Will Some Of The Governors Secede From The USA?

To the citizens of the states that want to secede..........

You are going to need a passport and plenty of money if you want to visit relatives, go skiing, gamble, if you want to visit my state.

If you secede........do you think that perhaps your travel outside your state might be limited? Are you ready to pay a special fee to get your mail that comes from outside your state? Tariffs and import duties?

All this talk of session is just adolescent bluster and macho talk. It won't happen. But if it does; be prepared to pay for it.

And if a majority of rational citizens realize the folly of session and reject it will you just STFU.



[edit on 19-2-2010 by whaaa]

I'll bite on this and merely express some thoughts on the subject.

If and when any State "might" secede from the USA is a very difficult question because it would be most related to many external variables like whether a Constitutional convention had been convened and so decided or whether it's a unconstitutional Federal move to ban 2d Amendment or other draconian removal of Constitutional freedoms whereby States elect to not comply and threaten the act of succession from the USA unless the Federal government rescinds their point of issue.

Of course the Federal government would have to say "NO" and then it would be the move of the State to decide what to do and how to do it. Succession takes on different parameters for the different States when looked at from perspective of the different States throughout the nation.

Many States like Texas that have healthy economies and a large National Guard and Air Force, energy, freshwater and ocean ports, could in fact do better by keeping all the tax dollars being sent to Washington and instead keep the funds to use in Texas for Texans.

In order for this to happen, States would have to succeed and survive security issues independently through mutual treaties with neighboring States of like mind and of course some type of agreement that allows for commerce and trade to exist. With the creation of such a business State model, I believe it would allow for many States to operate independently and profitably under such agreements. Of course there are those that would not fare so well and that's another deep discussion altogether.

Some States would do better than others because of nature's resources, but I believe clusters of States could in affect overcome bankruptcy and or default which could be key factors in determining succession.

Of course if the federal government wants to use military force and its a civil war against sides which is gained at the end of a barrel to force states to pay or play, then it becomes not about succession but survival until whatever power gets replaced or until the civil war is over. While most States would act even during a civil war, it would be most likely all under emergency procedure until a return to normality exists before the States determined what action each wanted to take or whether to reestablishing an agreeable form of government that the public would support.

At some point it's going to be about whether the States will or will not comply with the many ongoing moves to suspend personal freedoms, free speech, and any number of draconian dictatorship pursuits whereby the Federal government says send us more Tax monies or we will crush you. Even being told to fund unfunded Federal programs will all be about the money. For both sides at some point it will be strictly about the Tax money disguised as necessary patriotic rhetoric. The amounts are going to be astronomical for some states so of course the money is important to a States survival.

Add into the equation of the possible lethal use of UN forces and foreign mercenary military forces to achieve Global Government and there again you get a different scenario that goes off into a plethora of possibilities.

I know this probably hasn't been most helpful, but the question for this posting should be, "What will it take for states to succeed?" How far must Federal government abuse go for States to elect for succession? How differently would the different States be affected by the different types of questions just posed along with other States issues critical to considering succession?

Anyway, it still is a good question. It's just a more multifaceted proposition than most would consider. I wanted to provide some food for thought and for the most part I hope I have done that. Thanks for the posting.

Just tha fact of the discussion of the subject of

SECESSION

might just shift the dangerous course of our ship state
at least a few degrees towards
real and honest democratic and representative reforms, disclosure, and truth.

My 1861 websters has a very interesting definition of the word
apocalypse: It says "When all secrets are revealed"

I sincerely believe that if we just told American's (and the world) the truth... we might rise up to the occasion and begin to cooperate and do our best to deal with the limited resources of spaceship earth.

Secrecy breeds Tyranny

[edit on 19-2-2010 by seataka]

reply to post by AllexxisF1


Its our money why should anyone receive less than what they chip in?

reply to post by AllexxisF1


You should listen to Alex Jones and smoke a bowl . I think you are like borderline democratic wacko crazy buying into im a democrat! damnit! pfft who cares.

