Books of Enoch and New Testament Commandments

I have been reading the Bible for quite some time now and has realized that there are a number of commandments in the New Testament that which basically expounds the 10 Commandments in the Old Testament.

An example of this is "Thou shalt not kill". Most readers will only see this as a physical killing but when seen on the New Testament , it is shown that a killing intent is an equally grievous act. All of the 10 Commandments are essentially condensed versions of the New Testament commands. However, these are not written in a 10 Commandments format but in a "Woe is to..." amongst other things.

I've read the Books of Enoch (I and II) in Sacred-Texts.com and it indicates in the Book I the "commandments" in the New Testament in an easy to read manner. They usually start with "Woe" so it's easy to search for them in the file.

Now, my conspiracy radar is activated. To what I read, the both Books of Enoch are supposed to be the placed in the early pages of the Genesis and it stops before Noah appears in the scene. The creation, God's commandments, the appearance of The Son of Man, and the fallen watchers amongst others were all written in those 2 books.

The most important part of the Book of Enoch is in the commandments since God wants these known to mankind in order to have a more lenient judgement. However, these expounded, New Testament-style commandments were placed in that part of the book in which most Christians haven't read due to being too busy with life or plain laziness.

If the leaders of the Christian religion want their followers to be saved then they should have put the Books of Enoch as the 1st book of the Bible and not let them think anymore of the basic 10 Commandments which they will later encounter on Exodus and the expounded version much later on the New Testament.

The Bible scholars that I have talked to have said that the 10 Commandments are only meant for the Hebrews and not for the general populace. Ok. I understand that but it's odd to shove the most important part of Christianity which is to be saved or to have a lenient judgement at the middle of the book.

From what i understand, 10 commandments are for every religious Christian and Jew. However religious Jews observe 613 commandments, with those ten as most important.
As for books of Enoch, it is not that clear when (and by whom) they were written. It is not part of Tanakh for example.
So while it is extremely interesting and puzzling (there are several types of books of Enoch) and is clearly based on earlier tradition - book of Enoch hardly carries enough religious weight ,so to speak, to combat authority of old/new testament.

reply to post by Unregistered


The way I understand it is the original covenants in the OT that God made with man were superseded by those in the NT. Originally, everything to do with right and wrong had to be told to man. To live a life pleasing to God, man had to trust in what he was told of right and wrong because he had no inner feelings to guide him, as we do today. This ultimately did not work and led to God recreating man with the ability to know right from wrong inside him. This conscience made the commandments unnecessary and God speaks of this in the NT.

Peace.

I have also read Enoch and found the material itself maybe over the heads of many, and dismissed outright as looney thinking by others.

Many in here (ATS), point to the Origin as being from a "Channeled" Source.

Despite this, it is a fasinating read, and has relevant information about the Days of Noah, many simply wish to ignore.

With that said, I would agree with Zeroknowledge, (hahahaha)

The Ten Commandments are as relevant today, as they were when Moses brought them down from the Mountain.

The "Christian" perspective is of course that Jesus Saves and this is all that matters.
The "Christian" perspective is that a Pig in now fine to eat.

I could go on, but will make this point clear. I am a Christain

It's funny, but those scholars and the ones behind the pulpits seem to neglect some things when teaching the Flock. Tithes and Sins yes, but GOD's Word, forget it.

Jesus said he did not come here to change the law, but to fulfill.

www.jesus-is-lord.com...

Matthew 5

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

The lesson goes on and expresses the train of thought being brought forth.

So, it is quite clear, the Commandments from the OLD testament are a valid today, as they where during David's Time.

The ONLY THING that was Changed, was the Sacrafice. It became Christ, since he knew the Temple was to fall, and would not be restored until that time. (These Times)
www.templeinstitute.org...
Without the Temple, None would be able to seek redemption through sacraficing at the temple.

So, I think it would be safe to express many are being mislead by clergy, pastors, ministers, scholars (and on........). The word of GOD is pretty clear, and despite the presumed Channeled Sources of Enoch, it seems to be ECHOED again.

Great Question!

Ciao

Shane

The thing is that the commandments in the New Testament are in the Books of Enoch which predates the New Testament and the only "authority" that compiled the "authorized' Bible are the organized Christian-based religion whose authority is questionable to say the least.

Originally posted by Unregistered
The thing is that the commandments in the New Testament are in the Books of Enoch which predates the New Testament and the only "authority" that compiled the "authorized' Bible are the organized Christian-based religion whose authority is questionable to say the least.

The thing is that there is absolutely no evidence that the current book of Enoch predates the new testament. Sure it has quotes in that are mentioned in the new testament, but again, how do you know they are aren't taken from the new testament. There obviously was a book of writing named after Enoch, but we have no proof this current book is the original. Much of it contradicts scripture.

I believe with the poster who said that the 10 commandments are still required to be lived by, which includes the 7th Day Sabbath, which is our Saturday, not Sunday. Christ himself lived by them, so did the the Apostles, and Christ said he lived his life for an example to us.

