504 Plan and ADD

I'm looking for information, suggestions or advice from any parents or educators on ATS that have had dealings with the 504 Plan.

After having a conversation with my best friend who is also a Special Ed. teacher, she recommended that I set up a meeting with my 7 y.o. son's principal, school counselor and teacher and ask for a 504 Plan.

A little background first. After receiving a recommendation from his first grade teacher to have him tested for ADD/ADHD, we finally relented this past August (the beginning of his second grade year) and had him tested. Our doctor put him on Strattera and he seems to be doing much better in the focus and concentration department. However, he's still having problems with his behavior according to his teacher. She sends home a job sheet every afternoon that lists:

Not listening
Not following directions
Not staying on task
Talking too much
Bothering others
Tattling
Missing materials
Disruptive behavior
Arguing

She places a mark or two or however many is necessary by each one and the parent then signs it in acknowledgement and sends it back to school.

I don't have a problem with this other than the fact that he has marks every day which puts everything in a negative light for him. He absolutely hates school now for fear that he will get in trouble for the negative marks he receives every day.

I think that part of the problem is the teacher. She's a very nice lady and seems to be genuinely concerned about my son and his performance but at the same time, she doesn't seem to ever have anything positive to say about him. His self-esteem is starting to slide a little and and I'm running out of ways to motivate him.

I'm thinking of having him placed in another class with a teacher that could be more helpful but he could wind up in the same situation. I'm just wondering if asking for a 504 Plan would motivate his teacher to be a little more positive in addition to tailoring a suitable lesson plan to fit his needs.

This plan was put into effect in the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. It is supposed to help students with disabilities that have anything from asthma to ADD.

Here's a link to a website discussing the 504 Plan that I've been reading this afternoon.

specialneedseducation.suite101.com...

I hope my post is coherent enough (and in the right place) for everyone to understand. Any insight, comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Hello SoldierMom,

Sounds like the medicine isn't working then. Those are all signs of ADHD. Be careful what you give him too and do all of the research you can on websites that are not founded by the drug's creator.

I was on Adderall for about a year and it really zombied me out, but I probably could've used the attention in HighSchool.

Also be very aware that if a child had suicidal tendencies they will be highly increased through ADHD drugs. Pay very close attention to your child's emotions - if he stops having emotions then tell his doctor immediately, if he's zombied out he's probably taking too much, if he's still got ADHD as you have listed than you probably need to try a different medication.

Express all of your concerns including how long your child will be on the medication. If on medication for too long it can cause Bi-Polar, Schitzophrenia, Etc.

It's very tough battling ADHD, and I don't blame his teacher or him. It's a common disorder - sometimes over diagnosed but it sounds as though he is a rock solid case of ADHD.

I had a conversation with my friends last night regarding kids with disabilities. My girlfriend's sister was never able to gain a real G.E.D. and was denied access to the regents testing because she was put into special education. Misbehavior is NOT a good reason to put him into special education! You want that kid to grow up and at least get his G.E.D.

I would very much recommend meeting with a psychologist counselor rather than a doctor or neurologist. You haven't listed which you go to but a psychologist will meet with you and your child quite often and see if the drugs are doing anything, and how he is doing in school.

I have never heard of Strattera, but another note on these drugs is that they can cause a stunt in puberty and growth. You must have an in-depth conversation with your counselor regarding negative side-effects and past experiences with children on that specific drug.

Adderall certainly did it's job for me. Every time I took it I could sit down and write you an essay on anything. It's almost like teh knowledge and insight came out of nowhere. It also makes you pay attention, stay on task, follow directions, being prepared, and not being disruptive. These drugs should be taken at very very low doses especially at his age. Adderall is one of many ADHD drugs which are highly addictive if used at high doses.

Please, whatever you do, don't put him in Special Education. It is my firm belief that the mind controls its own destiny. My girlfriend's sister was told by the state of NY education department that she has the learning capacity of a 9 year old. Since this reliable source told her she's stupid she therefor grew up to have the education of a 9 year old. However, if you tell your child he can grow up and fly rockets in outerspace if he does good in school - now you start to see different ways of motivation.

Positive role models, extra time studying, and a change of medication are just step 1 in a series of steps which your counselor will guide you through month to month. Pay very close attention to any behavioral changes you see him experiencing, ask him about how he is feeling, and relay the information to his counselor.