Who really cares about red and blue? i sure don't that it made up # for people like you to believe in.It's gotten the country real far hasn't it?

Borderline broke with peoples false beliefs in politics. You don't have to get creative just read the words in the Constitution and do it. Pretty easy.

If you want to be liberal #ing be liberal if you want to be a democrat be a democrat who cares.



I believe in the Constitution that is it maybe you should do that as well eh?

if one state does it others will follow and possibly form sections under a new flag. im all for it.

Fantasy. The Civil War decided this issue once and for all. It is an illusion that we live as a collection of sovereign states as we did in the early years of the republic. In 1865 we were transformed from a country to a nation, and now the states are nothing but convenient boundaries for the administration of services. Our evolution as a people has been toward more centralization of power, and that will continue.

Wouldn't that new executive order establishing 10-Regions of control further complicate the matter?

Seems to me that technically we no longer existed as the 50 United States after that,but rather Ten.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


just do what the federals did, make thier own money. tho federal law makes it illegal to succeed, that really doesnt matter for if a state does so it would no longer consider itself under said federal law, thereby making the law null and void really unless of course the federals regained control.

id be all for states like texas and vermont, who seem to be the leaders in this state succession movement, to split from washignton d.c., it would be interesting to see what would rise from the ashes of the current state.

A 2008 Zogby poll commissioned by the Middlebury Institute, a think tank studying “separatism, secession, and self-determination," indicated that that 22 percent of Americans feel “any state or region has the right to peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic.” More than 18 percent told pollsters that they “would support a secessionist effort in my state.” That’s about one in every five people.

www.countercurrents.org...
good editorial piece from today i found discussing this...

Did you not get the memo from the supreme court saying there is no right of secession ? Lol i couldnt stop laughing when i read the article

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

I have to honestly say I find this idea ridiculous.

There was another time when this idea was thought to be "ridiculous." Lincoln's victory in the presidential election of 1860 triggered South Carolina's secession from the Union. By February 1861, six more Southern states had seceded. On February 7, the seven states adopted a provisional Constitution for the Confederate States of America and established their capital at Montgomery, Alabama. The pre-war February peace conference of 1861 met in Washington, as one last attempt to avoid war; it failed. The remaining Southern States as yet remained in the Union. Confederate forces seized all but three federal forts within their boundaries (they did not take Fort Sumter); President Buchanan made no military response, but governors in Massachusetts, New York and Pennsylvania began secretly buying weapons and training militia units to ready them for immediate action.

On March 4, 1861, Abraham Lincoln was sworn in. In his inaugural address, he argued that the Constitution was a more perfect union than the earlier Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, that it was a binding contract, and called the secession "legally void". He stated he had no intent to invade southern states, but would use force to maintain possession of federal property. His speech closed with a plea for restoration of the bonds of union. The South did send delegations to Washington and offered to pay for the federal properties, but they were turned down. Lincoln refused to negotiate with any Confederate agents because he insisted the Confederacy was not a legitimate government.

On April 12, Confederate soldiers fired upon the Federal troops stationed at Fort Sumter in Charleston, South Carolina, until the troops surrendered. Lincoln called for all of the states in the Union to send troops to recapture the forts and preserve the Union. Most Northerners hoped that a quick victory for the Union would crush the nascent rebellion, and so Lincoln only called for volunteers for 90 days. Four states, Tennessee, Arkansas, North Carolina, and, most importantly, Virginia, which had repeatedly rejected Confederate overtures now decided that they could not send forces against the seceding states. They seceded and to reward Virginia the Confederate capital was moved to Richmond, Virginia, a highly vulnerable location at the end of the supply line. Thus began a very bloody war that lasted 5 years and killed near to a million Americans. History repeats itself, this is a hard fact. To think for even a second that this simply could not happen in this day and age is ignorant thinking.