I do not agree however about Christ being sacrificed because he knew the temple was about to fall, until it is rebuilt. The temple was rent at the death of Christ, because it was no longer needed. The physical temple was only a physical type of what was to be a spiritual temple, God's church, the body of Christ. Throughout the new testament the writers say over and over again that the Church is now the temple of God, that God now dwells in his church through Jesus Christ.

1Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Many forget this, and think that a new physical temple needs to built to fulfill end-time prophecy, such as the abomination of desolation, because their thought process is still trapped in the physical. The physical destruction of the temple in 70AD was simply a physical fulfillment of what would take place spiritually in the end times. People understand that there are prophecies concerning a desolation of the temple just prior to the the return of Christ, but they forget that the temple is now spiritual, the church, and that another prophecy talks about a great falling away within the church, an apostasy, which would be a spiritual desolation of the temple. As I quoted above, Paul said many times that the temple of God was now the church. With that in mind, read again what Paul said concerning the end times....

2THESSALONIANS 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This is what the abomination of desolation in the end times was. It was to be caused by a man of sin, set in a place of Authority in God's church, who would cause an apostasy, an abomination of desolation in the church, who would raise himself up above God. That man was Joseph W. Tkach sr.

No new physical temple will be rebuilt, even if it was, God would not be dwelling there, therefor it would not be God's temple, it would be no a building of no greater standing than the Vatican.

Originally posted by doctorex

An Excellent reply/response Drex.

I do not agree however about Christ being sacrificed because he knew the temple was about to fall, until it is rebuilt. The temple was rent at the death of Christ, because it was no longer needed. The physical temple was only a physical type of what was to be a spiritual temple, God's church, the body of Christ. Throughout the new testament the writers say over and over again that the Church is now the temple of God, that God now dwells in his church through Jesus Christ.

I understand your point of view, and would generally agree, but with that said, I would wish to stress, Christ knew these stones would no be standing upon eachother, when discussing things with the Apostles in Matt 24.

www.jesus-is-lord.com...

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

You see, until Christ was crucfied, the only method of forgiveness of sin was thru the sacrafice in the Temple. It had been this way since the Sixth Day, and carried thru to Adam, as is evident with Cain and Abel.

Granted my "Terms used" may not have been the best suited for indicating what I did, but the important thing is, the Sacrafice made does forgive all the sins, of all the peoples today. Without that Sacrafice, none would be forgiven. Why?

Because the Temple was destroyed. And it will be restored for good or evil.

www.templeinstitute.org...

The Sanhedrin calls upon the Jewish people to contribute towards the acquisition of materials for the purpose of rebuilding the Holy Temple; the gathering and preparation of prefabricated, disassembled portions of this building to be stored and ready for rapid assembly, in the manner of King David. These contributions will be consider "chulin," i.e., non-sacred, for the purpose of the planning and construction of the Temple.

So despite your opinion, which is yours to hold, there are people working with this goal in mind, and in the not to distant future, the Temple will be placed upon the Well of Souls, which sits to the left of the Dome of the Rock. This is being prepared and worked on NOW, and has been basically since the Sanhedrin returned.

And, I would agree with the following completely.

even if it was, God would not be dwelling there, therefor it would not be God's temple, it would be no a building of no greater standing than the Vatican.

Who's god is this being built for? Certainly not the "Christian" God, since you clearly have offered support for this. It is being built for the Abomination of Desolation so he can stand where he ought not. Watch Jerusalem during the next few years. Exciting things are going to be happening.

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 18-5-2009 by Shane]

[edit on 18-5-2009 by Shane]

Originally posted by Shane
I understand your point of view, and would generally agree, but with that said, I would wish to stress, Christ knew these stones would no be standing upon eachother, when discussing things with the Apostles in Matt 24.

When Christ said all the the stones would be scattered, you have to remember that he viewed the temple spiritually, and with many of his comments concerning "the temple", he was talking of his body, or even further, his body as in the future church, just as Peter explained....

1PETER 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

When Christ said the stones would be torn down he was speaking spiritually of the people of the church, he was talking about the apostasy to come, the end time church being spewed out of God's mouth in the Laodicean era

REVELATION 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

The seven churches mentioned in the beginning of Revelation actually were positioned on a mail route, in that order. It is messages to seven consecutive eras of the church, with Laodecian being the end time church era before the tribulation.

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

There are still physical stones standing of the buildings of the physical temple, because that is not what Christ was talking about. It is just like when the people mocked Christ because he said he would destroy the temple and raise it in three days, because they all believed he was talking of the physical temple.

So despite your opinion, which is yours to hold, there are people working with this goal in mind, and in the not to distant future, the Temple will be placed upon the Well of Souls, which sits to the left of the Dome of the Rock. This is being prepared and worked on NOW, and has been basically since the Sanhedrin returned.

Yes, they are trying, but it will never happen. Many are going to be caught off guard by the end times because they believe a physical temple must be built to fulfill this prophecy, not knowing it is a spiritual event. That is why Christ said that to many it will come like a thief in the night.

You have to understand what the son of perdition was. The term is used twice in scripture. Jesus used it once in reference to Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples, in a position of trust, who betrayed him, whose actions led the physical and temporary destruction of the body of Christ. Speaking of his 12 desciples, Christ said.....

