I think missionaries should be outlawed

Many missionaries do wonderful things for people in countries that otherwise would have no idea they had a choice. I see nothing wrong with what they are doing. There are missionaries I am sure, much more pushy then others, but not all of them. Making them outlawed is taking away their freedom too. The people being preached to still have a choice. But if we were to outlaw missionaries, they no longer have the choice to try to spread what they feel has helped them so much.

Originally posted by Mystery76
The people being preached to still have a choice. But if we were to outlaw missionaries, they no longer have the choice to try to spread what they feel has helped them so much.

Heres the choice you might be faced with. Your village has just been flattened by an earthquake. It's a third world country, and infrastructure and assets are slim. You lost your grandparents, a brother, and your neighbors, but you're helping your sister-in-law and her 4 kids, as well as your wife, and 4 kids. Gov't aid is trickling in, but is quickly taken by the other 14000 people needing aid. You all move to a bigger town, so walk for 2 days. When you get there, there is a large compound run by a christian charity. They have some doctors, and food, and shelters.
The camp will treat the sick, and will feed your familly, on condition, of course. You won't practise your religion in camp, your children have to go to (christian) school for some quick re-education. adults have to help build more shelters and ammenities, and help in getting more people into the camp. There isn't really anything to do, so you and the familly start attending the bible reading and teaching times.
The camp is a success, saved lives, and fed destitute famillies, and the missionaries are there to point out that this is what a christian god can do for you - much better than whatever god you have now. Food and supplies are becoming shorter, so we are going to have to start cutting down on the amount of people we have in camp - usually those most willing to further the cause can stay. Does anyone want to sign up to be a christian missionary helper?

[edit on 16-11-2008 by cruzion]

Well if that is what they are doing, they are not being very Christian. They should provide the option but not force it. I only know of a few, but I will have to look more into this. I may just have to change my opinion if that is the case. I know we hear one thing here, but what is going on there, may not all be reported. Do you have any links that would help me better understand this process? Cuz now I am curious.

reply to post by HillbillyHippie


No my post is about two guys telling people to cut the ends of condoms in an AIDS ridden country. In the name of god. I'm not making a generality of this particular story. What I am saying though, is that missionaries from the catholic roman church do have a form of obligation on pushing the popes principles. Not using condoms for example. Bring people food is fine, but telling them that wearing condoms is a sin is kind of counter productive in the long term.

Originally posted by flyingwoody

They should be tarred and feathered... held accountable for all the atrocities they have done in the name of God... Kicked out of every parrish, village, swamp, and every mosquito infested hut on earth!!!!

I TOTALLY AGREE WE YOU.... They have been thr cross carrying field soldiers for:

Pope sanctioned land grabs

Mass murderers

Lice carrying Christian Pediofiles

disease and poison

Lies

.................... THE ULTIMATE CON ARTISTS FOR THE AGES

Originally posted by cruzion
your children have to go to (christian) school for some quick re-education.

Can you point to any group of missionaries that require school attendance as mandatory for receiving humanitarian aid?

Would it be safe to assume that this is the only thing that you object to in your hypothetical scenario?


Eric

Originally posted by Level X

Originally posted by flyingwoody

They should be tarred and feathered... held accountable for all the atrocities they have done in the name of God... Kicked out of every parrish, village, swamp, and every mosquito infested hut on earth!!!!

I TOTALLY AGREE WE YOU.... They have been thr cross carrying field soldiers for:

Pope sanctioned land grabs

Mass murderers

Lice carrying Christian Pediofiles

disease and poison

Lies

.................... THE ULTIMATE CON ARTISTS FOR THE AGES

So, would you consider them to be worse than atheistic regimes that proselytize at the end of a gun?

Eric

Let me clear some things up.

First of all when I said that they should be outlawed it was merely a figure of speech. I DON'T think it should be illegal it was just my way of bringing up the topic. I agree 100% with freedom of speech (BigWhammy that was just plain ignorant and arrogant to say this was an NWO propaganda thread). And yes, when referring to the spreading of disease I was mostly talking about historically and when speaking of the loss of culture I am talking about the smaller tribes such as Native Americans (who got COMPLETELY screwed by missionaries and European immigrants alike) or the tribes in South America/Africa etc.

