Patterson Bigfoot may be bigger than first thought

reply to post by Kandinsky

The concept of Yeti, Sasquatch, Yowie, Bigfoot and even abominable snowmen is always problematic for me. More so in the heavily populated N America. Primates favor nests and we never find them anywhere. Like bears, they certainly sh~* in the woods, where are the dump traces? Can a 300lb+ adult find up to 4000 calories+ per day, year round? That level of sustenance requires (in the Everglades or Himalayas) a lot of foraging for food. Such movement would be hazardous to discovery by tracks or bumping into people. In winter, tracks are unavoidable. Where are their young and where are their dead? When tracks are found, it's often just a couple of big footprints from a solitary animal. Where are the family units? Big questions and no answers

There's a possibility they are a species of ETs.

"Chico (Venezuela) Dec 10 1954. Having seen a bright object land
near the Trans-Andean Highway, two young men approached
it, found it was shaped like two bowls glued
together, about 3 m diameter. The underside was a
source of fiery light. Four small beings emerged and
attacked them, in an apparent kidnapping attempt.
The dwarfs were extremely strong, their bodies covered
with hair. They fled into the machine, and it took
off."

"Maiquetia Airport (Venezuela) Aug 26 1967. Esteban D. Cova, a
private in the Marines, was relieved of duty at the airport
and returned to his quarters. Then he met an
ugly dwarf, 1 m tall, with a huge head, bulgy eyes, and
a body covered with "hairy stuff or wiry niclal," It
made a deep whistling sound, and Cova felt a prickling
sensation in his body. In perfect Spanish the
creature said: "Won't you come with me? We need
one human being." Cova fainted."

"Montlucon (France) Oct. 12,1954 evening.
A railroad employee, Mr.Laugerc, saw a torpedo-shaped,
metallic craft on theground near a gas-oil tank. An individual
covered with hair was standing nearby, emitting sounds that
were not understood. The witness went to get his friends,
but the thing disappeared in the meantime."
(Source: Passport to Magonia by Jaques Vallee]

Also this excerpt from an interview with Patrick Huyghe, co-author of 'The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials: A Complete Overview of Alien Life Forms Based on Actual Accounts and Sightings' by Patrick Huyghe and Dennis Stacy.

"In the animalian category," continued Patrick, "I have five types, and one of them is the hairy mammalian. Obviously what some people are very familiar with are the Bigfoot-like creatures. Most of the time Bigfoot is not seen in relation to any kind of UFO, [but] there are a few incidents where a normal Bigfoot-type creature is seen in conjunction and proximity with a UFO. One of them took place on October 25, 1973 in Greensburg, Pennsylvania. It was seen by a man named Steven Glosky and a couple of ten year old children. It was a very complicated case that was actually investigated by a psychiatrist named Berthold Schwartz," the author of an important book called UFO Dynamics (Rainbow Books, 1988). Dr. Berthold Schwartz was a guest on 21st Century Radio on 10/18/92."

That's why no remains has so far been found.



[edit on 17-5-2009 by A Conscience]

reply to post by Gemwolf
Good points and well made I still think that if a carcass is ever found, in any world location, the bigfoot, yeti, yowie will be a primate or even hominid. Hominid fossils have been found in Australia and everywhere but America. If they are hominids, possibly they arrived in the same way the other 350 million hominids did...they walked there. In looking for any support for a hominid argument, I found this...Bigfoot Lives: Washington Magazine. Interesting reading. Especially this...

Among the dozens of plaster footprint casts he has collected over the years, Krantz has only a few that carry any significant weight as evidence. Two of them were made from footprints found in 1969 near the town of Bossburg, in northeastern Washington's Colville National Forest.

What makes these tracks so important is a crippling deformity found in the right foot. It has only four toes-the middle one is either missing or somehow raised above the other four, which have spread to fill the gap. More significant is the distortion of the entire foot, which is bent radically inward from the heel.

Krantz calculated the natural adaptations in foot structure and stride necessary to enable a large, heavy animal with such an anatomical deformity to walk. "It was right on," he says. "Such an animal would have had to walk exactly as this one did: stride, angle of foot placement, distribution of weight-it was all exactly as it had to be."

