We must end the rising "culture of negativity" (SOLUTION POSTED)

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Perhaps then if you have such a problem with the way things are run, you should find another outlet for this information.

Is there really any need to be so negative?

He was just expressing his opinion - and you reply with "if you have such a problem with the way things are run, you should find another outlet for this information."...

Classy

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by GateCrasher
Tell me how many believers who have scared-off skeptics? ... Zilch!

Let's see, you've been here a whole week, you are making absolutely FALSE assumptions and presenting them as proclamations with no basis in investigation, because you obviously haven't done any,(just like the professional debunkers do... or don't) and we are supposed to listen to you why?

The answer to your question is HUNDREDS not "Zilch!"...

Your ability to pontificate and denigrate not withstanding, I suggest you gain some FACTS and then rethink what you've posted so far.

Springer...

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Springer]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The issue here, is not who "believes" and who "does not," but how one habitually presents themselves within the discussions.

I don't see why a mod who has noticed an unacceptable 'habitual' pattern couldn't notify said habitual poster citing what the particular issue is.
If you have time to keep tabs on our posting habits, then you have time to address it.
The difference between looking and communicating is a click away, is it not?

I swear, this forum has more bells and whistles than any other I have seen.
Are we really that wily a bunch or do you guys just love tinkering with the CMS/DB back-end?

reply to post by Springer


What is it that I've posted which is false?

How exactly are of any of my proclamations false?

If my comments are false, then why have I provoked nothing but violent opposition and negative responses?

reply to post by GateCrasher


Springer isn't saying that your 'proclamations' are false...

He is saying that your 'Assumptions' are false.

*I would like to see the alleged false assumptions listed so that you may provide refutation on a point-by-point basis.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by GateCrasher
If my comments are false, then why have I provoked nothing but violent opposition and negative responses?

As you're not going to reply to my other dissection of your argument...I'll debate with you on this one.


You have received the responses you have because you're throwing accusations and insults around and claiming ridiculous things about entire groups of people.


As i said in my last response to you....i don't get your reasoning?

reply to post by SpacePunk


I miss "Bat Boy"! I happen to absolutely love those tall tales and I kinda think they have a place here! It's pretty serious business reading about the swine flu, the economy, unemployment, the WHO,NWO....and a little
WOOHOO can take the edge off. So yep, I'd read the thread about the captured tight lipped leprechaun just find out if MIB's waterboarded him!
All that being said, maybe the ATSPTB could create a Tall Tales Forum or is that Skunkworks? And just simply move those threads there. Maybe Skunkworks might be a pretty fun place to hangout for a few pages instead of a place to make fun of? Just asking?
I don't think I want ATS policing language in order to create a more "positive environment", smaks of politically correct peer pressure.
But I do wish people would exercize their individual freedom of choice more often and simply not comment on threads that make them roll their eyes. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you must say so.
OK, didn't mean to rant. Thank you for your time.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by missvicky]

I just stumbled upon a thread where the poster thinks that if debunkers can't debunk the story then it's 100% undeniable proof.
All that negative energy directed at the debunker/sceptic community is making me feel sad.. : (
Some believers just don't love us. They can't accept the fact that there are those who don't believe everything they're told and that we want some actual proof..

Skepticoverlord,I understand what you and the mods are trying to do here but the outlandish theories are all part of discussing alternative topics.Yeah,we have many knee-jerk skeptics and people just looking to argue for the sake of arguing it really just comes with the territory with sites such as this.Trolls should be dealt with harshly and you guys already do that.

Originally posted by GateCrasher
I disagree, skeptics are abundant here and on most/many other conspiracy forums, their voice is considered stronger, and even though they have nothing to offer, they are treated amicably, whilst the "believers" get treated like mental patients. Granted, there are indeed some really "out-there" people, but nobody should be allowed to act as a judge, or as a God. And skeptics are always allowed to get away with this behavior. Infact, that is the entire nature of the skeptics on forums like this one, and that is all they have to offer.

