Exising Month to Month Home Sales Fall By Largest Amount Ever in December

For those thinking that things are getting much better and are sustainable....

Reuters

The National Association of Realtors said existing home sales fell 16.7 percent to an annual rate of 5.45 million units in December, a sharper decline than the 5.90 million unit pace expected.

And before people start saying 'oh its December' I remind you we have a December every year. Through ever recession and down turn, the month to month has never been this bad. This number was a huge miss, coming in more than 500,000 home sales SHORT of expectations.




[edit on 25-1-2010 by johnny2127]

Wow... Perhaps someone could clarify something for us concerning this data. Is this number more of a lagging indicator in that it is published in December but really is more of a reflection of Sept/Oct? If true, we could certainly expect to see this number continue to drop as it shows sales around the time Obama extended the home credit.

Originally posted by Bass9
Wow... Perhaps someone could clarify something for us concerning this data. Is this number more of a lagging indicator in that it is published in December but really is more of a reflection of Sept/Oct? If true, we could certainly expect to see this number continue to drop as it shows sales around the time Obama extended the home credit.

Some will argue its leading, while others say lagging. Most economists view the June-November numbers as inflated and having 'stolen' sales from future months as people rushed to buy while there was the sales credit. Hence, many feel future expectations will lag as sales that would have taken place have already taken place. However, that being said, expect January to show an increase in existing home sales from a number that bad. What you will need for a true leading indicator would be drop in 3 of 4 months, or for the quarter in other words.

This indicator more just fulls those that believe what I sated above about home sales being stolen from future months. Much as future auto sales were stolen during cash for clunkers and really just caused a one month bump for a few billion dollars.

Wow good find.

The Credit lift is absurd and it reeks of BS.

If the Banks wanted to help people, they would;

1) stop kicking people out of their homes.

2) give them the money they paid into the mortgage back.

3) actually lend credit to people.

4) change the way people buy homes, ASK FOR A FREAKEN RECIEPT, IS IT REALLY TO HARD!? (that is for people buying the home, you sign a piece of paper and you should ask for a recipt.)

5) well, the system is corrupt, you loose everything the Elite take everything. Something for nothing..

The Real-estate Market, is a joke and makes me sick to my stomach not because it is real-estate, but because it is just so corrupt...

reply to post by Quickfix

1) stop kicking people out of their homes.

People would stop paying their mortgage? If the banks didn't foreclose, I'd go buy a house and never pay my mortgage.

2) give them the money they paid into the mortgage back.

???? ... Banks are for profit institutions.. I cannot fathom how this would be beneficial to anyone.. except the home owner of course..

3) actually lend credit to people.

With unemployment through the roof and inflation eating away at the debt to income ratio, I think it's more a matter of there isn't enough good quality lendees left? Lending credit to people who cannot pay kinda created this mess..

ASK FOR A FREAKEN RECIEPT, IS IT REALLY TO HARD!?

You receive a Deed. I don't understand what the receipt would be for? If your getting a loan, you receive a bank note.

5) well, the system is corrupt, you loose everything the Elite take everything. Something for nothing..

The banks suck. I agree. However, the people created the problem, NOT the banks.. the banks are only reactionary to what the people demand.. the waitress and the janitor making 50k a year combined didn't need a 600k house.. they wanted it, they got it, then got kicked out. Look at the average persons credit card debt, car debt, home debts, etc, etc, etc .. have a credit card to every store they go to.. it's frikin ridiculous, it's stupidity! The people deserve what they get.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Do you have any idea how the Centeral Banking System, even works?

The BANKS ARE STEALING MONEY AND KICKING PEOPLE OUT.

You cannot Kick someone out of their home and Steal their money. They can't have both, it is unethical.

There is a Law on Ethics which thanks to the Free Masons is pretty much gone.

The Problem is SYSTEMIC (meaning built into the system).

IDK what else I can say to sway you...

Originally posted by Rockpuck

The banks suck. I agree.

Yes they did, when the banking system took hold of this nations economy they created an economy Dependant of credit and loans knowing that our nation was no longer a productive nation, they used propaganda and predatory practices to lure the consumer into their dirty goods.

Still they went ahead and crashed the biggest economy in the world linked globally and then sat back while they pay and bought for politicians bailed them out with tax payer money.

Banks are the cause our nation and the people are in the mess they are now.

Still while the big too fail supposedly paid back bailout money they still getting tax payer money on almost zero interest loans, subsidies and those they don't have to pay any time soon if ever.

Meanwhile they are still creating the same garbage unregulated packages to sell abroad because they know the tax payer will be there again when they fail.

And they don't give a darn thing back to the same tax payer that help them to keep their wealth and pay themselves outrageous bonuses.

While the rest of the nation falls in decay they are booming

You guys are missing the ENTIRE point................Home sales are down so much because the government's 8,000 dollar tax credit expired (recently renewed until April). It's a PERFECT example of how the government has been propping up so much of the economy and that is the only reason the economy is "recovering" or not collapsing in other words. This is one reason why 2010 is going to be worse than last year. The government is running record deficits and they cannot continue with these bailouts and real estate subsidies. And now they are talking about raising taxes on EVERYONE. Raising taxes is going to absolutely without a doubt create a depression if you don't believe we aren't already in one. If the economy was left to its own devices and chips were let to fall where they may this recession would actually be residing. But the government wants to try to soften the landing but is only prolonging the inevitable and making things worse.

