I need advice please help.

People. Sitx is coming and its coming sooner than later. A combination of the economic depression and the knowledge of our government selling our country out at our expense is going to create a world war. This war will be people vs their governments like what we saw in the 1700s. Your neighbors and friends you will not be able to trust and you bet your arse you will have thieves banking down your door.

But here is where I need advice....

Lets say I have $15 to $20k. I live in a very populated big city. We all know the cities are going to be ground zero so I want to move to small town America in the middle of no where. But if I do this its going to cost me to both move and to pay for all the fees that it costs to move into a new place. That money that I would be spending can pay for a lot of food, guns, and ammo. But heres the thing. When the big cities erupt I feel it wont be just one or two people breaking in I envision 5 to 10 people breaking in and if they are all armed its not going to be easy to win 1 vs 5 or 10.

So is it worth the investment to get the hell out of the big city or should I just hunker down here stock up and hope for the best?

Wow, you really think its going to get that bad?

Not scrutiny, just wondering.

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


I not sure. I live in a pretty large city too and have no idea what I would do if SHTF. With that said there is strength in numbers I would considering talking to a few like minded friends about a plan and make sure their armed. That would take care of potential attackers.... I dunno just thinking out loud.

Originally posted by Republican08
Wow, you really think its going to get that bad?

Not scrutiny, just wondering.

I think it is already this bad. I just think that the people have not been completely awaken to the true theft that is taking place. I mean this is bigger than the stupid $700 billion stimulus that they have our nation fighting over. This is about the $8 TRILLION dollars that is being used both in front of us and behind the scenes using the federal reserve. This is about the theft of our liberties that is being taken swiftly and with no blink of an eye. This is about the theft of our homes, land, and resources. To top off the volcano we have the depression we are in and I do believe we are there. Its just being hidden well with falsified numbers and false hopes by our government.

When the majority wake up to this you will see this country explode. This Obama love affair will be over and people will finally realize there is no difference in our government. We have a two party dictatorship and the people will rise up both on eachother and on the government. Hopefully they will rise up on the bankers also who really are the root cause to a lot of our problems. So yes I do and Im preparing. I would to if I were you.

Originally posted by Wethesheeple
reply to post by tjeffersonsghost

 

I not sure. I live in a pretty large city too and have no idea what I would do if SHTF. With that said there is strength in numbers I would considering talking to a few like minded friends about a plan and make sure their armed. That would take care of potential attackers.... I dunno just thinking out loud.

Well this is why I brought this up because I am living this decision as we speak. I really dont know what to do and I know there have to be others on ATS who are like me. Im leaning towards spending the money and leaving but that will eat into my preparation budget. When I leave Im going with the assumption that my business is going to continue to deteriorate and that I will not be able to find a job so I will have to live on investments and trading. Like I said Im leaning towards spending the money and moving....crime is getting bad down here...(South Florida)

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


I wouldn't leave yet. Wait it out for a little you might get lucky and also save money. I really should start stocking up on food/ammo .45 LC to be exact.

I really hate to quote a film here, but .. your focus creates your reality.

If you see in your mind's eye that the general inclination among those around you is 'kill-or-be-killed' I would leave.

If you can muster a community; survival will be much easier.

My advice is to not over react don't do this out of impulse. But here's some info to start with
It might be wise to find a good location outside of the city, in the wilderness. Somewhere where you could hide out. Hence a "Bug out" location. I can't give you advice on what to look for as that varies in every situation.
This location should also provide enough concealment for you to stock up on your supplies.
I recommend putting them in PVC pipes with caps on the ends and burying them at locations where you can find them but no one else.
You should also research natural resources around this location, plants, wild game and water to list some.
Also It is wise to do this at different sites around your bug out location and even have a back up, location to fall back to in an emergency.
Memorize the area so that you could walk through it the way you get to the bathroom in the middle of the night.
Make a mental map.
Have a Bug out Bag at your house, ready at all times.
If you search this forum you will find information on many different BOB's including mine.
Have an effective method of reaching your location. Can you march to it or do you have to drive?
The most important part would be to consider your personal skills.
Can you make fire, shelter?
Can you march more than 15km with 90 pounds of gear on your back?
Can you trap or hunt wild animals? Can you treat various types of wounds and splint broken limbs? Do you know how to pick the right type of plant/mushroom to eat or heal yourself with? Can you shoot someones head of at 500m and are you brutal at close quarters combat? And the list goes on...
This is not to dissuade you from getting into survivalism. My intention is to show you that it's not just something that happens by wanting it... Nobody is an expert at everything but personal skills and knowledge are the most important tools of the survivalist. Train everything you can and as hard as you can.