Secondly, AshleyD you seem like a very bright and open person, we happen to disagree on some things but I enjoy reading your responses more than a lot of the other "defense" replies because they are more respectful and therefor gain more of my respect.

Lastly, I don't agree with everyone supporting me either. Some of them tend to take the idea to the extreme, please don't associate me or this thread with them.

reply to post by flyingwoody


Interesting.
The most valid point I have seen in this thread is that those missionaries only help others to promote their own agenda. That those who are helping, often help those who have not asked for or realized they needed any help. There are exceptions of course and those exception will be what is quoted in refute.
This is so sad.

Those who participate in these missionary aid programs seem to delude themselves into thinking that they are doing gods work, when actually they are not. This is politics at its worst. Of course many of these people who have been helped seem appreciative of the assistance, because they do not realize what truly has been done to them.

It sickens me to remember one of my Christian friends who continually mailed me their newsletter in which there was an article about their church needing more funds to send missionaries to countries now free from the old Soviet Union before the cult like Mormon can get there first. This is the point I see most common in underline of the entire missionary concept. The point of helping people is a secondary concern behind expanding the religious base.

Originally posted by eaganthorn
reply to post by flyingwoody

 

Interesting.
The most valid point I have seen in this thread is that those missionaries only help others to promote their own agenda. That those who are helping, often help those who have not asked for or realized they needed any help. There are exceptions of course and those exception will be what is quoted in refute.
This is so sad.

What is sad to me is that you have such certitude about the motives of others. Your assumption that the majority of those helping on missions do so because of an underhanded agenda seems a bit presumptuous.

The people that I have been privileged enough to meet who engage in mission work have been the sort of people who also volunteer at soup kitchens, are Girl Scout den mothers, coach little league and teach esl courses.

I guess it's a question of world view, but where you are suspicious of motives and assume the worst, I would be willing to wager that when asked to assist where needed these are the type of people that don't ask how they can proselytize, but ask how they can help.

Eric

Originally posted by flyingwoody
Think about it, missionaries have been one of the biggest causes of loss of culture throughout history. Native Americans, Easter Island, etc etc.

They show up and spread disease and then try and demolish the native's belief structures and implant their own "acceptable" religion.

Also, they go and try to shove American culture into the lands. Unfortunately it isn't just missionaries who do this. Just because Americans think something is a necessity and people need to live a certain way doesn't mean other parts of the world do.

If you think missionaries should be outlawed, then do you want to scrap the rest of the 1st Amendment? Apparently, you have problem with Freedom of Speech.

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by Level X

Originally posted by flyingwoody

They should be tarred and feathered... held accountable for all the atrocities they have done in the name of God... Kicked out of every parrish, village, swamp, and every mosquito infested hut on earth!!!!

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.... They have been the cross carrying field soldiers for:

Pope sanctioned land grabs

Mass murderers

Lice carrying Christian Pediofiles

disease, poison and Lies

............ THE ULTIMATE CON ARTISTS FOR THE AGES

So, would you consider them to be worse than atheistic regimes that proselytize at the end of a gun?

Eric

They are the puppets for atheistic regimes that proselytize at the end of a gun!

Originally posted by EricD
What is sad to me is that you have such certitude about the motives of others. Your assumption that the majority of those helping on missions do so because of an underhanded agenda seems a bit presumptuous.

If you are going to refute me, try, at least just try, to be accurate. What I said was;

Originally posted by eaganthorn
Those who participate in these missionary aid programs seem to delude themselves into thinking that they are doing gods work, when actually they are not. This is politics at its worst. Of course many of these people who have been helped seem appreciative of the assistance, because they do not realize what truly has been done to them.

What this means is that most people who participate in these missionary projects “believe” they are doing gods work. Most of these same people are just too stupid to realize what they are really doing.