Isn't it possible to be both a believer and a skeptic????? I will give anything consideration, but if i see a logical reason or answer for something i feel it only right to question it. I have often done so, but some people cannot or will not to see past their 'own' theories and fail to consider other possibilties and choose to ignore alternative explanations declaring them as negative responses - when this happens, i lose faith in their theory. You need to keep an open mind - whatever angle your looking at it from.






[edit on 5-5-2009 by MCoG1980]

this appears to be getting off topic, even to me and i'm good at talking BS.

isn't this about shunning negativity rather than whether skeptics or believers should be shut down in certain outlandish threads.

i recently recieved a 4 day banning from moderator, alien. i was "trolling", not that i quite understand trolling. then i was uncivil to people who attacked me for trolling. then i tried to bug out.
as a constant user of ATS and the first banning i recieved the lesson was learnt hard and fast.
i now focus on the topic to offer proof, discrepency or my personal belief.

it all comes down to individual members supressing the need or urge to belittle the opposition. when one is feels offended, one naturally wants to reply offensively. its a "mud fight".

the debate tends to go off topic and leans towards who is personally right and who is wrong, as seen here. we are all skeptics and we are all debunkers depending on the topic.

here, instead of just contributing ideas on how to suppress negativity members are "attacking" members on the other side of the fence. though nothing is more annoying than people who use the gate to swap sides when their argument is failing.

This is proving to be an interesting experiment Skeptic Overlord!!!



[edit on 5/5/09 by spearhead]

when dealing with sensitive issues, such as global warming, users refuse to provide evidence - instead simply attempt to aggravate, wind up, infuriate others with mocking emoticons and worst of all completely unrelated evidence - followed up with more emoticons.

It is abundantly clear that people have absolutely no interest in debating the issue what so ever and are merely trying to get a rise out of people, bait them or merely troll. It is quite revolting - the worst part about it is the frustration levels build up and eventually one responds to the continuous baititing.

I am a member of a LOT of boards, I have been on boards for almost fifteen years, I build boards, yet there is a problem on this site where posts are simply "deleted". this is not good enough - people need to be publicly rebuked - and they need to be able to challenge that rebuke.

MOderators need to take a proactive position and actually do some work rather than simply hitting the delete button - you are more concerned with how threads are posted (oooohhh no capitals please) rather than actually moderating what is being said.

This is a down fall on this website - and it clearly will drive people away - you attracted a lot of people through this site being good - however you are going to lose the lot with kids running around talking junk.

I love coming on this site and being totally flamed by a more intelligent poster with hard evidence, love it, it makes me think and change my opinion and that is the whole point, there NOTHING WORSE than having someone simply ignore your posts and antagonise you with irrelevant garbage.

Cheers.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


First I'd like to say that I'm impressed that you take such a personal interest in this site. It would be so easy for you to sit on a thrown and have others do your bidding while you collect your revenue. This type of attitude alone impresses me and creates a continued air of excitement each and every time I visit and post.

That being said, I'm not sure much can reasonably be done. The honest to god truth is that we as posters need to start acting a bit more adult.

I can tell you a few things that turn my experience negative.
1. I'll see a tag for a new thread that will say something along the lines of
"Nasa images show Absolute proof of Life on Mars. Huge cities , page 1"
Now I've been chomping at the bit for some solid evidence of alien life ever since the WOW! signal. I go to the thread and I see photos of some rocks and so photographic artifacting. No proof at all let alone ABSOLUTE PROOF.
So what I'm getting at is that the title should represent what is actually in the thread.

2. Someone who makes a statement of fact and refuses to back it up with the claimed fact. An opinion is an opinion and it's hard to ague and opinion. And sometimes there are statements such as aliens have abducted me and obviously there is no way to back that up. The statements I'm referring to are the ones that people make claiming certain things as fact and they are simply false and easily determined as such.

3. Those posters who seem to only be there to bait people into arguments. They ignore discussions and post either personal attacks or random inflammatory statements that many times have nothing to do with the threads subject matter.

To me, it seems impossible to police these things so I'm left with saying that we should just take the good with the bad.

This is the best site on the web BY FAR ! and I personally won't let a few negative experiences sway me from that opinion.