That's a fairly exciting piece of evidence if it's true. Very compelling. We can't rule out a hoaxer's intelligence, but that's setting the bar extremely high indeed. Throughout the thread, I'm not seeking to debunk these possible creatures...just kind of thinking out loud. Sharing ideas and then testing them. I still find it hard to accept that they exist for some of the reasons posted. Likewise, the sightings, descriptions and the cast above can't be dismissed out of hand. It's an enigmatic conundrum

Your example of the platypus is a good one. If it was newly discovered and posted on ATS, I'd be among the first to google the hell out of it in search of evidence. If I remember rightly, when the first descriptions and example were seen at the Natural Museum in London it was laughed at and dismissed. Even now, it seems unlikely. Just a quick nitpick...pandas do eat meat. They're just too bone-idle to catch much of it. I was caught out on a pub quiz with that one.

reply to post by A Conscience
A Chewbacca/ Wookie explanation? It's possible, maybe? Who knows? Is this the source?

I read another explanation that I've been trying to find today without luck. In the theory such sightings of unusual creatures were explained as damons or daemons? Not evil demons, but creatures that shouldn't really be here and leave little solid evidence. Big cats, mothmen and even fairies. It speculated that they somehow appear in this world and vanish back to where they came from.

It's unfounded speculation but goes some way to explaining sightings with evidence. 'Now you see me, now you don't!'

reply to post by Kandinsky


Don't get me wrong. I didn't mean to criticize your post, i.e. your comparison of Bigfoot and Primate "breasts"... I can assure you that there is no doubt in my mind that Bigfoot is a Primate (or a bear species if I was to pick an unlikely candidate) and I'll also be the first to praise the Patterson film as the real deal. All I meant to say was that it's a good idea to look at other primates' breasts and consider it when looking at Bigfoot's "hairy breasts". We just shouldn't accept the resulting answer as a black and white yes or no.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Just a quick nitpick...pandas do eat meat. They're just too bone-idle to catch much of it. I was caught out on a pub quiz with that one.

No argument here. The Panda is indeed of the order Carnivora if you're into scientific names... I used the Panda as an example because it has always (and always will) baffled me that this animal will feed on Bamboo, consuming up 14 kg (30 pounds) in a day... It hardly seems worth it. And it was once such a mighty beast... And now a lazy bum...

reply to post by Kandinsky

A Chewbacca/ Wookie explanation? It's possible, maybe? Who knows? Is this the source?

I read another explanation that I've been trying to find today without luck. In the theory such sightings of unusual creatures were explained as damons or daemons? Not evil demons, but creatures that shouldn't really be here and leave little solid evidence. Big cats, mothmen and even fairies. It speculated that they somehow appear in this world and vanish back to where they came from.

Yep, that's the source. Also I forgot to add the source of my other quotes which I've since edited. Passport to Magonia by Jaques Vallee (excellent book) is where there are many references to fairies, elves, demons, incubi, etc.

Another book Alien Encounters by Chuck Missler/Mark Eastman has a lot more to do with Biblical references, hence demons, angels, etc.

Go to scribd.com where you can read or download the ebook.

reply to post by Kandinsky


I also don't see the men thinking about making Bigfoot a female if they were going to fake it. Especially not in the 1960s, when they did not have the computers and means to examine such footage like there is today.

The breasts and the movement of the creature indicate the footage was not faked. There are claims one of the persons stated the footage was faked, and yet no monkey suit was ever found. One program (on FOX) claimed to have detected a "zipper", but I could not see it when I watched the program.

Debunkers and some skeptics will continually dismiss this footage until a real Sasquatch walks up and looks them in the face.

reply to post by Kandinsky


The North American wilderness in the Western States, Canada, and Alaska is extremely vast. Not only could it support a large population of large primates, but there are hundreds of thousands of square miles untouched by humans. We may have seen it from a satellite, but have yet to set foot in much of Canada and Alaska.

I think people forget how vast the wilderness is. The untouched part is much bigger than Texas and California combined.

reply to post by kidflash2008
Steady on, Kidflash! I'm not debunking the bigfoot at all. If anything, I'm more curious about them than before the thread started. My posts clearly state my mystification. Gotta ask the questions to draw conclusions

Are you sure that there are hundreds and thousands of miles of 'untouched' land? That's a fairly big claim.

