A crackpot theory on ancient Egypt.

reply to post by tooo many pills

Perhaps modern ramp technology would suffice, although I doubt that was how it was done in ancient times given that the mass of fill required would have been more than the entire pyramid.

I've seen an animated concept of the spiral method, which seems plausible but I think again the mass of the fill for it would outweigh the main structure.

Yes tower cranes could do the job, but again there would have to be a lot of them working in a synchronised way.. big headache for the one in charge of that. Wind speeds are a major safety factor with high-rise crane work too so that they have to shut down and and then allowed to move with the wind like the arrow on an old style weather vane.

Some time back I read about the water pump theory.. can't remember the details but at the time it seemed very plausible to me. Moreso than any other theory we currently have on how the edifices were constructed.

Also, I remember somewhere reading that sound-levitation may have been a viable method, but the sound back in those times was created from spinning a sea-shell type of thing on the end of rope, so I don't think that would have provided the right sort of resonance to lift a 2 ton block. But, since they did use counter-weighted "power drills" based on something similar to how we can start a fire using a bow on an upright stick, I think that if Egyptians did build these then they had an awesome ability to think outside of the square.

The pyramids are still an amazing feat even by today's standards, however they could definitely be replicated and improved upon with today's technology. If the Egyptians built them by themselves that's incredible, if they had otherworldly help that would be even cooler. I have a feeling we will never know the whole truth, or some people at the top are hiding it from us. Which is messed up but I'd still like to know the truth either way.

I'm in complete agreement with you there.

Some Facts About The Great Pyramid:

"The massive lime stones for the Great Pyramid were quarried over 600 miles away. These stones were cut with such precision that, thousands of years later, you cannot fit a credit card between the joints.

The Great Pyramid is 451 feet high and consists of 2.3 million blocks weighing anywhere from two and a half to fifteen tons each.

It is thought that the Great Pyramid was constructed in 23 years. To lay this many blocks in this time frame, working 7 days a week, would have required that a block be placed every 2 and a half minutes. A multi-ton block placed every two and one half minutes, 7 days a week for 23 years; could we even do that today?

Oddly enough, it is the facts we do know, like these and others, which generate most of the mysteries that surround the Great Pyramid."

Great Pyramid

Long story short. To lay 2,300,000 blocks, weighing between 2.5 and 15 tons each in 23 years you would have to place them once every 2.5 minutes.

Not really sure current theories of ramps and planks support that...

[edit on 11-3-2010 by Smell The Roses]

reply to post by tooo many pills
Hiya TMPs,

There's no real evidence that the Egyptians had cranes although A-frames were used to some degree. The most widely accepted theory is still ramps. The idea is laughed at by the guys that write the 'lost mystery' websites and books. There are at least two good reasons for this:

*They haven't studied Egypt and focus only Khufu's Pyramid
*They prefer the readers to believe that man can't build them

It's in their interests to find gaps in evidence and lever their own ideas in there. If their ideas were seen as just imagination....who'd keep reading them?

The reason for believing the Egyptians used ramps to construct the GP is that they used ramps to build previous pyramids. The Meidum Pyramid (false pyramid) and Pyramid of Senusret used ramps in the construction. Studies have found evidence for spiral, interior, step, linear, reversing and zig-zag ramps at other sites too.

In recent years, evidence for the ramp used to construct the GP has also been found...

III. 2. The Discovery of the Ramp.

During the work of relocating the Sound and Light Show cables at Giza, we were able to excavate their route beginning at the Southwest of the Great Pyramid. Also at this time we started the re-excavation of the cemetery GIS and the restoration of the tombs there. As was discussed above the only possible side for the erection of the ramp during the reign of Khufu was the South side. The ramp was constructed of limestone chips, gypsum, and a calcareous clay called Tafla. Due to the hardiness of the construction materials what remains of the ramp, after the Egyptians removed it to build the tombs of GIS, should still exist on the South side. We started to remove sand for the erection of the cables North of the paved road and South of the pyramid. During the work we found a big part of the ramp used to transport the stones from the quarry to the pyramid base. This part of the ramp consisted of two walls built of stone rubble and mixed with Tafla. The area in between was filled with sand and gypsum forming the bulk of the ramp.

Pyramid construction...more here.

I'm not sure if it was you or another member that queried the pyramids 'sinking' into the sand and mysteriously staying aloft? The whole Giza complex is built on limestone bedrock. The Sphinx is carved directly from a bedrock outcrop and represents three layers of limestone.

Another member shares the popular idea of the 'lost civilization' websites...the GP was 'found.' Or perhaps they built it first and all other pyramids got worse? There is demonstrable linear evolution of the pyramid construction from (loosely) mastaba> Djoser>Sneferu>Khufu. The pyramids are identified by Egyptian records, adjacent complexes and builder's markings amongst others. I mentioned in an eralier post about the 'King Lists.' This is one...Abydos King List.

