My gripes with the Christian religion.

There are too many polar opposites.

What if hell isn't all that bad?

What if heaven isn't all that good?

I believe in God, and, a religion, but I don't understand how people have so badly misinterpreted Jesus's teachings.

Jesus wanted to spread the truth, yet, people just thought he was offering a path to God, after life, but not in life.

That's what is ****ed up with the world. People only hear what they want to hear. They ignored all of the truthful things Jesus said and they only thought that Jesus was a son of God and ignored everything else he said until years later and they built a whole religion based on the lies about his teachings.

Does it not seem incredible that an Omnipotent God should be unable to communicate his message clearly?

Perhaps He overestimated people's intelligence or His interactive ability.

Maybe God's Omniscience faltered for a moment and He forgot that:

"People only hear what they want to hear. They ignored all of the truthful things Jesus said and they only thought that Jesus was a son of God and ignored everything else he said until years later and they built a whole religion based on the lies about his teachings."

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Jesus wanted to spread the truth, yet, people just thought he was offering a path to God, after life, but not in life.

I don't understand your feelings on this. He most certainly taught 'a path' in life as well. And that is to be holy, peaceful, forgiving, humble, etc. He also said we would know the truth and the truth would set us free. I truly believe Christianity frees its followers from Satanic oppression and delusion. It gives us authority over 'powers and principalities' and enables us to engage in spiritual warfare.

We are also indwelt by the Holy spirit so the 'kingdom is inside us' and He also offered a path to God ('Nobody comes to the Father except through Me'). It's not an either/or- it's a both. The only thing is, the choices we make in life effect us in the afterlife.

He also claimed to be the only mediator between God and man. Him serving as the link in this life effects us in the next life. Also remember what Jesus' response was when the people asked Him if he was setting up a kingdom now on earth.

Anyways, what exactly are you trying to say? Who told you Jesus only offered a path to God after life? This isn't remotely Biblical so it's not something we can accuse someone of concealing from us- it's all there for any of us to see. Is the point you are trying to make something along the lines of what the Gospel of Thomas states?

reply to post by AshleyD


That's what a lot of people say that Jesus did. People say Jesus said to them that if they believe in him that they shall be saved.

I don't think that Jesus is the only savior of human kind. I believe there have other saviors as well who have offered a similar path to God.

Jesus spread truth in many other areas of life and told people what morals to live by.

Jesus-- famous for saying "the truth shall set you free" was lied about and still is lied about by countless evangelicals.

My gripe is that while Jesus offered the truth to humanity they turned him into a pile of lies. Jesus probably did not approach everyone to tell them that he died for all of our sins. I don't think he would say that in life.

reply to post by AshleyD


Hi there Ashely

You said...

We are also indwelt by the Holy spirit so the 'kingdom is inside us' and He also offered a path to God ('Nobody comes to the Father except through Me'). It's not an either/or- it's a both. The only thing is, the choices we make in life effect us in the afterlife.

That's rather exclusive, don't you think? I'm sure you have heard this many, many, many times lol. What about those people who have never heard of Jesus? Just curious about your take on this.

Hell is like the recycle bin on your computer. Once it gets full you hit the empty button. If you were the files in the bin, you would think you were still ok. So, whether Hell is not so bad is not the issue. The fact that Hell is not a permanent abode, is the important thing.
Jesus had a capability to argue law with the Pharisees but he was not creating a religion. He was using whatever religion he found and took the best parts of it and pointed to them.
The important thing, about what has become a new religion, is that it exists because the catalyst for change had come. David was a great man but was not perfect. God loved him anyway and for his sake, God caused to rise up from among his descendants, someone who was perfect. Now, the care of all these people that God had, in order for David's son to have a place, is afforded to us, for the sake of the son. Having a value given to us, on the account of Jesus, God cares for us by guiding us to the good things that Jesus pointed to.
What I am trying to say is that a complicated thing has been done by someone, God, who has the capability of dealing with complicated things. We, as the beneficiaries of that work, have a simple thing to do and we do not have to invent some great complex religious establishment.
For the religion to be any good at all, there has to be a constant working of God into the minds of men to put those truths into affect. Once we accept the basic premise of what we could consider a new religion, it is the internal workings of our minds, with God's help, that is where the real religion takes place.


