The body, consciousness, and Altered Carbon

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Whether or not Consciousness itself survives the body is a good question, an interesting question, but it is wholly untestable in a factually meaningful way. (At the present time) We have no way of communicating with even creatures who ARE embodied but who have different means of communication than our own. Attempting to communicate with something disembodied entirely, with no "tie" to the brain and the language our brains have created seems to me to be an impossible task. The human mind may be a lot of things, but it seems as if it has a very hard time seeing past itself and its own biases, even in recognizing or communicating with an intelligence different from its own here on Earth.

agreed

which is why I do like philosophy - or just our ability to use imagination for that matter

some of the things we wonder about I think we can only begin to understand by discussing them first as if we already understand - let science catch up later

I just started a book "Physics of the Soul" which I found the day after this thread was started

I am in no position to judge the credentials of one Physicist over another - and theoretical science is even farther above my head than mainstream science

so I'm going to read this book with an open mind - just starting - first chapter

anyone who is familiar with the author or the book who has an opinion - I would be interested

but, you're right - we may just derail this thread

so, unless it all leads back to the original question - the only thing we can do is agree on what we're going to call consciousness - and then continue

I am actually very interested in what people think is possible - or impossible

I agree on the both the risk of thread derailment and the difficulty of continuing a discussion without some agreement about what we're talking about.

Toromos, I apologize for my part in the thread destabilization. I think maybe the best solution would be for you to come back, tell us what you perceive the topic to be, and then let us run our mouths (or fingers) again. We could always take up the "what is consciousness" question in another thread

As an aside (not that we actually need any more), I ran across a similar thread in the Science and Technology forum yesterday - I forget what it was called but it was about some guy who claims to have created an artificial intelligence that can build itself, or some such thing, and that he sees as the path to immortality by loading our consciousnesses into this Creativity Construct or something.

Obviously, I didn't finish watching the video, because the editing was getting on my nerves. But I thought it was interesting that while we were discussing this over here, they were debating whether or not it's on its way over there.

I've been reading an old book by Joseph Murphy called The Miracle of mind Dynamics (1964), and in it he claims that the body is like a record player and the consciousness is played on this like a piece of music.
That being said,
I guess you could say we're not our bodies, we are the song and the equipment we use (body) denotes how it is played.

reply to post by americandingbat


If we have to define consciousness, I think we should just use it in the "folk" sense...the way when we use it casually we know what it means...which to me seems something like "awake, and with (at least somewhat) the capacity to direct the attention from one thing to another at will" ...that's me conscious...but to be technical it goes slippery...cause we would have to define will...but in the evolved folk sense, is that consciousness, or no?
You guys's turn, now, heehee...

reply to post by americandingbat


bad, bad thread-derailer :-)

pretty sure I helped...

As an aside (not that we actually need any more), I ran across a similar thread in the Science and Technology forum yesterday - I forget what it was called but it was about some guy who claims to have created an artificial intelligence that can build itself, or some such thing, and that he sees as the path to immortality by loading our consciousnesses into this Creativity Construct or something.

this one?: www.abovetopsecret.com...

it fits with the subject - if we're trying to decide on what consciousness really is

but you're right - maybe we should take it somewhere else

it wasn't about immortality - it's about learning how the brain actually functions/makes connections/learns/grows - pure science

they see it more as a way to understanding things like Alzheimers - which I can see as being a useful thing

but, hmmmm.......

others may not agree - but I think it does go hand in glove with this discussion

but in another thread - a new thread

all I can say about that is - anyone with the guts - gird your loins :-)

meanwhile - asking Toromos to define consciousness for us might be a bit much to ask - since it seems to be something that can't be defined

because the whole idea of Phenomenology is interesting - then transferring you into someone/something new - what that would actually be like - new form - new existence - how would you adapt, would you adapt, could you adapt?

the original question is really great - maybe we should just use a cardboard stand in and get on with it