at what hight does the turning of the earth effect things?

at what hight does the turning of the earth effect things?

sorry about breifness, my keyboards still broke and im on "o s k"

right, the world rotates at 107,218 km/h,as does everything on it, yet we are all uneffcted. but, their must be a point where this force would start acting for or aginst this.

Think of a aircraft, is their a hight in the atmosphere where it would become harder to fly against the spin as opposed to it really to fy with the spin?

and, if that does happen, why dont aircraft capitalise on it? ( fly so that they can fly against the spin to go faster )


also, would the zone of atmosphere im thinking of be a terminaton shock ?

I would think the atmosphere would have to move with the planet to see any real effect although you can say there at times tends to be quite a bit more wind the higher up you go.

Do you mean spinning and the effect of gravity? If so gravity is a constant for most the area of earth (with a few weird exceptions of course).

I would think if anything the further you got away from the source that is spinning the easier travel would become. (thinking like a whirl pool type thing here)

Or the question could be, if you get in a plane and travel against the spin why don't you get to your location faster? Then it's because gravity is constant and pulls you towards the spot you just left so you are always traveling against gravity.

Not sure if that covers anything you were thinking but is about the best I could come up with maybe someone more knowledgeable has something better.

Edit: a couple thing I can answer.

You do capsize is a way at higher altitudes it's called stalling and the aircraft just stops but it is due to the atmosphere being less dense at higher altitudes and the engine unable to intake enough air to provide thrust. (Assuming that is the engine your using)

There are many other many other reasons for speed loss causing a stall but that is just one of them.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Darthorious]

Originally posted by Darthorious
...Then it's because gravity is constant and pulls you towards the spot you just left so you are always traveling against gravity.

your explanation here is incorrect. the reason you dont get there any faster is because you are travelling through the local atmosphere of the earth.

a car is driving down the freeway. a small fly in the car flies from the back to the front in 4 seconds...and front to back in the same four seconds. the interior of the car has its own local atmosphere which the fly is travelling in.

i have nothing more to add except that i was pondering the concept of reletive motion in a vacuum just yesterday while watching "2001: A Space Odyssey". stanley kubrick does an outstanding job of illustrating the complexities of this topic.

reply to post by boaby_phet


First off, earths gravitation field extends beyond earth, in fact it extends beyond our moon. Now of course the further from earth you are, the less earth gravity has on any body of mass.

Planes travel at the altitutde they do for many reasons, gravity is not one of them. The higher up you are, the less volume of air, the less friction on an aircraft. There is also less turbulance thus more comfort.

Oh and gravity doesnt pull you in any direction but towards the center of the earth which is down.

reply to post by Darthorious


Gravity does not pull you toward the spot you just left, it is pulling in one direction and that direction is to the core of the earth. The amount of pull is measured in Pounds in the US and the Metric system else where. The weight of an object is proportional to the amount that gravity that is pulling it towards earths center mass.

Plane do not capsize, boats do. Internal combustion engines can only attain a certain height because there is not enough oxygen above 20,00ft. Whereas Jet engines do not require as much oxygen to burn the fuel air mixture therefore they can attain much greater heights.

Think of a aircraft, is their a hight in the atmosphere where it would become harder to fly against the spin as opposed to it really to fy with the spin?

and, if that does happen, why dont aircraft capitalise on it? ( fly so that they can fly against the spin to go faster )

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the previous post explained, the gravity field extends well beyond our planets atmosphere and we most definitely use this with our various satellites we have sent in space. Its called a "Gravity Assist Fly-By" and it works by stealing a bit of the planets gravitational energy and sling-shotting yourself out of its orbit. Im pretty sure the Cassini - Huygens probe did several gravity assist maneuvers, first around earth, then venus as it shot itself with its increased speed into the deep space of Saturns orbit.

Peace

First i think the rotational speed is a bit off:
Earth's rotational speed at the equator, 465.1 m/s or 1674.4 km/h
Wiki Link

The average speed of a 737 is around 850km/h. So the difference at the equator would almost be nill. The difference has to do with the fact that the plane itself is pretty much moving with the speed of the rotation at the same time as moving in the opposite direction as previously discussed with the fly in a localized environment.

Also Think of it this way. On the earth surface you would travel 1 mile but at a higher altitude that angle of arc would be extended. Think of a pendulum. If you measure the distance closer in towards the point at which the pendulum is swinging from the distance traveled across is shorter from side to side than it is at the end of the swinging end. In essence youre traveling farther the higher up you go. The higher you go up, the thinner the atmosphere becomes. The less fore acting in the direction of the spin. If you travel in the opposite direction of the earths spin i think that you could gain minimal time but mostly would be negated by the extra distance required to fly

That coupled with the localized environment previously discussed would explain it all.



[edit on 25-1-2009 by SHNIPE]

[edit on 25-1-2009 by SHNIPE]

reply to post by SHNIPE



Shnipe, another way to explain it would be to think of a CD-rom drive. The outer rotational speed is much greater than that of the inner section of the CD.

Originally posted by Darthorious

gravity is a constant for most the area of earth (with a few weird exceptions of course).

Sorry this is off topic, but can you please provide more information about these "weird exceptions"?

