British Ministry of Defense reports huge diamond shaped object over Scotland.

Originally posted by azzllin
Great case, and IMO debunking is not possible at all, have seen people try and fail, I even had a long hard try, this is one of those cases, where those who accept the events talk about it and wait for more information, and those who refuse to accept it, avoid it like the plague, only a few cases are like that.

Well done on the investigative work .

I don't think it's so much that people accept it or reject it, it's just that from an investigative, or sceptical angle there's not much to go on. I think, from what I read in the FOIA files, IIRC, DI5(MOD) were fairly convinced the picture was real, and likely US. If I was right in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A tantalising bit is that the photos were reported to DI5, via The Daily Record (Scottish). Even if the negatives were taken by the MOD, it's not unreasonable that they made copies. Most newspapers had pretty good photolabs back then. If the Daily Record made a copy it's potentially rotting away in storage with other photographs/negatives.

At the time its publication could have been blocked under the standing D-Notices 1 & 2 (military operations & nuclear/non-nuclear equipment), especially back then.

A FOIA request to find out whether a D-Notice was issued (they kept records in the form of minutes) would indicate whether the photo was 'officially' (in as much as technically D/DA notices are voluntary) covered up.

The reason, as a sceptic, I don't comment on threads like this much is that I don't feel like I've got much to add, either to rebut or in support .

Ive found one foto to date and report here:- news.stv.tv...


or photo here :- files.abovetopsecret.com...


This may be of some interest also :-

www.scotclans.com...


[edit on 113131p://12America/Chicago19 by ProRipp]


[edit on 123131p://12America/Chicago19 by ProRipp]

The photographs seem to be removed or hidden from everywher ! However i know where they went ! I found this !

The most intriguing linked incident occurred at 9pm on 4 August 1990, at Calvine, a remote hamlet on the A9 near Pitlochry in Scotland. According to the scanty details released by the MoD, two men saw a large diamond-shaped UFO hovering for about ten minutes before it disappeared upwards at great speed. During the incident military aircraft were seen making a number of low-level passes. One of the men had a camera and obtained six colour photographs showing both the UFO and at least one of the jets. The negatives were sent to the RAF Pitreavie and the Scottish Daily Record who passed them to the MoD.

The images were scrutinised by the MoD who identified the jet as a Harrier. They were also able to spot a second Harrier, but were unable to identify the large object clearly visible on the prints. Two poor quality photocopies can be seen in the file DEFE 31/180/1 on pages 37-38.


More of the report can be read here:-drdavidclarke.blogspot.com...

I'm going to keep searching

Here is an email i just received from Nick Pope concerning the photographs from Pitlochry UFO incident which I find interesting ! He also included some links to sites ! He was very quick to get back to me (i emailed him late last night) and was quite helpful ! In it he provides the MOD File numbers regarding the case ! In my email to him I asked him if he had actually viewed the photographs ! :-


RE: Pitlochry UFO Sighting 1990‏
From: Nick Pope (nick@popemod.*********.co.uk)
Sent: 20 December 2009 11:15:19
To: *** ******** ([email protected])
Lee,

The MoD files that contain documents relating to this case have been released and are available at the National Archives. The documents can be found in:

DEFE 24/1940/1 - page 114
DEFE 31/179/1 - pages 157-8
DEFE 31/180 - pages 55-57
DEFE 31/180/1 - pages 37-38

Here are links to a couple of UK newspaper reports about the story:

scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...

news.sky.com... 0903415246529

I saw at least one of the images and indeed an enlarged copy was on my office wall for many years. Sadly, neither MoD nor the newspaper concerned can locate any of the negatives or photographs. Only a couple of poor quality photocopies of some line drawings survive.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope


This is really interesting as he says he had an enlarged copy actually ON his office wall for many years ! It must have been a case that both intrigued him and was important to him !
So where are these photographs now ? It seems whoever it is doesn't want them seen ? Very strange indeed !

[edit on 063131p://12America/Chicago20 by ProRipp]

reply to post by ProRipp


Good work.

I downloaded the FOIA files as they released them and annoyingly I've got DEFE 31/180 but not any with the additional /1. So I've not got DEFE 31/180/1 or the others with the /1 at the the end (checked inside the PDFs to see if they're mislabled). Not sure if they've still got it on the FOIA website -can't access their site (they remove them after a set period then charge a small fee), so I've RapidShared DEFE 31/180 for you here:

rapidshare.com...

I don't buy the newspaper's reply that they've got no idea on the photo. Not because I think they're hiding it, or opposed to its release, but because they probably don't want to spend ages going through photos in storage. The only way that I'd buy that an old school newspaper w/darkrooms (and often photolabs) wouldn't keep a copy is if they were explicitly asked not to by the MOD.

Edit:

It turns out 31/180/1 is in the same file as 31/180/, see below for specifics, I converted the pages from PDF to JPEG and uploaded.

Can't find DEFE 24/1940/1 will check later to see if it's been released. Interestingly David Clarke doesn't reference it but Nick Pope does.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by jackphotohobby]

Managed to find DEFE 31/179/1 & I've extracted pages 157-8 (their anticipated press response - that never materialised):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fa34d4e59a88.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f25050a3e779.jpg[/atsimg]

Will have a look for the other bits later. I'm a little hungover and not yet up-to matching filenames to official filenames .