We recently discovered a large population of orangutans in an unexplored area of Borneo. It's a fair question to ask where the bigfoot populations have been all these years? The witnesses and that plaster cast (mentioned earlier in the thread) indicate they exist. The lack of solid evidence (bodies, bones, nests) indicates they don't. It's a puzzle

reply to post by Gemwolf


I'm not saying that the Patterson footage is a fake. I just find it very strange that the best known footage is from 1967 from men who sought out to get footage of bigfoot(a time when very few had even heard of bigfoot legends) and got it on their first try. Since 1967 how many countless individuals have been actively seeking to reproduce this footage with absolutely no luck as this footage is by far the holy grail of bigfoot footage.

I wont deny that this footage is really tough to debunk and is very convincing. I really want to believe that its real and hope that it is. But the logical side of me just finds it really hard to believe that in 40 years not one person has been able to get footage even close to this.

Now one poster said, that they were out in the woods on horseback and maybe that masked their smell. And that may be true, but are we to believe that no one else has been out in the woods on horseback with a camera. The number of trail cams set up in remote parts of the wilderness is increasing everyday. Every year thousands of hunters enter the woods with odor masking agents and sit for hours or days with weapons and some with cameras and yet we still do not have any footage or even photographs that can compete with the Patterson footage.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Canada has over three and a half million square miles of land. Alaska is about 600,000 square miles. Much of the terrain has not been touched by human beings. I think people tend to forget how big these areas are. I have driven through the West, and it is awesome to go through.

I claim hundreds of thousands of miles, but it is probably over one million square miles. That does not include places like Siberia, where there is vast tracts of unexplored regions.

I did not doubt you are debunking Bigfoot, but I just want it to be clear there is plenty of places for unknown creatures to live.

Take the time and visit a great state like Montana or Idaho. You will be quite surprised at how vast the area is.

A couple of points,
Severeal new studies of the film prove that it could not have been faked.


the area the patterson film was made has a LONG history of BF sightings going back hundreds of years.

8mm film cameras were very popular in the late fifties through the late seventies.
It is not video, it is film, and many people owned such devices, i grew up with 8mm and super 8 cameras and was making my own cheesey films by the time i was 11 years old.

On finding a carcass, chew on this, no one has EVER FOUND THE CARCASS OF A GRIZZLY BEAR in the wild.


Having had a BF encounter myself I, I firmley believe they exist.
I was so skeptical of my own sighting I didnt even report it till if found out that there were 2 other sightings in the same area the same month.


There are petroglyphs at a nearby indian rancheria that depict the "hairy man" as he is know to the local Mono indians.

A list of names for bigfoot used by Native americans;