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

The second son of perdition, the one that was to cause the abomination of desolation of the temple, the spiritual body of Christ, was also to be one in a position of trust.

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (Apostasy), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

The word translated as "sitteth" means to be appointed authority, to sit in a seat of authority. The son of perdition, just like the first, was someone placed in a position of authority in the temple, the church of God, who would raise himself up in pride above God, and through his actions desolate the temple, the church, causing the prophesied apostasy, the great falling away. The Son of perdition was to be someone "on the inside", just as the first son of perdition was, Judas Iscariot.

Remember that Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that the main reason he couldn't understand what Jesus was saying, is because he took everything as being earthly (Physically), missing the heavenly (spiritual) content/intent of what he was saying, and that because he couldn't even believe Jesus when he used physical types to explain what he was talking about, he therefore couldn't believe the spiritual intent of it.

God bless.

reply to post by doctorex


Very well said and expressed.

As a Christian, I look at the Word of God, on three levels, namely being a Spiritual, Historical and Prophetic Text.

Yes, what you note is quite accurate in the Spiritual Sense. There is also Prophecy, and as all the world knows today, Historical implications as well in the message found in Matthew 24.

The Temple was destroyed.

The Temple Mount, is a completely different thing, and yes, today, there is one wall remaining from the Temple Mount. But this as I know you are aware, is not the Temple.

The Intent or Message placed forth in Matthew, revolves around his Return, and when we should be expecting this to occur. The Parable of the Fig Tree, which is Prophetic in Nature, is our key to understanding the significance of what was told during that "Question" period.

As much as we can look at the expressions Spiritually, we should not be ignoring the other charateristics which are there, for the sake of Spiritual correctness, so to speak.

Your notes on the 7 churches is quite accurate in the protrayal expressed, which is one I have really never considered previously. I was always drawn to what the 2 churches where doing that God found favour with. TEACHING WHO THE CAINITE IS.

Nice to see there are intelligent contributors such as you.

Have a good day

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 20-5-2009 by Shane]

Enoch is one of the mysterious figures in the bible, more so because he is quoted by many others. He is also one of the few that physically walked with God before the Flood.

We dont know if Enoch actually died according to the bible, he may or may not have been taking by god before physically dying, according to what translation we read.

This deepens the mystery; a man who physically walked with God and was given who knows what secrets of the Universe has his writings overlooked...very strange.

I find the book of Enoch fascinating to my imagination(about the things He was shown). He vividly even describes the Second Coming and adds to the notion that Nephilim are in the "air" or UFOs.

[edit on 5/22/2009 by watchtheashes]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
From what i understand, 10 commandments are for every religious Christian and Jew.

Christians and Muslims, yes. Jews, no. Those are the 10 divisions of the law.

However religious Jews observe 613 commandments,

Yes...

with those ten as most important.

No.

As for books of Enoch, it is not that clear when (and by whom) they were written. It is not part of Tanakh for example.
So while it is extremely interesting and puzzling (there are several types of books of Enoch) and is clearly based on earlier tradition - book of Enoch hardly carries enough religious weight ,so to speak, to combat authority of old/new testament.

You make an excellent point. Whenever it was first written, either the people who wrote it had very little power in the community OR it was not considered to be "good" knowledge. It did not reflect the way the people thought and worshipped -- otherwise it would be more widely recognized and set into the Bible.

The names and actionos of angels were of great importance. I wonder if ol' Enoch's angels are "wrong" somehow.

Originally posted by Zerbst
reply to post by Unregistered

 

The way I understand it is the original covenants in the OT that God made with man were superseded by those in the NT. Originally, everything to do with right and wrong had to be told to man. To live a life pleasing to God, man had to trust in what he was told of right and wrong because he had no inner feelings to guide him, as we do today. This ultimately did not work and led to God recreating man with the ability to know right from wrong inside him. This conscience made the commandments unnecessary and God speaks of this in the NT.

Peace.

Ok, but if right and wrong was being told in the OT, then wouldn't that right and wrong be the same thing today? And thus right and wrong would still be based on the commandments? I don't really buy the whole things changed excuse, Jesus says he did not come to change the law, but to fulfill it.

The way I see it is the original commandments were given, they were not understood and the people weren't able to follow them(combined with those who mislead etc). For example, they thought they were justified if they kill the man who killed. As that person sinned, they thought/claimed they were doing "god's work" by killing the man. What they forgot is - vengeance is mine sayeth the lord. So when they kill the man who killed, then it is 2 sins, not just 1. They were hypocrites as Jesus says.

So, Jesus does what he does in order to be an example of how to follow the laws properly and with understanding. And it is by following his example that one can "be saved". It has little to do with "accepting Jesus into your heart" as presented by the church. Those who truly believe will do as he says. Thus his example is "the way". He doesn't change the laws, he fulfills them.

His death is part of the example. He shows man that they way is to not take up evil. If he had fought back, then he would have sinned and he would have not fulfilled the commandments. Truly a hefty price. His grace is that because he had that understanding and lived by the commandments he did not have to do what he did. So if you follow his example, then you are saved by his grace.

But the commandments are just as valid, only the understanding changed.