This isn't a complete list, just a few things for you to think about. Hope I could help...

[edit on 23-2-2009 by TheDarkFlame] Some how it got messed up...

[edit on 23-2-2009 by TheDarkFlame]

I moved out of the North West Indiana area to the Southern part of Tennessee 16 years ago. Living in the hills of a very nice small city. Bought land cheap. Built a small house. Now I am working on a 16 by 88 foot under-ground house. 8 foot under ground. Living underground is cheap to live in dont need to cool it and to heat is cheap. It is quiet, Storm safe. And very secure. I predict to live under ground should cost no more than 75 dollors per month in utilities. That is water and electric. Read up on living under ground it is worth it. I have considered on starting up a company that builds under ground.

I have already started to gather more Guns and Ammo, As I live in Ca, the gun laws suck, but several of my family members are also buying guns. Nothing to crazy, a few hand guns, a few rifles, and a few shot guns. As well as several hundred rounds for each one.

A gun is not like a Y2k supply that goes bad, it is an investment in your family and future. If nothing happens you dont look silly for having them, and if it does then you will never be more grateful of a purchase.

As for me, I already moved away from MAJOR citys (used to live in L.A.) now I live inbetween San Diego county and Riverside County, Fairly populated area but not too populated, and plenty of open land around.

Originally posted by TheDarkFlame
My advice is to not over react don't do this out of impulse.

Best advice ever. Research, investigate, weigh up possible outcomes, plan, sleep on it, plan. Did I mention plan?

To use some well known phrases;

Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

and

P.P.P.P.P.P.

I too have thought long and hard about the possibilities and outcomes. I have a friend that likes to say, "You can be looking out the back window for an attack, but you can't see what's coming in at the front door." Meaning, we really have no idea what's coming, and from what direction.
Personally, my feeling is that an area you are familiar with is an advantage over an area you are unfamiliar with. If you are used to urban living, than country life could come as a bit of a culture shock. I have moved around much in life, and it's never easy. It always takes a LONG period to get used to a new environment. To come to know it, and be at ease in it, is something else altogether.
There are advantages to both urban and rural environments. You should really contemplate the pros and cons of both. A lot of people in urban environs have fantasies of rural living, and anyone thinks that they are going to leave a life of having all the necessities and comforts of life a short drive away, may find themselves seriously deluded to think it might be "no big deal..." Hunting, farming, protection are not things to learn off the cuff; they require experience.
I believe in some scenarios, urban areas may actually be better off. Martial law, one thing so many fear, may actually serve to protect people from roving gang types. I would think supplies (if they were available) would be made more available in large population centers.
If there was a complete collapse, and it's every man for himself, then all bets are off in either case. After thinking long and hard about this, I decided a few things...
1. I can not be completely sure that total and utter collapse is imminent. What if I uproot, and nothing that serious comes to pass that would require my relocating? Hasn't every generation for hundreds of years thought "the end is nigh...?"
2. If I am sure of complete collapse, what form will it take? How can I possibly plan for something that I do not know how it will manifest? I think I'm going to sit tight, with my preparations, and hope that I will have time to plan WHEN I see exactly what is occurring, and what may be a safe alternative, if I need one.
3. I will not live my life in FEAR, I will NOT make decisions based on FEAR. I do NOT know the FUTURE. I'm smart, crafty even...I can survive in rural areas, in urban areas, I can think intelligently if I do not panic, I can inspire people to come together...THEREFORE, I am already prepared for anything that I can possibly survive and I have made some preparations that allow time for rational thinking and planning...
My feeling is, you are jumping the gun (...and HOW do you KNOW FOR SURE, you aren't...) jumping from a frying pan, into the fire?

