping to define. To me the whole practice of limiting the data is wrong, unless there is sound reasons to do so (there are actually good reasons to limit data, but not in the case of DNA).

Who would be qualified to pronounce! There are several DNA databases available around the world, some are commercial and are oriented toward finding matches, many of these use matching rules that limit the dataset in order to find a match faster, and with less data. Most of these are relatively small, only a few thousand records.

Other databases are research oriented, and are intended as respositories of specific DNA data, such as Y-Chromosome markers. The larges of these has nearly 90,000 records ... quite large. Databases like these have few if any matching rules, though they will provide a "group match".

In my opinion (not as an ET, but as an information professional) this latter database is the better of the species. Yet, are even they complete enough to provide a good conclusion?

Etharzi od Oma


[edit on 25-6-2010 by AnthraAndromda]

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


the "unknown" aspect of all of this alien/ufo/bigfoot etc. is what pumps the blood to the heart of this discussion. I for one believe in extraterrestrials but we should stop quibbling about proof and hoaxes. The beauty of it is..."THERES SOMETHING"....and we don't know. Time, space, god, alien, creation, universe, and gravity are all things so complex that our brightest minds struggle to comprehend their existence let alone find a their true meaning and influence in life. Lets appreciate just how cool it is to look up at the sky questioning our selves.

We really are on a blue round ball that's rotating around a ball of fire both hurdling through the unknown black. That's CRAZY! Enjoy it.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Let's say you have an EBE [Extraterrestrial Biological Entity] in your back yard, and you want to prove it's a real, genuine alien. (Don't worry too much about the terminology here - let's assume it IS a real alien from some distant planet).

How do you do it?

~ Take a DNA sample? Sure. Comes back "unknown", not human! Would this prove it's an alien? (plenty of undiscovered species out there in our own world)

Do you see a problem emerging here? How would it ever be possible to prove a creature is not from this earth, when we have no reference to use?

All of our biological references are from our own planet. We can say a human is a human because we already have a DNA reference. We can say an earth plant is an earth plant, because we already have the biological data on it.

If we knew the biological makeup/DNA of a species of aliens from - say - Planet A, and our alien matched up with that strand of DNA, then we could say conclusively that our alien really is an alien.

But when a creature's biology is completely unknown then there is literally no possible way to prove it is extraterrestrial.

[edit on 25-6-2010 by FOXMULDER147]

Very good point ! What is there to say for one thing that the DNA building blocks of life are not Universal ( meaning universally generic ) and only the message of those blocks is what says how they are assembled , example species or individual of a species .

Next problem , what if the example you give of comparing to a earth human is faulty because mankind is introduced by the alledged alien in the first place .

What is not to say that we are aliens with amnaesia of our origins having lost our history over many generations .

What is to say that we don't have DNA in common from our origin , ancestors , genetic manipulation , or creation by such alledged alien/god .Prehaps the said alien is our missing link .

It is a very good question you put forward OP , there is no way to measure anything in existance when this logic is applied be it God or science .

Now my question to anyone posting here is this . When we talk of examples of earth things and earth based humans for comparasions and DNA examples .Would anyone like to explain 0 ( zero ) type blood in so called earth humans .
Yes I said zero type blood not O ( ohh ) .This is a misnomer over a hundred years old . When blood typing was founded it was zero , later misinturpated as O ( ohh )because the symbol of 0 ( zero ) looks similar .The meaning of 0 ( zero ) meant oringinally zero rheus .This means that these people do not share the same ancestor as other humans , primates or any other species on earth .They are geneticly uncompatable with other humans .Example 0 (zero) blood is refered to as universal for blood donation meaning all humans can recieve it regaurdless of their blood type with out ill effects , yet a zero type recipiants will have severe reactions to any other blood typing . Another important example is a zero type blood mother cannot carry a child of any other blood type other than zero , her body will reject it . Ocassionally the mother may carry to term with anti rejection medication . This is a common cause of miscarriages and is not spoken of outside the medical fraternity . A mother of any blood type can carry a zero type child without rejection .

Physically these people look just like humans of all other blood types , yet they don't share a ancestor .

OK Anyone ???????????????

Not that I would do it. Maybe some gay guy would be more willing, but just pull down your pants and wait... and wait. A real alien will not be able to take the suspense for long and he will crack under pressure and try to anal probe you. That's how you can tell!

Like this, watch 8:00-8:45:

Well, if I saw an alien in the back yard, I think I'd get out my old Gerber BMF and test whether they're an alien by checking out their superior healing abilities.

If it can survive a power-stob with a BMF it's GOT to be an alien - case closed.

reply to post by Bedlam
OMG! that is sick!

Let me show you a problem i have describing aliens in my room. There is a picture frame on the wall, 14X20" with aliens to the right of it. How would you describe this "alien" if you needed to? These entities are totally alien, no body, no blood, no dna. They are not visible nor can they be touched unless they allow it. One point i want to emphasize, they can be photographed with digital cameras.

[edit on 113030p://pm3021 by debris765nju]

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


good thread, i can see that our earlier discussion and those other threads have inspired you well, im impressed! star and flag for you.

but on the topic at hand, i think people would accept something to be alien without the need for much testing if they could see it with their own eyes, see it was intelligent and it had a spaceship, now proving that a video or photo of something is alien is a totally different matter! and like i said before is almost impossible and would have to be a close up and clear video of an unknown craft landing and aliens getting out!!!. just a video of a faraway or fuzzy object or a faraway or fuzzy creature is never going to prove anything because they are too eary to fake and also could be anything !!!.

thanks

rich

How would I prove it's an alien? Simple, I would take it's word for it. I usually trust anyone I just met until they give me a reason not to. I can't imagine that something would traverse the universe just to land in my back yard and lie to me.

But seriously, how could it be proven it is not an alien? Well, the scientific method comes to mind.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


If its biology is entirely alien to anything that we know of on Earth. For instance if we found a different molecule in the nucleus of its cells other than DNA. Its physiology, elemental make-up, internal chemical processes, etc would all help.

If we ran into an alien that evolved on a VERY earth-like planet where evolution took a similar turn to our own to create something humanoid (like the classic Gray alien) we would have a very hard time proving it was an alien. Of course if the alien could ferry us to its home-world and show us evidence of its own evolutionary ancestry on said planet it'd be much easier. Also I think the lack of any known ancestor on Earth to such a creature would suggest its alien origins. All organisms currently living on planet Earth have biological "relatives" either living or present in the fossil record - if this being didn't have anywhere to fit in our evolutionary history that would support the conclusion that it evolved off of Earth.

You're right though it would be a tough call and it would likely take lot's of scientists years and years of research to come to the consensus that it is an alien life form.