[edit on 25-1-2010 by Zosynspiracy]

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


The tax debate was one of the propagandas behind the health care bill if passed, while I have no doubt that taxes are going up and nothing but up, our two parties of clowns keep using the no tax rhetoric to lure the voters.

reply to post by marg6043



Of course they do. Nobama's biggest campaign promise was no taxes on the middle class. I'm frankly pissed off as an employed American that my taxes are going to go up considerably. I'm against the wars, I'm against the bailouts and I'm sick of all this government spending. They are gutting the US economy and doing a damn good job of it.


[edit on 25-1-2010 by Zosynspiracy]

reply to post by Quickfix

You cannot Kick someone out of their home and Steal their money.

YOU DO NOT OWN YOUR HOME IF YOU HAVE A MORTGAGE!!!!

It's not yours. It never was. In most cases, it never will be. You are, in a sense, rent-to-own'n it from the bank. The BANK owns your home. It's THEIR property, THEY bought it, YOU are a "partial investor" .. You keep the appreciated value, the bank keeps the note.

You own your home when you have the deed in hand. Until then, it's not yours. If you cannot pay your mortgage, you should be foreclosed.

Yes, I know all about centralized banking. In fact, not to pat myself on the back or anything, I know more about economics than most.. more so than you perhaps.

I don't believe in unethical practices, I am against mortgages (and all forms of usury) however.. I am a firm believer in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. The Governments nor the banks should assist homeowners in any way.. if you don't want to be foreclosed, don't take a mortgage. That simple. Sorry to all those who lost their homes in this economy, but the simple fact of the matter is .. it's capitalism, you win some you loose some. I will never feel sorry that someone lost their home and blamed the bank: It was YOUR choice.

marg6043

I love you Marge .. but..

Still they went ahead and crashed the biggest economy in the world linked globally and then sat back while they pay and bought for politicians bailed them out with tax payer money.

WE LET THEM DO IT!!!!!

They took advantage of us, yes... but we LET them.. we are a complacent people and we deserve what we get. This is the failure of Capitalism and Democracy .. if you cannot stand up to defend your self, you deserve the punishment and hell that follows.

It's not the banks fault.. it's not the Governments fault: It's OUR fault.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I love you too!!!!!!, you deserve a star, yes you are right we don't own our homes if we pay a mortgage, then once you pay the mortgage the government own your property.

The time when home owners were able to own something are gone, that was during my parents time, they own their home fair and square, with not property taxes and anything attach to it, but they are the lucky ones, my husband parents were in that same group.

Then again if eminent domain hit them then they never owned anything at all.

Anyway, yes Capitalism is failing the regular people while enriching those on the top.

Then when somebody mention to regulate the big fat rats the propaganda against socialism does its magic and most people fall for it without even trying to figure out what is all about.

We are truly in deep crap in this nation and big money interest is paying very handsomely to keep the people stupid, confuse and fighting with each other.

[edit on 25-1-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043

The time when home owners were able to own something are gone, that was during my parents time, they own their home fair and square, with not property taxes and anything attach to it, but they are the lucky ones, my husband parents were in that same group.

But who's fault is that? Who's fault is it that they don't own their homes? If you bought your first house in 1986 (year I was born) for $50,000 (how much me parents house cost when they bought it, when I was born) by 2009 it's worth $200,000+ easily.. they still live in the same house, they have been for 23 years, they should be at the last stretch of their mortgage.. in fact, the last 7 years on a 50k mortgage could be paid off in one simple lump sum right? Why then do they owe more on the house than what it's worth now? First mortgage, second mortgage, dear god, I believe a third mortgage..

People live beyond their means, they don't pay off their homes because they don't want to.. when they gain equity (wealth) they spend it (credit) and pay interest on their own equity: STUPIDITY!! It's gotten so far out of control that new comers to the market, for the first time EVER, literally have to buy a house underwater (negative equity).

If 80% of your wealth originates through real estate (equity), how does one acquire it to begin with? It depends on the average cost per house to income levels.. right now, house prices are astronomically high compared to income, ESPECIALLY intro income earners .. for instance, houses in my area average $250,000 for a "beginner" lower mid class home. No one my age makes enough to realistically afford that, we sure as hell cannot buy it in cash, and we sometimes spend years coming up with 10%-20% down.. So we do what our parents teach us is right: Interest only loans, ARM's, Teaser Loans, 0% Loans, FHA Loans (higher interest buy 3% down) Then you add PMI (mortgage insurance) and it's like #!% .. how the hell are we supposed to cope with this?