You CAN save this child's life as long as you take the time and the effort into pushing him through school. I graduated without taking medication and having severe ADHD from your child's age to graduation. It's a tough lesson to learn but one way or the other he is going to have to tough it out if he wants to make it in today's job market. Don't let him fail.

reply to post by blowfishdl


Thanks for your reply. The whole situation is a bit overwhelming to say the least but I have to clarify that the 504 Plan wouldn't require him to be placed in spec. ed. I would never agree to that! It would require his teacher to modify the way she interacts with and, I guess on a certain level, the way she teaches him; i.e. more time for certain assignments, and using different methods for teaching him.

I realize that teacher's have larger classes than they used to and it's hard for them to go one-on-one with individual students. I'm not looking for her or anyone else to coddle him, just to see things from a different perspective when it comes to kids like him. He's a good boy and until this year always made good grades. His grades have improved since he started taking the medication and is back to A's and B's with the exception of one C.

The reason I mention that the teacher could be part of the problem is because when a situation arises between my son and another student such as talking during class time, she automatically assumes it's my son.
When he tries to tell whomever it is talking to him to be quiet he gets in trouble. But, if he tell her that someone is bothering him, he gets in trouble for tattling. There has to be some middle ground there.

Don't get me wrong, my son is no angel. I know he talks when he's not supposed to on occasion and in general misbehaves at times but, he's a 7 y.o. boy. Boys by and large usually do talk out of turn and can be rowdy as opposed to girls. I just think that she's labeled him and whenever something goes wrong now, the finger is automatically pointed at him.

My doctor said Strattera is not a controlled substance like some of the other drugs on the market and that's why she placed him on it. I do watch for certain tendencies very closely though.

You have the same opinion my friend does in that he's not ADD but rather ADHD. Our doctor has a differing opinion. My friend seems to think his impulsivity is the main problem but I don't know how you go about curbing that.

My husband and I have discussed counseling but don't feel a need for it yet. Like I said earlier, I think it would go a long way in helping his behavior if she brought good behavior to light and not just the negative.

He's very frustrated right now and tries really hard to do his best but I wonder sometimes if teachers really try to understand little boys and their behavior.

Thanks for the advice. He won't fall by the wayside as long as I'm around. I want him to have the best life possible and I'll help him any way I can.

Kudo's to you for persevering. It's a tall hurdle to clear when you have this condition.

Hello mom,
Boy I feel your pain. I will elaborate in a moment, but first it is imperative that I address the poster directly below you. Blowfishdl

Adderal or adhd or add meds. Do Not cause Bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia. More and more research has been done that is lending itself to support these disorders are inherited or there is a genetic disposition. So that is false and tends to play on ones fears. There have been reports of children having suicidal tendencies on SSRI's
Serotonin re-uptake inhibitors
A class of anti-depressives!

My son who is 12 takes a very high dose of adderal and has since he was 6. We tried 4 other medications before we received adderal and it just so happened to work for him.
Many medications are going to be trial and error until you find the right best one.

Secondly, since you don't have a child, then I will assume you know nothing about special education classes, autism classes or ED, that is emotionally disabled NOT disturbed classes.please do not spread rumors about something, when you are not properly informed

Now back to mom:
These classes will prove to be life saving when it comes to your child receiving Fair appropriate Public Education.
Also known as F.A.P.E. Familiarize yourself with this term, you are going to need it.

Your child once diagnosed by the school(free) or by mental health evaluation outside of school( private you will have to incur cost)will fall under the heading OHI. Other health impaired. Once your child has been identified ohi,the law MANDATES he MUST receive services by the county preferably by the school he would normally attend. This falls under fape!in order for him to reveive services you
Start with a 504 plan, however, it is not where you end!!

ANYONE
YOU DESIRE can BY Law be present at your meeting.
I will say it again YOU DESIRE!!( Google IDEA,
Individuals with Disabilities
Education ACT. Study this law It will be your best friend. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS)
I suggest the following:
The Speciial ED. Dept. Not just one teacher! Principal,
Assistant principal, his regular teacher, school psychologist, Later, occupational therapist and speech therapist, school social worker(they are there to help). You are in CHARGE!

Now I have shared a little of what you need (not want)!!

I do this because I have been my son's advocate for 7 years. He has aspergers, adhd, ocd
Anxiety disorder developmentally delayed and other emotional issues.