NAME TRIBE TRANSLATION
Yi' dyi'tay Nehalem/Tillamook Indian "Wild Man"
Sasahevas Halkomelem Language
Salish Indian "Sasquatch"
"Wild Man of the Woods"
Xi'lgo Nehalem/Tillamook Indian "Wild Woman"
Sc'wen'ey'ti Spokane Indian "Tall Burnt Hair""
Skanicum Colville Indians "Stick Indians"
Choanito Wenatchee Indian "Night People"
Ste ye mah Yakama Indian "Spirit hidden by woods"
Seatco Yakama/Klickitat/Puyallup "Stick Indian"
Seat ka Yakama Indian Not Available
See'atco Coast Salish Indian "One who runs and hides"
Tsiatko Puyallup/Nisqually Indian "Wild Indians"
Steta'l Puyallup/Nisqually Indian "Spirt Spear"
Seeahtkch Clallam Indian Not Available
Qui yihahs Yakama/Klickitat Indian "The Five Brothers"
Skookum Chinook Indian "Evil God of the Woods"
At'at'ahila Chinookan Indian Not Available
Omah Yurok Indian Not Available
Oh Mah Hoopa Indian "Boss of the Woods"
Bukwas Kwakwaka'wakw Indian "Wildman of the Woods"
Tsonaqua Kwakwaka'wakw Indian "Wild Woman of the Woods"
Tah tah kle' ah Yakama/Shasta Indian "Owl Woman Monster"
Sne nah Okanogan Indian "Owl Woman"
Rugaru Turtle Mt Ojibway Not Available
Qah lin me Yakama/Klickitat Indian Not Available
Windago Eastern Athabascan Indian "Wicked Cannibal"
Wetiko Cree Indian Not Available
Chiye tanka Lakota (West)/Sioux Indian "Big Elder Brother"
Chiha tanka Dakota (East)/Sioux Indian "Big Elder Brother"
Matlose Nootka Indian Not Available
Neginla eh Alutiiq/Yukon Indian "Wood Man"
Nantiinaq Kenai Peninsula Indian Not Available
Nant'ina Dena'ina Indian Not Available
Urayuli SW Alaskan Eskimo Not Available
Get'qun Lake Lliamna Indian Not Available
Kushtaka Tlingit Indian "Otter Man"
A hoo la huk Yup'ik Indian Not Available
Gilyuk Nelchina Plateau Indian "Big Man with little hat"
lariyin Hare Indian "Bushman"
So'yoko Hopi Indian Not Available
Ot ne yar heh Iroquois Indian "Stonish Giant"
Ge no sqwa Iroquois/Seneca Indian "Stone Giants"
Ge no'sgwa Seneca Indian "Stone Coats"
Miitiipi Kawaiisu Indian "Bad luck or disaster"
Yahyahaas Modoc Indian Not Available
Tso apittse Shoshone Indian "Cannibal Giant"
Toylona Taos Indian "Big Person"
Atahsaia Zuni Indian "The Cannibal Demon"
Boqs Bella Coola Indian "Bush Man"
Goo tee khl Chilkat Indian Not Available
Loo poo oi'yes Miwuk Indian Not Available
Kala'litabiqw Skagit Valley Indian Not Available
Madukarahat Karok Indian "Giant"
Nun Yunu Wi Cherokee Indian "The Stone Man"
Kecleh-Kudleh Cherokee Indian "Hairy Savage"
Esti Capcaki Seminole Indian "Tall Man"
Mesingw Lenni Lenape Indian "The Mask Being"
Misinghalikun Lenni Lenape Indian "Living Solid Face"
Wsinkhoalican Lenni Lenape Indian "The Game Keeper"
Saskets Salishan/Sahaptin Indian "The Giant"
Not Available Coeur d'Alene/Spokane Indian "The Tree Men"
Not Available Oglala Lakota Sioux Indian "The Big Man"
Yayaya-ash Klamath Indian "The Frightener"
Manabai'wok Menomini Indian "The Giants"
Nu'numic Owens Valley Paiute "The Giant"
Tse'nahaha Mono Lake Paiute "Giant"
Gogit Haida Indians "Not Available"
Tsadjatko Quinault Indians "Giants"
Hecaitomixw Quinault Indians "Dangerous Being"
Skukum Quinault Indians "Devil of the Forest"
Not Available Twana Indians "Stick Indians"
Slalakums Upper Stalo Indians "The Unknown"
Na'in Gwich'in Indians "Brushman"
El-Ish-kas Makah Indians "Not Available"
"Not Available" Tshimshian Indians "Cannibal"
Iktomi Plains Indians "The Trickster "
Yé'iitsoh Navajo Indians "Big God "

a
little about the Hairy man of central cal


www.bigfootproject.org...



[edit on 18-5-2009 by punkinworks09]

[edit on 18-5-2009 by punkinworks09]

I just find it very strange that the best known footage is from 1967 from men who sought out to get footage of bigfoot(a time when very few had even heard of bigfoot legends) and got it on their first try.

I am almost certain that those two guys had been actively looking for Bigfoot for years before they managed to film the one at Bluff Creek in 1967.

While we are on Bigfoot. I'm going to post two videos. The first one is not really a video showing anything but it has samples of what some believe to be audio recording of Bigfoot, No Hoaxing so turn it up loud. The second one I think is real. No BS crappy acting.

Enjoy






[edit on 19-5-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thank you for those recordings. They always give me goosebumps when I hear them. The 911 call at the end is quite scary. Many of the voices have been analyzed and come from unknown sources. They are not man made.