[edit on 3-10-2008 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
That's rather exclusive, don't you think?

Yes it is. Jesus' words- not mine.

I'm sure you have heard this many, many, many times lol. What about those people who have never heard of Jesus? Just curious about your take on this.

I explain my thoughts on it here:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Not in the OP but in a response to other people who asked that question. In my own humble, prone-to-fallibility opinion, I believe those who never had a chance to hear the Gospel will not be held accountable for accepting Jesus as their personal savior. This goes for babies, the mentally handicapped, or people who lived in locations before the Gospel was brought to them.

That's the quick version but I explain more in depth in the link.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

Jesus-- famous for saying "the truth shall set you free" was lied about and still is lied about by countless evangelicals.

How do you believe that was lied about?

My gripe is that while Jesus offered the truth to humanity they turned him into a pile of lies. Jesus probably did not approach everyone to tell them that he died for all of our sins. I don't think he would say that in life.

What are you basing your opinions on? Some sort of historical textual evidence or gut feelings?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


There is no other way but through Jesus. He is the true shepherd. All that came before him were thieves and robbers.

Don't take this the wrong way, Frank, but it's possible you only know Jesus from the things you have read and been told about him. It's sort of like you are a lost sheep and you hear all these different voices and you are not sure which one to follow. The good news is at least you are considering and wondering about the true shepherd - now days people are so busy with their lives, that they stay completely away from the hills that contain the pastures.

When the Jews led Jesus to his death, Pilate asked him 'are you the king of the Jews', and Jesus said 'is that your own idea or did others talk to you about me?' To me, your situation is sort of like this; the truth hasn't been revealed to you yet.

From someone who has received the truth, don't shut the door in his face - he knows you are standing there wanting in - I think you, like Pilate , don't realize what's in front of your face. Put down your barriers of what you think isn't possible and be receptive to probability. Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world, so at this time, even though it's a hard pill to swallow for some, we are dealing with spiritual things of a spiritual nature.

You have to begin to realize what is right in front of you - and then things hidden from you will be made known to you. You will hear his voice.

I was recently in another thread that dealt with Islam and Muhammad and I was presented with "prayers" attributed to Jesus and I know for a fact, they are false. Jesus never talked that way. It's not him and that person is being deceived. People who know Jesus know his voice and they will NEVER EVER follow another.

You are at a crossroad on the true path. Walk the narrow path alone. There is only room for you and when you finally arrive, the most wonderful thing you'll learn is that he was actually walking with you - and you just didn't recognize him.


[edit on 3-10-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
There are too many polar opposites.

a human failing, not a failing of god, though we are supposed to be made in his image, for whatever thats worth.

What if hell isn't all that bad?

What if heaven isn't all that good?

heaven isnt for everyone, but hell is called that for a reason, and there is little reason to suspect its anything other than what has been described by gods writers.

I believe in God, and, a religion, but I don't understand how people have so badly misinterpreted Jesus's teachings.

human agendas distort, add, alter and lie about what is factual. if you want the facts, its there in the books, you dont need a church to read the bible, thanks to martin luther, you can do that on your own.

Jesus wanted to spread the truth, yet, people just thought he was offering a path to God, after life, but not in life.

people think alot of things.

That's what is ****ed up with the world. People only hear what they want to hear. They ignored all of the truthful things Jesus said and they only thought that Jesus was a son of God and ignored everything else he said until years later and they built a whole religion based on the lies about his teachings.

the various sects have their own culture, really not any of them are so bad or heretical when it comes down to it.

though some have done some serious damage indeed, out of human greed for power, not out of any biblical doctrine.

do your best to obey the 10 commandments, accept the christ as the messiah prophesied in the old testament and thats pretty much it.

sin? seek forgiveness, strive to do better, be the best you can.

humans are a funny, yet predictable lot.

we have profound failings yet also possess the potential to create profound beauty.

we are unlike anything else on this planet, maybe even in the universe.

i wouldnt sweat it, regardless of what humans say, just pay attention to what the bible says, if you want to know christianity, forget what the pope or jerry falwell says.

read it for yourself.