I live in Va. And fought the county for 5 years on behalf of my son and WON!! We were
Prepared to take our case to the Federal level! We won through hardwork, perseverance(sp) knowledge, doctors, and an incredible Education Advocaate that functioned similar to an attorney but was more knowledgable with the education system and the law!

Please understand one crucial
Thing: there is never enough money, space is limited, and the training the teachers receive is inadequate.
Please U2U me for more. If you need help let me know.

Hang in there and FIGHT!
You are your child's best advocate!!
Kind regards,
Pax

Ah, I see well I have never heard of the 504 Plan but I do have some insight seeing as how I graduated HS in 2005.

Teachers do target students. It's an absolute fact, and I think they get pleasure out of it.

Has he mentioned a better teacher that he's more interested in? It's kind of late in the year, but they might make an exception if you make a big deal about it. I had to do this in middle school because not only was I targeted by teachers who thought I was stupid, they tried to stick me with the same teachers 2 years in a row even though it was a different grade! I didn't even fail or anything! In fact, I ended up realizing later on that I was actually smarter than a lot of them and the system was just getting me down.

Do you help him out a lot with his subjects? The best way to learn and become intelligent on subjects is to go home and devote a good amount of your night to it. ADHD kids like myself are notorious for not doing homework - but if you can develop good habits early on he will continue them once he's old enough to make his own decisions. Give him a place where he has his own desk and space at home and reward him for spending an hour on homework a night (maybe with Friday as an exception).

But back to my original point teachers target students. I have been targeted by pretty much every possible teacher for every possible grade - so it's not going to get any better. In fact it's going to get worst. Once he gets into his teen years he will likely have anger towards the system since it's been getting him down. This is just why it's important to get him a new teacher, speak with the new teacher let her know what was going on. Get him doing homework for like an hour a night (turn off the TV) and give him some space of his own to do it.

Once he gets older, or depending on his maturity now, you may also want to go over his rights as a student in the public school system as well as things he can get in trouble for. Intelligence really keeps you out of trouble because if you know the documentation then you can keep yourself off of paper.

I feel for you...my heart goes out to you.

Im not sure I have much more to add, but I will tell you a story.

My brother (now 31) when in elementary school (in the 80s), kept getting in trouble and the teachers kept saying the same thing your child's teacher was saying. They kept telling him to get tested for ADD, he needs medication, etc etc.

My parents refused to put him on medication and (to make a long story short) after talking to some doctor friends of theirs, came to the conclusion: he was bored.

So, my parents moved him to some "advanced" classes where the kids were given more work, challenged more and had more 1 on 1 with the teacher.

It solved his "problems" and he ended up taking advanced classes all the way thru high school and graduated high school early.


I have no idea if your child really has ADD/ADHD or not (only you his mom can answer that), but I wanted you to know that MANY MANY children are misdiagnosed, even by doctors....and my brother is proof of this.

Hang in there...you obviously are a great mom who deeply cares for your child's wellbeing!

[edit on 11/26/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by soldiermom
reply to post by blowfishdl

 

Thanks for your reply. The whole situation is a bit overwhelming to say the least but I have to clarify that the 504 Plan wouldn't require him to be placed in spec. ed. I would never agree to that! It would require his teacher to modify the way she interacts with and, I guess on a certain level, the way she teaches him; i.e. more time for certain assignments, and using different methods for teaching him.

I realize that teacher's have larger classes than they used to and it's hard for them to go one-on-one with individual students. I'm not looking for her or anyone else to coddle him, just to see things from a different perspective when it comes to kids like him. He's a good boy and until this year always made good grades. His grades have improved since he started taking the medication and is back to A's and B's with the exception of one C.

The reason I mention that the teacher could be part of the problem is because when a situation arises between my son and another student such as talking during class time, she automatically assumes it's my son.
When he tries to tell whomever it is talking to him to be quiet he gets in trouble. But, if he tell her that someone is bothering him, he gets in trouble for tattling. There has to be some middle ground there.

Don't get me wrong, my son is no angel. I know he talks when he's not supposed to on occasion and in general misbehaves at times but, he's a 7 y.o. boy. Boys by and large usually do talk out of turn and can be rowdy as opposed to girls. I just think that she's labeled him and whenever something goes wrong now, the finger is automatically pointed at him.

My doctor said Strattera is not a controlled substance like some of the other drugs on the market and that's why she placed him on it. I do watch for certain tendencies very closely though.