The Constitution Lincoln was talking about is not the Constitution of today. It has been altered. There are tow Constitutions, one for the rich, and one for the poor.
America’s Two Constitutions (One for the Rich, One for the Poor)
Didn't know that one, did you? The United States is fast becoming two countries. Blue and Red, I don't really care what colors are assigned to the two sides, but even in this very forum, in the Joe Stack threads there is a clear division of thought. I cannot say when America will implode, but I do see that this is inevitable. 37 Stares are now filing for 10 Amendment rights under the Constitution, and some States are openly talking about secession.
The question actually comes down to this: do you, as an individual, want to live as a free man or free woman in a free country or as a subject in a socialistic or fascist society?
Do you want to build your personal wealth and pay taxes to a government that performs only those powers and duties that We The People allow them to do through the Constitution? Or do you want to become nothing more than a cash cow for a government that levies heavy taxes to "redistribute" income from whom the government considers to be "rich" to those who consider to be "poor" and paying for unconstitutional handout programs that benefits certain "protected classes" of people? That, Friend, is the question. This is our country, and our government. Let us make this government as we wish it to be.

and what will those states do for protection, money, and welfare?

Face it, seceding is not an option.

Any idiot governor who claims otherwise is just being a moronic blow hole. And the citizens OF that state should impeach him (if they were smart enough)

[edit on 20-2-2010 by Snarf]

What's funny to me is that there are people in this country that just BEG for war! They so much want to start a civil war in this country they can taste the black powder.

Maybe they are bored, sick of talking, want to take action, got a speeding ticket and want to take the cop down that gave it to them, or got grounded by mommy and want to rage against the machine.



So they come onto sites like ATS and "Hypothetically discuss" secession and civil war as if it would be the best thing ever. I think these people need to back away from the Xbox for a while.

Originally posted by whatukno
What's funny to me is that there are people in this country that just BEG for war! They so much want to start a civil war in this country they can taste the black powder.

Maybe they are bored, sick of talking, want to take action, got a speeding ticket and want to take the cop down that gave it to them, or got grounded by mommy and want to rage against the machine.

So they come onto sites like ATS and "Hypothetically discuss" secession and civil war as if it would be the best thing ever. I think these people need to back away from the Xbox for a while.

I know, it's impossible that anyone would think our perfect country has disregarded basic liberties, manipulated the masses for the agenda and interests of a few, and overall has no care for the average citizen anymore. It's impossible anyone who lives under those situations would want to leave such situations. #ing nutjobs.

reply to post by SpectreDC


These wackjobs don't care about liberty, they just want to start blowing away cops cause they think it's cool! They care about liberty for themselves and screw anyone else.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by SpectreDC

 

These wackjobs don't care about liberty, they just want to start blowing away cops cause they think it's cool! They care about liberty for themselves and screw anyone else.

1/10. Next time base your argument out of facts and not far out assumptions.

Or just keep being a prick and putting people into little crowds of generalization. It makes no difference to me; it's your image, not mine.

On the subject of state secession, while I believe some have legitimate reasons for wanting to remove themselves from the union. I do believe the majority of those that call for war are people who have no concept of what that war would be like.

I do believe that the majority see an opportunity to just start killing people, for some sick reason it seems that they think it's some sort of game and it's ok.

But for those that believe that it is a state right, I think this man Ron Paul puts it very nicely.



He is quite correct, it is a state right, but it is a right that a state would have to fight for, literally.

Now, if you are one of those people that would like to leave the United States, ask yourself some serious questions. Why do you want to do it? Do you feel that the United States is beyond repair? Who's fault is it that the United States has gotten to this point?

You have to be brutally honest with yourself to ask these questions if you want the real answer. If you aren't truly honest with yourself on what you want and what this country needs than how can you expect anyone else to follow your cause?

But like I said, some just want to start killing. I think this is the majority, they are pissed off at the government because it's a popular thing to be right now, and they just want to see some people die. They have absolutely zero interest in freedom beyond their own little habitat. They don't care about justice for all, they don't care about liberty for all, they are self centered little brats who are dangerous because all they want to do is cause other people harm.

Governors don't even have the gonads to take on the federal governments over article 10 violations.

If they can't handle that fight, there isn't any reason to believe they will secede.