The velocity that you quoted (107,218kph) is actually the Earth's orbital velocity as it moves around the Sun. The spin rate of our planet at the equator (where it is greatest) is approximately 1600kph.

Gravity over mountains might be less than normal.
There are people getting this from satellite orbits.
We do not have a need to know but this helps in inter continental
ballistic missile launches for those who want ultra accuracy.

The atmosphere must lag rotation at some altitude.
Although the jet stream and other forces have overpowering
effects at times.

Once in the air, as a plane takesoff from land, is under Newtons
Law and stays in motion as its land direction spin.

Thus the Coriolis Effect that makes airborne objects tend toward the equator.
So trade winds and such come into the toss under such situations.

ED:
A Quick Derivation relating altitude to air pressure
A small pdf download, perhaps only one part of the what is going
on in the atmosphere.


[edit on 1/27/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

reply to post by boaby_phet

at what hight does the turning of the earth effect things?

In orbit at a height of 22,236 miles (35,786km.) above its surface, you will see Earth stop spinning.

Think of a aircraft, is their a hight in the atmosphere where it would become harder to fly against the spin as opposed to it really to fy with the spin?

The higher an aeroplane flies, the thinner the air it flies through. Thin air offers less resistance. On the other hand, the higher up we go, the faster becomes the average tangential velocity of the air molecules.

So the air gets thinner but it's moving faster. Swings and roundabouts, really.

why dont aircraft capitalise on it? ( fly so that they can fly against the spin to go faster )

Haven't you noticed that aircraft begin their flights at low altitudes (where the air is thick but atmospheric rotational velocity is relatively low) and then pick up speed as they climb higher?

also, would the zone of atmosphere im thinking of be a terminaton shock ?

No, 'termination shock' is the sensation experienced on receiving a note from your employer telling you that your services are no longer required.

DISCLAIMER: sometimes it's more fun to promote ignorance than to deny it.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by Astyanax]

Yes, the atmosphere is rotating at the same rate as Earth so it makes no difference in an airplane.

But if you are going to be leaving the atmosphere the rotation does make a difference. If you launch an orbital vehicle in the direction of the Earth's rotation, you will get a boost toward reaching orbital velocity. If (for some reason) you launch toward the west, you will have speed taken away and have to use more fuel to make it up. The closer to the equator your launch platform is, the larger the boost. At the equator you will gain about 1,000mph (about 1/2% of orbital speed, not much but every little bit helps).

[edit on 1/27/2009 by Phage]

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at, but google 'katabatic winds' and that might be what you're asking about.

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by Darthorious

gravity is a constant for most the area of earth (with a few weird exceptions of course).

Sorry this is off topic, but can you please provide more information about these "weird exceptions"?

Ya
paranormal.about.com...

The use to call them visual illusions when I was a child. Some places were actually that.

However there are places that are not you can throw a ball full force and it will return straight back to your hand while standing level. One of the places I went to even had a level set out with the bubble so you could see it was perfectly level ground you were standing on and it just get stranger from there.

There was discussion that gravity in these area's seem to have pockets that caused less gravity but no one can explain why. So the area's inside these pockets everything would gravitate toward where the area that had "normal" gravity so if it was over a hill the ball would roll up and over a hill toward "normal" gravity.

Then there was discussion on something much more significant concerning this. The question is in fact is there a material in the earth that is actually partially blocking gravity in theses areas and if so what is it and how do we get it or make it. If this were the case and, it wasn't because of say 50 billion tons of such and such rock causing the blockage, then the implications would be enormous. Although with this idea, chances are it is because it's 50 billion tons of some type of rock. But if not...

I happened to live by one of these area's mentioned when I grew up and there were all kinds of idea's as to why, but no one could really prove anything at the time or even now for that matter.

Interesting stuff, thanks Darth.

I will be checking these out some more.

Originally posted by stinkhorn
reply to post by boaby_phet

 

Planes travel at the altitutde they do for many reasons, gravity is not one of them. The higher up you are, the less volume of air, the less friction on an aircraft. There is also less turbulance thus more comfort.

I've only been on a plane twice (From Cape Town to Jo'berg and back) so I can't say much other than this. The flight from Cape Town to Jo-berg was done in record time cos we had a 200 kph wind behind us (we pretty much never get winds at this speed on ground level in South Africa) and this caused plenty of turbulence. Funny thing is that my favourite part of the flight was the turbulence . A whole lot of shaking going on . I LOVE flying and I wish I could do it more often

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Thus the Coriolis Effect that makes airborne objects tend toward the equator.
So trade winds and such come into the toss under such situations.

Actually I thought the coriolis effect hurled things away from the equator, for example, tropical storms like cyclones and hurricanes. You will notice they take a northerly track in the northern hemisphere and a southerly track in the southern hemisphere

Originally posted by Lannock
. The flight from Cape Town to Jo-berg was done in record time cos we had a 200 kph wind behind us (we pretty much never get winds at this speed on ground level in South Africa) and this caused plenty of turbulence.

Thats because the plane wouldve been travelling within the jetstream. Many planes use this to their advantage to cut down flight times and to save fuel.