Wow... There are a few really profound statements in the above. Kudos to the ATS crew who believe one should think before you act.

In this case I think that investing in some inexpensive gear and a few books might be the go.

When you have read the books, and think you know everything, do a bug out drill for a long weekend. This will teach you that knowledge is good but practice is going to be the thing that keeps you and your loved ones alive.

Tim

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
Lets say I have $15 to $20k. I live in a very populated big city. We all know the cities are going to be ground zero so I want to move to small town America in the middle of no where. But if I do this its going to cost me to both move and to pay for all the fees that it costs to move into a new place. That money that I would be spending can pay for a lot of food, guns, and ammo. But heres the thing. When the big cities erupt I feel it wont be just one or two people breaking in I envision 5 to 10 people breaking in and if they are all armed its not going to be easy to win 1 vs 5 or 10.

So is it worth the investment to get the hell out of the big city or should I just hunker down here stock up and hope for the best?

If you are in a major city think how jammed the highways would
be if a major disaster was coming and word of it hit twitter
or other viral media.

How many ppl can grow food in the city with millions packed
into such a small area ? How much land is needed to feed
one person when the food trucks stop showing up because
our money is considered worthless due to economic collapse ?

Look at the LA riots and ask yourself if it was worse than that
do you really want to be in the middle of it.

Also you might be able to defend yourself against rioters and
looters, but try shooting a wildfire burning thru a city like
happened in California and you will find yourself coming up short.

You may beat the morons, you won't beat the fires or fumes
from burning chemicals in industrial areas.

Land in rural America holds its value pretty well, so worst case
scenario is after SitX you resell it and get your money back.

If you are nervous, just trade your car in for a used truck in good
shape and put a camper shell on it. If you have a family then get
a used travel trailer to pull behind it.

Go check out several areas and find one that will not likely be
over run with ppl when SitX goes down.

Read the Survival forums on here and Survival Blog for some ideas
on how to prepare.

You can do this on the cheap and still come out fine.

My friend got his used travel trailer for $2,500, and a used truck
without 4wd for about that same, and he sold his car for about $5,000
which covered almost all of it.

He bought a few guns, and lots of ammo, and all the long term survival
gear for under $2,000.

Make sure and get heirloom seeds and they are cheap on Ebay.

Please consider getting some Giant Golden Amaranth as the seeds are
a complete plant protein.

If you buy a small piece of land build a Mike Oehler underground
or bermed earth style home so you will not need heat or AC.

Burning wood will be seen for miles and might attract "visitors",
use a Solar Oven.

Check out survival acres for the shelf life on foods, and get some
USP resublimated iodine in a 1 oz. bottle from RAEMS in canada
for portable reusable water purification.

For stationary water disinfection use the SODIS method mentioned
on wikipedia.

The Slow Sand Filter method has been used by the UK for a very
long time as well.

Digging a well a fair distance from a river or lake works too,
and solar stills work too.

Trapping and snares are illegal because they work TOO well, get some
snare wire from your hardware store, basically small gauge brass
or stainless steel, or galvinized steel wire.

Get a copy of the SAS survival handbook, read it a few times,
and practice anything you can til you have it down.

If you want my Bugout bag list just U2U me, and remember to
check out the survival section here on ATS and Survival Blog.

Wealth of info at both, and you can do this cheap.

And if things all of sudden get better and the world returns to
normal you can always sell the dual use stuff very easy.

Good Luck to you all !



[edit on 24-2-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost

So is it worth the investment to get the hell out of the big city or should I just hunker down here stock up and hope for the best?

