Whales Lived and Gave Birth on Land

Well the link between the early cow/hippo ancestor's of Whales, before they entered the waters fully, has been found.

It is now almost confirmed as well that it was a Hippo, not a wolf like one, as debated until quite recently, due to other fossil finds.

What paleontologists do know about the first whale ancestor is that it was originally a furry, four-legged omnivore that evolved into a range of amphibious species nearly 50 million years ago, and then into fully aquatic species around 45 million years ago.

National Geographic



From Fossil records a early whale that still seemed to give birth on the land, and spend a mix of time between land and sea.

This is Similar to how we see seals and such like behave today.

The whales' teeth, well-suited for catching and eating fish, suggests the animals made their livings in the sea, probably coming onto land only to rest, mate and give birth, Gingerich said.

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WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 (Xinhua) -- Primitive whales gave birth on land, a fossil research team led by a Michigan-based paleontologist said in a paper to be published on Wednesday in the online journal PLoS.

Scientists, who unearthed the fossil in Pakistan, believe the early whales swam and caught fish at sea but also came on land, moving with their flipper-like limbs.

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Working with colleagues at the Geological Survey of Pakistan in Quetta, paleontologist Philip Gingerich of the University of Michigan unearthed the skeletons of 47-million-year-old proto-whales at a dig in Pakistan's Baluchistan province. The strange-looking beasts, which were about the size of modern-day sea lions, appeared to have the head of an ancient whale and the anklebones of an artiodactyl. With a long snout and webbed, flipperlike hind feet, the extinct species was probably well adapted to swimming in shallow seas but also able to crawl onto land with its hoofed forelimbs. It is the anklebones, however, that most excited Gingerich. Grooves in the bones indicate that the animals could flex their feet in two places, just as modern artiodactyls do.

Discover Magazine

Also the young whales unlike modern ones were born with fully formed teeth, so they could fend for themselves since birth, and therefore may not have suckled from their mother, though this is unknown.

There has always been this missing link in the records of the whale family living between the sea and land. This research which focused on 2 fossil records found in Pakistan, show that these whales gave birth like current land mammals with the Head First in delivery, unlike the current whales who birth tail or breach first.

The fossil of a mother whale with its foetus positioned to be born headfirst, like a land mammal, has been found.

The Mirror

This is fascinating, I have always wondered about the whale story, their lives and world.

They certainly have made the right choice and became the unchallenged Lions of the Sea as such.

To think they were so successful that even today the Worlds ever biggest living being is alive today in the form of the Great Blue Whale. This shows an amazing adaptation and success when we think of the size of some of the Dinosaurs.

It must of been some sight seeing the early whales birthing and living on Land then going out to sea.

I wonder how their call and vocalisations have changed since that time, or if sound was important to them on Land like it is to Wolves and other mammals now.

Kind Regards,

Elf

This isn't unknown information.
That's why whales have vestigial structures like small legs and a pelvis as part of their skeleton.

They used to be deerlike. Indohyus.

I thought everyone knew that.

Ravenshadow,

Well obviously your everyone except the experts in this area?

They are not related to the deer its the Hippo as the DNA links have shown and this NEW just about to be published work shows

DNA studies had hinted at the hippo-whale connection, but previous fossil finds appeared to contradict it. The newfound remains confirm the connection: The animals' feet and hands closely resemble those of anthracotheres, ancient land-dwelling artiodactyls that were ancestral to hippopotamuses. "This is a Rosetta stone linking whales to the artiodactyls on land," says Gingerich. "To decipher the Rosetta stone, it was necessary to get both languages on the same stone, to prove that they represent the same text. And that's what these discoveries are."

Discover Magazine

And as it is the missing link of the whale family from land to shore I think it is really interesting, and new.

Kind Regards,

Elf

I find the calls of these modern creatures the whales amazing,

Here is an MP3 of a Humpback Whale calling of Trinidad in 2000

Whale MP3

Others including dolphins and such like, just ocean noise can be found here with nearly all the different Whale species broken down to:
Whale Accoustics

I always as said have wondered how different their modern call is from their original sounds, and the same with modern birds and their prehistoric Dinosaur ancestors... I cant see a Terradactil making a sweet morning melody can you?

In reality early land/sea whales as shown above probably sounded like cows at best "Mooo" lol

The wonders of Evolution eh.

Elf.

The dog theory is more related to dolphins, no?

I believe that this is the only reason there are mammalian sea creatures.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


That information was published in 2001.

But I think you will find this article interesting, from 2007.

www.sciencedaily.com...
And to quote

Now Dr. Thewissen and colleagues discovered of the skeleton of Indohyus, an approximately 48-million-year-old even-toed ungulate from the Kashmir region of India, as the closest known fossil relative of whales. Dr. Thewissen’s team studied a layer of mudstone with hundreds of bones of Indohyus, a fox-sized mammal that looked something like a miniature deer.

So, that's newer? I thought this was the newly discovered information you were referring to, haha, sorry. Because they did think there was a canine link before the deer-theory. So the deer theory is the newest find.

Originally posted by SantaClaus
The dog theory is more related to dolphins, no?

Yep I believe so, but some time ago a early Wolf like creature was found again in this region in the Himalayas, and some paleontoligists postulated a link with Whales to.

It certainly makes sense with the cultural and societies of Dolphins, being very "Pod" or group orientated. Resembling the Pack mentality of the Dog/Wolf family.

Whereas the whales seem to prefer smaller family unit's and solitary lives coming together to Mate and feed at particular times.

I believe that this is the only reason there are mammalian sea creatures.

?? What that the Dog went to sea?

It is shown with this new research and DNA samples as shown above that in-fact Whales have a different ancestor, one that spawned also the Hippo we see today.

So it seems to be 2 separate families of mammals who moved into the sea.

Kind Regards

Elf.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

Ok then ravenshadow apoligies
.................................................................................................
Maybe not a Cow then or a Hippo, further research has found it could be a small type of Deer, called a Mouse Deer:

Deer are supposed to walk on land and graze not swim underwater

Zoologist Erik Meijaard

Well yep I would have thought so however:

That was until researchers witnessed some remarkable behaviour during two separate incidents.

The first occurred in June 2008 during a biodiversity survey in northern Central Kalimantan Province in Borneo, Indonesia.

During the survey, observers saw a mouse-deer swimming in a forest stream. When the animal noticed the observers it submerged. Over the next hour, they saw it come to the surface four or five times, and maybe more unseen. But it often remained submerged for more than five minutes at a time.

Wow a Deer underwater for an hour and just coming up five times or so...

Here he/she is:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/dd40b10009a9cd1a.jpg[/atsimg]

A mouse-deer in Borneo caught having spent 60 minutes trying to hide underwater.

So they may show how whales eveolved from land based grazers, and as the earlier info on the thread shows how they lived and birthed on land originally in early stages of adaptation then went fully aquatic..

It also lends support to the idea that whales evolved from water-loving creatures that looked like small deer.

All belong to the ancient ruminant family Tragulidae, which split some 50 million years ago from other ruminants, the group that went on to evolve into cattle, goats, sheep, deer and antelope

BBC Aquatic Deer and Primitive Whales

Fascinating

Kind Regards.

Elf




[edit on 7-7-2009 by MischeviousElf]