Originally posted by alienanderson

Originally posted by 27jd
Label those who seek to do nothing but bring negativity with a big "PLEASE DO NOT FEED ME, I'M A TROLL" on their sig line, with no ability on their part to remove it, lol. A kind of badge of shame that they must wear until they shape up, or everybody just ends up putting them on ignore.

I was gonna vote for "leave things as they are" but I am kinda loving this idea!

"Do not feeds me I is a stoopid Troll"

Can I vote this best of thread?

What's happening to this site is sad to see. It was very clear within the Obama citizenship thread that went *poof* and disappeared (the thread was about a April Fool's joke of "smoking gun" evidence that showed Obama was not a US citizen and the thread starter and many participants blindly accepted this joke as a fact because of their beliefs about Obama).

Disturbingly, this site is becoming a place for hardcore, stagnant beliefs to fester and thrive in. It's the same type of comfort people find in news organizations that cater to their specific political and social ideologies.

I have seen very little extreme negativity.You have a few that will go off the deep end,the mods usually end that abruptly. All in all a great ride.
I have twice aroused one particular moderator to action. She doesn't like it when you point out flaws on certaint topics. She will dock and block you for off topic posts that are on topic. I believe that, that is negativity.
As far as more policeing of the threads,I see nothing wrong with the way it is now.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I think it is weak and stupid to worry about a "culture of negativity".
If you actually have any positive principles or substantive knowledge, any negativity brought by others is hardly world-shattering.
I agree with no name-calling, because the ad hominem argument is a fallacy...
This is like medicating everyone for depression if they don't all wake up singing show tunes every morning.
On my planet it is less important to "make nice" than it is to be "about something".

(In the nicest way, really, I would be embarrassed if I had run something as lame as this "culture-of-negativity"-trial-balloon up the flagpole...kind of Stepford Wives, ain't it?)

Originally posted by finemanm

There are quite a few people on this site who only start threads that take the position that Israel is this evil nefarious entity that runs the world and is bent on global conflict. These posters claim Israel is engaged in genocide, apartheid and any number of other nasty things.

I for one feel that healthy debate is wonderful, but these people are not here for healthy debate. They post an article - often from a pro-Iranian propaganda agency or an anti-Israel blog - which they cling to a fact and start threads like:

Israel's destruction in 14 days
In the above thread we get statements like:

Originally posted by Seany
reply to post by mrmonsoon

 

we can hope

we can hope

I searched the other day and found over 400 threads started about Israel. It seems that for some reason, while there are real genocides - see Sudan, Darfur, etc... - and real human rights violations - see China, Russia v. Chechnya, etc... - everyone wants to talk about Israel.

I am sure that this is not merely unbiased criticism of a particular government. There are hundreds of governments that are entitled to their fair share of criticism, but it seems that Israel is always the target.

I am certain that this is a propaganda campaign to foster anti-Semitism.

YOUR WEBSITE HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY BIGOTS.

I can link dozens of threads to prove my point, but I am sure you are already aware of them.

Good points. I think ATS is wonderful. And I'm critical by nature.

It has become so apparent that in conspiracy-minded circles the default assumption is that Israel virtually controls American foreign policy and is running a genocidal campaign against it's Muslim neighbours. This has become the Official Story for those who reject conventional wisdom.

On an ATS thread related, of late, if one brings up a criticism of Palestinians, Iranians, Saudis, etc - they get branded as Muslim bashers.

An increasing number of ATS members have learned to keep just below the radar by making outrageously unfounded claims about Jews by invoking Zionists, Madoff-types, Hollywood propaganda, Rothschild front men, etc.

I'd say this is tolerated by the lack of interference, and implicitly supported. I've watched Jewish members offer arguments based on the historical record and documentation get shouted down with vicious invective, become infuriated, lash out, and end up banned or withdraw from activity.

I totally agree with the precepts of free speech, but I see the abuse of receptivity to opinions abused here as in the real world.