The Abydos King List, also called the Abydos Table is a list of the names of seventy-six kings and pharaohs of Ancient Egypt, found on the walls of the Temple of Seti I at Abydos, Egypt. It consists of three rows of thirty-eight cartouches on each row. The upper two rows contain names of the kings, while the third row merely repeats Seti I's throne name and praenomen.

reply to post by Kandinsky

Don't know yet if anyone has, but thank you for supplying the links to some most interesting reading.

One of the great things about being open to new material is that we can adjust our opinions based on the new evidence as it arises. It seems for me personally, that as I get older and more information comes to light my earlier understandings or rebellious thoughts can grow and change with me.

Thank you for all your efforts to share with us.

I am enjoying the reading guys so keep it up. Hate to kill my own thread but if the egyptians did build these structures then they would of used something such as this technique.

www.youtube.com...

I still believe they would have had to have some help in acquiring the necessary knowledge to build these. The above video is quite astonishing though.

I don't think you give the ancients enough credit here.. By help, do you mean aliens? There are ancient massive structures all over the planet, so that pretty much proves that our ancestors knew a thing or two about construction. The great pyramid is pretty impressive, but I would apply occam's razor as to how they were constructed... ramps, levers, sleds, rollers and alot of back breaking labor.

People always get caught up in amazement over the construction of large structures, "How did they do that??". But fact is, the planet has many impressive structures. The pyramids in mexico are not as massive, but some of those stones are equally huge, with remarkable etching. Those heavy rocks were simply building material of that era because they did not have glass and steel. There are other examples of huge stone construction in other parts of the world, so equally sophisticated construction knowledge existed throughout the world.

Could the Egyptians have *really* build this? Well... the evidence is there that they did quarry with tools, and set this stone. Maybe they had help, maybe not. And I am referring to slaves here. Believing an alien race help is bit of a stretch for me. If the hieroglyphs show us a UFO or something, it would be more compelling to leap to that conclusion. If I ever encounter an alien, I will ask them.

As far as that pyramid being perfectly aligned with the center of earth... Now that is a new one. I saw on Discovery channel that it was aligned with celestial bodies... Mizar, Kochab or whatever pole star they used during the construction. what are we saying here? The Giza plateau is coincidentally in the center of the earth? I can ya that there is no correlation to the center of that map projection and as far as it dividing equal landmass.... I think is just highly speculative and you would have to put a pretty big margin of error onto any measurement along those lines. There is no way the lat/lon placement of the pyramid was based on parameters where the architect computed global landmass. There would have been no way for ancient Egyptians to survey continental landmass, so that theory is crap.

The 3 pyramids are aligned north-south, with their sides point to the 4 cardinal points of the compass and they aligned very closely in relationship with one another. It has been noted that the surveys of the older pyramids had more errors and got progressively better and the Great Pyramid being the pinnacle achievement has least number of errors. There is alot of speculation about the Great Pyramids placement at 29.9808 N, which is only 01' 09" (2125m) south of 30 degrees north lat, but I'd say it is coincidental. There has been a ton of research of the placements of Earths major monuments and landmarks over many decades and while the ancient survey precision is impressive, it is nothing compared to today's technology. There have been many authors who try to attribute significance of placement which is typically sensationalized to support one theory or another. The only reason I chose to comment on it is because of the celestial alignment theory that aired on Discovery channel which is plausible, but it is really hard to even speculate because the stars have moved quite a bit in 5000 years.

reply to post by Kandinsky


I don't know if this is what you were really getting at, but I wasn't trying to say the ancient Egyptians used cranes or ramps.

I was trying to prove a point that we could rebuild pyramids because Tayesin said something along the lones of, "Our mobile cranes could never lift the blocks to the very top of the pyramid," which is true.

So I said we could simply use a ramp or build the pyramid in spirals just to be able to only use mobile cranes for the entire reconstruction.

Either way, good information and point of view.

reply to post by Tayesin

Don't know yet if anyone has, but thank you for supplying the links to some most interesting reading. One of the great things about being open to new material is that we can adjust our opinions based on the new evidence as it arises. It seems for me personally, that as I get older and more information comes to light my earlier understandings or rebellious thoughts can grow and change with me.

Thanks for the sentiment...much appreciated. I used to be more persuaded by the Daniken books than the experts. Over time, I find the experts far more fascinating....and the incredible extent of the data they use to form conclusions makes good reading.

I stopped posting links recently after realising that some members make daft claims without reading for themselves. Why then, should others do their research for them? If challenged, there are sources for my claims.

reply to post by tooo many pills

I don't know if this is what you were really getting at, but I wasn't trying to say the ancient Egyptians used cranes or ramps.

Sorry, it was a ten-minute post and ended up in reply to you by mistake.