You have the same opinion my friend does in that he's not ADD but rather ADHD. Our doctor has a differing opinion. My friend seems to think his impulsivity is the main problem but I don't know how you go about curbing that.

My husband and I have discussed counseling but don't feel a need for it yet. Like I said earlier, I think it would go a long way in helping his behavior if she brought good behavior to light and not just the negative.

He's very frustrated right now and tries really hard to do his best but I wonder sometimes if teachers really try to understand little boys and their behavior.

Thanks for the advice. He won't fall by the wayside as long as I'm around. I want him to have the best life possible and I'll help him any way I can.

Kudo's to you for persevering. It's a tall hurdle to clear when you have this condition.

Adhd was the first and only diagnosis my son received at age 5
This was EXACTLY how he started out!!! And his teacher, exacerbated the problem! She eventually would become so frustrated that she would humiliate him in front of the class! This incident led to his real fear resulting
In severe attendance problems!

You cannot let this teacher continue to "ride" your child this way(not saying that you are) but this turned into a devestating problem for him).he associated the entire school with this negative event. And til this day cannot even hear the name of the school without having a complete meltdown!

. Most of the time children with adhd have flooding of the senses and are not able to block out background noise. Therefore they become overstimulated quite easily and you see the increase in adhd type behaviors. Impulsivity, hyperactiveness, easily distracted, loss of concentration. The right medication at the proper dose WILL decrease if not stop. impulsivity.

As far as therapy, talk therapy will not do a lot of good. Your child will need behavioral modification therapy to address his behaviors. This is Key in meeting with success! Trust me learning the hard way.

Have you conferenced with his teacher? If she is not willing to look outside of the box, you should consider another teacher.

I'm not trying to be a know it all, but I have had, live and continue to live with the battles involving public education.

I am happy to say my son goes to attends an autism program in public school. He would not be there if my husband and Ihad not continued to fight every step of the way! For the
First time he has made straight A's and is growing self confidence.

My only reason in sharing this is to save everyone a little pain and suffering. I feel very passionate about this subject. I apologige for overwhelming you, that is not my intention

I'm calling Monday morning to set up a meeting. My friend said if I needed for her to call in as an advocate she would do it. She's someone to have in your corner on an issue like this.

Now, I have another question. My children are transfer students to this school and always have been. My concern now is if I ask for a 504 Plan, will they make me send my kids to the school district we live in because they will classify him as a special needs child?

This is a very tricky course. Obviously, I want what's best for him and that's why he's a transfer student. That's where they will have me over a barrel. I send my kids to this school because their curriculum is head and shoulders over the school district we live in.

Maybe I won't have to worry about it. It's the school I graduated from and I know a lot of the administration and the superintendent is a former classmate from high school and college.

I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that this doesn't become an issue.
Thanks for your reply and the advice. It is duly noted. I need more help with this than I first thought.

[edit on 11/26/2008 by soldiermom]

reply to post by soldiermom


Might be the most workable thing if one cannot find a teacher gifted at handling such children in the location he 'must' go to school in.

I gather home schooling or private schooling are out of the question.

I wonder if it's possible for him to meet 1-3 times a week with an older brother or uncle or grandfatherly sort of man from his church or family or a parent's social network. He needs some encouragement, mentoring, support etc. that's not tied to parents or school, imho.

Such a person would be tasked with 97% JUST AFFIRMING, ENCOURAGING AND SUPPORTING HIM with very little exhortive inputs and then only in a gentle open-handed WHAT IF sort of way.

I think I would also talk with the principle and insure that no more such papers came home with your son. If the teacher needs to communicate such to you--she can do it by email.

I would also wonder if there is a student, a classmate he looks up to who might be able to take him under that student's wing and lead him along as well as encourage and protect and interest him when such were needed.

Part of me would like to scream and rant at the system and the teacher.

On the other hand, some kids are really climbing the walls and seemingly genetically, bio-chemically unable to stop being that way without medication. I hate some of the medications. I'd rather try diet and behavior mod first. But I have to admit that some meds have brought sanity to some kids and families when nothing else would.

The idea of kids being on meds for years really upsets me.

For some kids--coffee is sufficient med.

God be with you.

There's lots on the web about such problems. I'd contact FOCUS ON THE FAMILY's website and see what they had to offer.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I was concerned about a misdiagnosis and tend to lean towards the fact that she (our doctor) did indeed misdiagnosis him with ADD instead of ADHD. According to my friend anyway, and I trust her instincts and opinions on this subject as she is a spec. ed. teacher and has a son that has ADD.