And as I said before, there are exceptions.

Originally posted by CharlesMartel
If you think missionaries should be outlawed, then do you want to scrap the rest of the 1st Amendment? Apparently, you have problem with Freedom of Speech.

How does freedom of speech equate to poisoning the bodies of children in a primitive culture? Poisoning their minds, or souls?
Explain yourself!!!
Freedom of speech does not give people the right to invade a country, does not give people the right to invade the homes of others, does not give them the right to stricken them with disease and pestilence and does not given them the right to impose unfounded fear into the hearts of the trusting.
Keep in mind that freedom of speech does not absolve one of responsibility for their speech as so many people tend to forget.

Originally posted by eaganthorn
Originally posted by CharlesMartel

Keep in mind that freedom of speech does not absolve one of responsibility for their speech as so many people tend to forget.

These missionaries understand full well the tactics of systematic brainwashing. You, force this on a human who only has a limited understanding beyond his realm, and you have control. But like you say... where is the responsibily for the negative impact of their actions??

History is great teacher if it's told right... and I'm sorry these righteous minded "merchants of hope" have played a negative role in humanistic relations on this planet!

Funny, doesn't this all sound like America itself?? "We want to help you stupid ignorant country's soooo much.... follow our God, then the barrels of our rifles and you will be good earth citizens..."

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Level X]

reply to post by CharlesMartel


Ok, you obviously didn't read through the thread. I have specifically said that I SUPPORT FREE SPEECH. And I repeatedly said that the whole "illegal" issue was a figure of speech.

reply to post by eaganthorn


As long as we are striving for accuracy, what you opened with was:

'The most valid point I have seen in this thread is that those missionaries only help others to promote their own agenda.'

That's what I was referring to when I mentioned your amazing perspicacity in ascribing motives to others.

Eric

Another point: How are these missionary missions financed? I see a lot of the money coming from public charity, but how is money given by the church? I mean, the Vatican isn't poor, by any standards, so how much of their money actually goes to helping the needy? How much from your own church actually goes to helping people? The Vatican is a huge land owner - so why not sell some land, and help some people? Why, because they would lose their comfy existence, that's why. They have power, comfort and influence; why would they give that away? Why, because it isn't about helping people, it's about helping themselves and keeping the masses under the spell. Just keep giving your 10%, and you'll be right with god. You can drive past the homeless shelter, and half way houses, and the battered wifes home, and you go and sit for an hour and a half at your church on a sunday and leave your $20 in the tray, and you'll be all right, you've done your bit for the cause.

Originally posted by EricD
reply to post by eaganthorn

 

As long as we are striving for accuracy, what you opened with was:

'The most valid point I have seen in this thread is that those missionaries only help others to promote their own agenda.'

Usually, the people that do missionary work really believe in the cause, and do genuinely want to help people. Their second tract is usually conversion. I would wager there are people whose only concern is conversion and new recruits for their gods army.

Originally posted by EricD
As long as we are striving for accuracy, what you opened with was:
'The most valid point I have seen in this thread is that those missionaries only help others to promote their own agenda.'
That's what I was referring to when I mentioned your amazing perspicacity in ascribing motives to others.

What, you can't understand contiguous concepts in writing?
As you noted, I opened with a comment, did you not also notice that I followed that opening comment with more information to further clarify the point or did that escape you?

Originally posted by eaganthorn
Interesting.
The most valid point I have seen in this thread is that those missionaries only help others to promote their own agenda. That those who are helping, often help those who have not asked for or realized they needed any help. There are exceptions of course and those exception will be what is quoted in refute.
This is so sad.
Those who participate in these missionary aid programs seem to delude themselves into thinking that they are doing gods work, when actually they are not. This is politics at its worst. Of course many of these people who have been helped seem appreciative of the assistance, because they do not realize what truly has been done to them.

Learn to read through ones entire post before you start to break down the message, instead of simply reading each sentence as a separate thought entirely and formulating a response to each. To do otherwise makes you appear either deceptive or foolish. So which should I consider you, honest or wise?