Sod it, tea can wait, here's DEFE 31/180/1; pages 37-38:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b18e197a1e20.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dbb93f3751d5.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 20-12-2009 by jackphotohobby]

Hey-thats some very interesting reading there guys (and some mighty fine legwork).
Had a quick look around for any further info on the case and all I could find was this MOD reply concerning a request for the images - it rather predictably states that 'the MOD does not produce photographs of UFO sightings'.


As for Mr Pope -heres another very interesting statement he made regarding his work at the MOD:

“On the basis of my offical research and investigation into UFO sightings and reports of alien contact, I am personally convinced that intelligent extraterrestrial are visiting Earth. I say this on the basis of the data available to me at the Ministry of Defense, both in terms of the historic records and the several hundred new cases that I investigated each year.

…There was a hard core of cases that defied any conventional explanation and involved craft capable of speeds and maneuvers beyond the capabilities of our own technology. I was particularly interested in UFO sightings that could be correlated by radar and in reports where the witnesses were military personnel; such cases were directly responsible for my gradual conversion from skeptic to believer.”

Nick Pope - Head of the "UFO desk" at Air Secretariat 2-A, British Ministry of Defence from 1991-1994

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

of course its only a matter of time before the 'experts' find a link in this report to the hoax over Moscow...

then come up with another multi-dimensional time travel hypothesis in conjunction with the strange light phenomenon over Norway earlier...

*grabs a cup of coffee and waits*

This would be so awesome if we had the pics....

Originally posted by Fist_Of_The_North_Star
This would be so awesome if we had the pics....

This is all time consuming stuff, and I have a great deal of admiration for UFOlogists who track this sort of stuff down. I'm not so interested in the photos to bother. Here's what I'm hoping the more methodical and impartial UFOlogists do:

• Use something like Lexis/Nexis to get the list of editors from an incident-contemporary copy of the Scottish Daily Record - or use microfiche records.
  
• Many of those editors will now be retired or have moved on from The Daily Record.
  
• Then track down some of those names (either through the Daily Record, electoral register, the internet, things like 192.com, Equifax etc.) and ask them what happened, to the best of their recollection. Getting too stalkerish would put most people off so maybe Equifax & 192 are a bit creepy.
  

Could be (in fact I'd be willing to bet) their stories diverge from the MODs as relayed to us via FOIA. . Doing that would mean the person(s) who took the photos could be contacted also.

Has to be done responsibly, by level headed people, though. People being heavy handed, or too 'out there' could stop people coming forward if contacted.

Not the sort of thing I'm interested in doing, just adding to the debate, sorry for being a bit of an airmchair critic.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by jackphotohobby]

reply to post by jackphotohobby


I'm still trying to locate the original newspaper reports from the incident and will be contacting the 'local' newspaper in the Pitlochry area which is the Perthshire Advertiser ! If anything 'turns up' it'll appear here !

Did these documents just get released?

I'll never understand why any government would release something like this if they insist upon covering it up. Letting the public in on this event without providing the photographs is red meat to the subject of UFO/ET cover up. Is the British government wanting to perpetuate discord and distrust between itself and a portion of the public? Because that's all that will happen with this information.

Good thread karl i have never heard of this case before very interesting.
As for Nick Pope i think he's very truthful a lot do not like him and think he's trying to cash in and if he had this picture enlarged on his wall well its got to be very good its a shame we will never see it.
S+F

THANKYOU

Originally posted by Frith
Did these documents just get released?

They were released in August i think ! Of course with the MOD UFO Project Office being shut down more and more files are being released ! The documents pertaining to the case and theyre MOD Numbers are in the above email from Nick Pope !

The MOD's UFO Project had also been sent a number of intriguing photos and videos of UFOs, and had the means to have the images enhanced and analysed by various technical specialists. Some intriguing images had arrived via the Scottish Daily Record in 1990, and a poster-sized photograph had been produced from one of the negatives and pinned to my office wall by one of my predecessors. The photograph had been taken in daylight and showed a vast, diamond-shaped UFO, metallic silver in colour, apparently hovering low over the Scottish countryside. The photograph was removed in 1994 by the then head of the division, who had convinced himself that the picture showed a secret prototype aircraft codenamed Aurora - a hypersonic replacement for the SR-71 Blackbird that the US Government denied existed. A question was asked in Parliament in 1996 about the location of this photograph, and the matter has subsequently been raised in a Freedom of Information Act request. Unfortunately, the photograph had disappeared, and could not be located.

No reply yet from the Daily Record, with the holiday season and all I guess it'll take a while.

I wonder who the two witnesses were and what was done to ensure their silence over the years. Pitlochry is a small place, surely someone would still remember the incident and the witnesses?

That David Clarke blog is a good read. Thanks

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Fist_Of_The_North_Star]

Originally posted by cripmeister
No reply yet from the Daily Record, with the holiday season and all I guess it'll take a while.

The MOD have stated that the original negatives of the UFO photos were returned to the Daily Record. If the Daily record says it doesn't have them or won't release them then that is suspicious and would contradict the MOD's story. Why would a newspaper not want to publish such spectacular photographs?