Kidflash sorry you're wrong. Although there are still huge vast tracts of wilderness there are very few places that have been untouched by man. What I mean is the number of people backpacking and getting out into the backcountry in the last 60 years has grown exponentially. Combine that with the vast land that the military owns, the exploration of natural resources and what not and the chances of having hundreds of square miles never before visited by man is practically nill. That doesn't mean there are not remote areas that these creatures may live and not be seen. Most definitely. I mean there are probably lots of caves and underground areas that have in fact not been found by man or people trumping through the wilderness. Like the one poster said has there ever been a carcass of a grizzly bear found? Are they like a dog, they go off and die in some remote cave never to be found? Who knows. I thin if these ape creatures exist they have the intelligence of man (to an extent) and the navigation/sense ability of an animal. That makes them more stealthy than anything we can imagine. I find the whole big foot thing very fascinating and believe atleast at one time there were ape like creatures roaming around. It's like aliens.

That one 9/11 call is amazing. I wonder if that guy was ever interviewed or who he is? LOL. It was almost funny but scary too.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Look at the way it turns it's head above. Note that it has to turn it's whole upper body because it's head sits low on it's shoulders like an ape with it's chin in it's chest like a gorilla and not like a man in a rigid ape suit.

Well, I would say that is exactly how it would look with a man in a rigid ape suit.

Not only that. Look at the forearms in the above images they are much longer than a mans more like an ape and look at the shoulders and forearms on this one here. Much too long and muscular for a human.

Really? They look exactly the length a human arm has to me. A bit extended, but that would be expected from a suit.

[edit on 20/5/09 by Thain Esh Kelch]

reply to post by Thain Esh Kelch


Hey thanks for your OPINION but I'll keep an OPEN mind.
I tend to learn more things that way.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


There are hundreds of thousands of square miles of land in Canada and Alaska that have not been touched by human beings. Yes, many people go camping in the wilderness, but they do not go into the Yukon or other territories in Canada. Alaska is huge and I would bet half of it is still untouched by man.

The areas have been explored by air and satellite, but there are still vast tracts of untouched land. Get a road atlas of the USA and Canada and check out the Provincial maps. The further north, the sparser the roads are.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by A Conscience

 

A Chewbacca/ Wookie explanation? It's possible, maybe? Who knows? Is this the source?

I read another explanation that I've been trying to find today without luck. In the theory such sightings of unusual creatures were explained as damons or daemons? Not evil demons, but creatures that shouldn't really be here and leave little solid evidence. Big cats, mothmen and even fairies. It speculated that they somehow appear in this world and vanish back to where they came from.

It's unfounded speculation but goes some way to explaining sightings with evidence. 'Now you see me, now you don't!'

Interesting point, i do believe that i remember reading about several bigfoot and more commonly Yeti accounts that involve shapeshifting or flat out vanishing into thin air. I cant think of exactly where but i will do some digging in my cryptozoology library and see what i can come up with. Also i believe that many of the native peoples who have legends about bigfoot like creatures typically view them as half flesh and blood animal and half supernatural. I read a book a few years back called "Hunt for the Skinwalker" the authors claim that it is all true and it seems to tie together bigfoot, Native American lore about bigfoot being supernatural (vanishing into thin air), and UFOs, balls of light, etc, as well as cattle mutilations among other things. A very interesting read but I'm not 100% on its validity, perhaps some of the ATS faithful could fill me in on any other info known about that book/phenomena.
Another point that i feel one must take into account especially when looking for bigfoot or any other undiscovered animal (being) known only by sightings is that 95% of the time any expeditions that go out looking for such an animal do so by looking at the locations of a group of sightings and then searching in areas where the sighting locations seem to overlap if that makes any sense. In my opinion that method doesn't make much sense, most sightings occur because the supposed animal has crossed paths with humans in or near a human populated area. I feel as though it would be much more beneficial to look at a map of sightings and go where there are the least amount of human inhabitants not where the most sightings occur. (There are exceptions but generally this makes sense to me).

I think the that is a real animal. They rode upon it and it stood up and just looked at them. That spooked 3 horses. I don't think a man in an ape suit just standing there would spook horses. They weren't that close, it wasn't screaming or waving its arms. Horses would know by the smell if it was a human even if it did look funny. Patterson was ex rodeo cowboy his horse was probably well trained. He had been seeing tracks and like anybody that has ever watched Wild Kingdom he was going to the water source to try to get footage. I have recently saw the digital version with muscle movement, fantastic calf muscles.