No one else has been this blunt, so I will be. Get the hell out now.

There. Thats my advice.

We can sit around and discuss the pros and cons, sit back and think about things, debate if cities are that bad, if your life will be better in rural America, if this is a knee jerk reaction to whats happening with the economy, BS.

Cities have a way of stealing your soul. Ive lived in many major metro areas and always felt I lost something of myself when I was there. You are nothing more than an ant in the little glass box.

Should sit-x come down or not, you will lead a better, more fullfilling life away from the rat race that cities inspire.

There is no sense in wasting your future survival for the easy comforts of an area that you can not contribute to and will destroy you any given day for the all mighty dollar.

Get out, get on with living your life for you. Should TEOTWAWKI come to be, not only will you be better off in the country, but your life will have been lived for you, by you on your terms.

Get out now.

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


Mark my words. 'Learn how to kiss ass to anyone who might become an enemy.'

Those will be words to live by to survive what is coming.

I'm out in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area (about 30 miles out from downtown). And although I've really thought about the land out in the country, I've decided to hunker down if at all possible. I have everything that I need at my house, and its amazing how much food you can grow on 1/2 an acre. The way I see it, most of the suburbanites will try to head for the hills in thier SUVs and giving me a little time until the urbanites start migrating is when the real hunkering down starts.

We have a fall-back location in a local out of the way wooded location set up just in case. And the BoBs are always ready to go.

No matter what you choose to do, always have a contingency plan, and a contingency for that contingency.

And a seperate moral dillema that I have always had with Sitx. When does it stop being looting and start being scavengers rights? If my neighborhood is empty from people heading for the hills, that is a lot of possible survival resources avaliable. I just don't know if I could bring myself to do that though.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by DropInABucket]

Originally posted by salchanra

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost

So is it worth the investment to get the hell out of the big city or should I just hunker down here stock up and hope for the best?

No one else has been this blunt, so I will be. Get the hell out now.

There. Thats my advice.

We can sit around and discuss the pros and cons, sit back and think about things, debate if cities are that bad, if your life will be better in rural America, if this is a knee jerk reaction to whats happening with the economy, BS.

Cities have a way of stealing your soul. Ive lived in many major metro areas and always felt I lost something of myself when I was there. You are nothing more than an ant in the little glass box.

Should sit-x come down or not, you will lead a better, more fullfilling life away from the rat race that cities inspire.

There is no sense in wasting your future survival for the easy comforts of an area that you can not contribute to and will destroy you any given day for the all mighty dollar.

Get out, get on with living your life for you. Should TEOTWAWKI come to be, not only will you be better off in the country, but your life will have been lived for you, by you on your terms.

Get out now.

I can agree with this. I am from small town USA and since moving to the big city do feel I have lost my soul. Im going back for sure but I didnt want to go back till I was in a position to pay for a house in full. This situation is making me look at going there faster. I would like to avoid it but I dont want to be here when the shtf.

Originally posted by DropInABucket
I'm out in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area (about 30 miles out from downtown). And although I've really thought about the land out in the country, I've decided to hunker down if at all possible. I have everything that I need at my house, and its amazing how much food you can grow on 1/2 an acre. The way I see it, most of the suburbanites will try to head for the hills in thier SUVs and giving me a little time until the urbanites start migrating is when the real hunkering down starts.

We have a fall-back location in a local out of the way wooded location set up just in case. And the BoBs are always ready to go.

No matter what you choose to do, always have a contingency plan, and a contingency for that contingency.

And a seperate moral dillema that I have always had with Sitx. When does it stop being looting and start being scavengers rights? If my neighborhood is empty from people heading for the hills, that is a lot of possible survival resources avaliable. I just don't know if I could bring myself to do that though.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by DropInABucket]

Where I am I dont even have 1/4 of an acre. I barely have an 1/8 of an acre Im telling you our house takes up most of our land. I have plans but this is why Im on here to talk about options.