But who created that scenario? Every generation born after the WWI .. I say, WWI, because after WWI the economy did not see the same gross economic boom as after WWII, WWII vets came home to a super power that sat on top of the World.. we literally rebuilt everything .. people extended not only their cash, but their equity and their credit.. and now we have to pay for it. Not for abuse by banks, or by Government, both of which are criminal in their own rights, but because of our habitual way of wanting everything for nothing, to live like kings and queens when really we live so far beyond our means, the slightest hiccup in our income and our world comes crashing down.

Maybe it will be lesson, though I doubt it... we won't see the errors of our way until the economy is destroyed by our greedy impulsive life style choices.. until the country fractures and we get tossed into a living hell.

Anyway, yes Capitalism is failing the regular people while enriching those on the top.

Capitalism can be summed up like this: There always has to be someone to clean the toilet.

Does that person work hard? Yes. More than a CEO? Perhaps, in a different kinda way. Does that person deserve a McMansion?

No.

Capitalism failed because it was apart of a Democratic process.. the Republic failed for the same reason, Republics will never remain indefinite so long as it's attached to a Democratic process.. Democracy demands regulation and control, voted officially never meet to say "well everything seems fine, see yall next summer!" .. No .. They find things that are wrong, regulate them.. they find potential laws, and enforce them.. because Capitalism is regulated, enforced, molded by a Democratic process... some would say Capitalism invites mega banks and assist the super wealthy: WRONG

If we had a Capitalistic system, every major bank would have failed, every wealthy CEO would have been downgraded to destitute poverty over night, the captains of industry would have been rendering homeless and another generation would have taken up the seats of economic power, and we would have seen a new era. We would have been better, stronger, and more versatile.

Now we are nothing more than an animated corpse injected with steroids, trying to run a system that no longer functions in a World that no longer needs us.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I agree with much of what you say BUT and you need to remember this...........our greed, consumerism, and mcmansion lifestyles are also responsible for bringing a HUGE amount of prosperity to much of the rest of the world for the last 60 years. Do you think the Chinese, Indians, Europeans or South Americans are any less driven materialistically than we are? Are you saying Americans are the most materialistic people in the world? Because if you believe that you are completely wrong.

It's not that Americans live beyond their means...........there is ENOUGH wealth in this country for every man woman and child to own a home, a car, and be well fed and well taken care of healthwise. The problem is our government and the rich have been siphoning off our assets/wealth and divyying it all up for themselves. Trickle down economics was one big scam. Yes younger generations have a lot more "stuff" than my grandparent's generation. But my grandmother also never worked. My wife works her butt off. So we deserve a bigger house if we work for it. We deserve nice things IF we work for them. We are also collectively a lot more enivornmentally friendly despite all the pollution that comes with our material consumption. Every generation has its problems. But past generations had a much less intrusive and less corrupt government. It was smaller as well. Government is THE biggest obstacle standing in the way of American prosperity. The second biggest obstacle is the corporation, (multinationals especially). And the sad thing is BOTH of them only care about each other because they support and manipulate each other at our expense.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well you are pretty younger than me actually you are in my children age,

my parents, bought their homes during the sixties, so my husband parents too, that was when banks were not monopolies or a multi billion dollar corporation, they were owned by local people and run by local people for the people.

My husbands parents and my parents spend less than 10,000 dollars on their homes both in the same town, never took credit on the home and neither second mortgages.

So when I said they owned their home fair and square that is what I mean, not attachments, my parents and my husband parents sit on nothing but equity, so you can imagine how much money those two homes are value now even with the recession and the devaluation of home, hundred of thousands of dollars, because they have not attachments.

Banks made a big deal when started to sell people their own home equalities for cash.

Today is nothing compare to when my parents acquired their first home.

reply to post by marg6043


Considering the decline of the US Dollar in comparison to the value of property, the value of property has not changed much (depending on area of course) .. Real Estate is like Gold.. We don't say "Well my grand father could buy an oz of Gold for $2" .. because today, the value of the US Dollar and Gold is the same.. it represents anyways, the same value of the US Dollar.. a Dollar has been watered down to $1,200 an oz of Gold, Real Estate is now measured in the 100k's, not the 10k's..

The guy above you mentioned the same flawed philosophy: our frivolous life style created the prosperity in America......

Except that, relating Dollar to Dollar ... we are not rich. At all. In fact, most of us are dirt poor.. we have the creature comforts made from slave labor, sure.. but wealth wise, relating to past generations, we have very little. Our economy has lasted this long because some geniuses who created the Federal Reserve found a way to hold the World hostage with our Dollar, then give our people the impressions of wealth, while stealing it from them. And we fell for it.

If I had $10,000 USD to put a down payment on a house.. in 1929 that would have meant I had: $400.

Based on 96% decline of USD per 1929-2010. 26% decline from 1999-2010.

HOW RICH AM I?

PS .. to put that into comparison .. $200 bought you a brand new car. And I don't have 10k in my bank account. That makes me a bum. A bum in 1929 .. wow, I feel good....

[edit on 1/25/2010 by Rockpuck]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

already bein discussed here. even tho the article has been dead in the water all day, guess i should have chosen a better headline

reply to post by TheCoffinman


This thread was actually started 2hrs before yours.