Promotion of hate by inference and constant repetition has become a new political weapon. Say Israel is an apartheid state enough times, offer anecdotal evidence, find an inflammatory sentence made by some politician 40 years ago, and you create a meme that never disappears.

More I could say but I realize I've deflected somewhat from the topic at hand.



Mike

It is impossible to manage the thoughts and words of thousands. Subjectivity, semantics, polarizing belief systems, political and religious. You have a place all come into conflict at one time or another.

I was always taught not to talk religion or political at a party, or family gathering. Of course some of my family drink and were ratcheted downwards in their actual comprehension abilities while under the influence, that was only 12 hours a day. But the simple reasoning is that we do not have educational systems to teach us proper effective intelligence. We still are as reactive as a barbarian with a mead wine hangover some of us. No amount of “time outs” on ATS can cure the savage beasts of righteous belief systems.

I have cut back my time on ATS for practical reasons, but find it is the first place to look for an important story in the news with hundreds of thousands of reporters all over the world who know a good or “important” story. Of course I keep CNN on the screen without sound so I can catch the CD symbol and can duck and cover in time for the blast wave.

The time I have spent has been frustrating in the read for people convinced they have the UFO video smoking out it’s barrel, when it is just a misidentified high school video project.

I know firsthand UFOs exist. I know how to look at material and see more than some. I appreciate believing and wanting to find evidence as badly or more than most, but there seems to be no capacity for some to appreciate science and the tried and true investigative rigor needed to confirm a true unknown. You can't convince the people who make the rules without proof they can confirm.

So when someone labels me a debunker because I might reserve my belief for better evidence, I have to educate as I can. Sure it comes off stern and dismissive sometimes. I also know the limits of science to understand some of the things we find here. But when you are chastised for demanding more information and not signing off on a low resolution video out of hand I have to either eject or educate with what little I know.

Deny Ignorance, Acknowledge Awareness.

How do you deny ignorance of radical Islam or without being interpreted as an infidel? We are in a semantic cross section of cultures, beliefs, ideologies, patriotism, truth and lies, mysteries and denials. What is good to one is bad to another.

Some things we can agree on, but even our collective very basic description of reality is filled with holes, rips and tears. The only unifying state is knowledge and awareness. With enough of that you know that you really know nothing, and superiority becomes a sign of self importance and ignorance. You step back a few strides.

So if I’m perceived as negative about the fact people are not taking into account some suggestions or thoughtful objective reflection on the ideas we have found to help determine the reality of a UFO video, or the proof of a conspiracy, then I guess I am negative.

We exist at a fundamental subatomic level because of polarity. Without night and day you cannot exist in this universe. THAT particular universe is another one next to us.

All you can do is keep people on the mat, and make sure they are following the rules and not packing any weapons of mass ignorance. Some people are just not as skilled or informed as others for varying reasons. That doesn’t mean they have no voice or right to learn. We will need to increase tolerance to compensate. We all win or we all loose.

Hey, ATS is a very crowded lifeboat from a dysfunctional world culture of control and secrecy. I’m willing to squeeze in another opinion, but I reserve the right to show them where the bathroom is on the boat.

ZG

As a relatively "new" member here (in terms of number of posts), I would like to chime in. I would have to assume that most all of us frequent other forums as well (in my case, since I ride, I spend time on a Harley forum too). This same phenomenon can be found in any internet forum. The internet fosters a sense of anonimity which allows posters to express beliefs (or in some cases, create fiction) which they ordinarily do not get the opportunity to verbalize. We all have fully functional use of the Ignore button, and it should be our responsibility to utilize that tool as we see fit. I would ask (and expect) the Mods to continue to monitor, and deal with as the situation merits, posts which are obviously personal attacks (we should be mature enough to challenge beliefs and or behavior, not the individual). I do agree with previous posters who mention that if someone blatantly posts fictional creations with the intent of baiting, trolling, or simply a means of padding their point total (which obviously points are something which I do not actively pursue), that poster should be banned (at least temporarily) and stripped of points. I believe Mods should aggresively discourage (as they already do) trolling, baiting, and intentionally posting falsities (not sure if I'm allowed to say it...being an attention whore).