I should have said too that the doctor didn't diagnose him with ADHD because she said he sat still the first five minutes after she came in the room. Is that enough time to tell whether or not a child is hyper? I tend to think not but, I'm a layperson. Maybe I should get a second opinion?

We thought at first that we had a situation similar to your brother's and I do think that boredom contributes to it. We had him tested for the gifted and talented program after his first grade teacher said she thought he should be. He didn't make it through no fault of his own. The lady administering the test gave him a choice of finishing or going back to class. That's a whole other story but frustrating nonetheless.

I will just have to forge ahead and hopefully not waste precious years of his education doing it.

reply to blowfish

"Teachers do target students. It's an absolute fact, and I think they get pleasure out of it".

Right you are and it's sickening to know that your child is on the receiving end of it. I don't have proof that she is actually doing this but I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe she is in a subtle way.

Constantly giving a child negative remarks at any age tends to bring out bad behavior. As I said before, he's no angel but he is a boy. A lot of teachers just can't grasp that there is a difference between the way you teach girls and the way you teach boys.

Hopefully, the request for this plan will make to road ahead a little smoother for him.



[edit on 11/26/2008 by soldiermom]

Originally posted by soldiermom
I'm calling Monday morning to set up a meeting. My friend said if I needed for her to call in as an advocate she would do it. She's someone to have in your corner on an issue like this.

Now, I have another question. My children are transfer students to this school and always have been. My concern now is if I ask for a 504 Plan, will they make me send my kids to the school district we live in because they will classify him as a special needs child?

This is a very tricky course. Obviously, I want what's best for him and that's why he's a transfer student. That's where they will have me over a barrel. I send my kids to this school because their curriculum is head and shoulders over the school district we live in.

Maybe I won't have to worry about it. It's the school I graduated from and I know a lot of the administration and the superintendent is a former classmate from high school and college.

I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that this doesn't become an issue.
Thanks for your reply and the advice. It is duly noted. I need more help with this than I first thought.

[edit on 11/26/2008 by soldiermom]

I'm proud of you for deciding to do this! Please do not worry by law the school he attends has to give you the meeting and agree to whatever services you need. One more note. Do not listen when they blame your child for his "bad"
Behavior!! And they will the next place they look is at the parents. This gets tough and you need a thick skin. They are looking for a loophole in
Not having to offer services!
Bottom line is money and they don't want to spend it!

Also if they tell you he is not elligible, they are expecting you to back down and go away! Most parents do!
Whatever you do Do Not back down! Again a simple google search will explain your rights. If at all possible take your husband to the meeting. A man's contribution carries a lot of weight! No offense more than yours will
Untill they realize your not going anywhere! And the most important piece of advice I can give: DO NOT SIGN the PLAN that DAY!!! You will receive a copy. Make sure the wording is correct, check dates, tell them you are overwhelmed and need a few days to look it over. This move let's them know you mean business! And you do!! Be professional not overly friendly, and do not get too emotional! You will be and that is ok but they need to hear matter of fact from you!

If u would like I can u2u my e-mail and give you examples of what to ask for from my sons 504 at that time!

Good luck,
Paxnatus

reply to post by BO XIAN


Thanks for that website. I will check into it. We struggled with whether or not to have him tested for fear that he would have to take medication. The turning point for me was when I went to my friends this summer for a weekend and she told me that kids that have been diagnosed with this and don't receive proper medication for it tend to "self-medicate". That got me moving.

I did try diet and every disciplinary tact we could think of short of hanging him by his thumbs.

I don't take this lightly at all. My oldest son who is now 21 and currently serving in the Army had a teacher in the third grade who was adamant that I have him tested for the same thing. I did and the doctor said he did not have ADD/ADHD and that he was just being a boy. I also kept in mind that this teacher was well past retirement age. No problems after her which in my mind makes me think that school staff throws this diagnosis out there too freely. That's why I was hesitant with my 7 y.o.

And no, homeschooling is not an option. I want him to have the best and I don't think I would be able to give it to him. If it turns out that he has any more teachers like this then I would probably consider it.

I agree that he needs some outside influence. I've seen and experienced what it can do for a child. He's active in sports and used to be a Cub Scout but decided scouting wasn't for him.

Thanks for your input.