F-35 DEW Hardpoint?

www.newscientist.com...

This is an old article from 2002 that claims a laser weapon will be installed on the JSF by 2015 for use against planes and ground targets. I don't see this mentioned in the recent articles on the JSF, did the idea get scrapped?

Hasn't been scrapped - laser tech just isn't there yet.
Specifically it will need to be a solid state laser in the 100kw range. This is possible today but efficiency of the diodes and the accompanying cooling problems make for weight and size issues. All this should be ironed out by 2015 which is why they are going by that particular timetable.

regards,
Natalie~

I beleive that the STOVL vaiant will be used with the DEW in the place of the lift fan. The driveshaft for the lift fan will be used to generate the power for the sucker.

How capable are these lasers going to be?

I read the article regarding the accidental blinding of civilians etc, but what is the purpose?

Is the laser designed to replace the gun? will it be capable of causing physical damage to other planes and ground targets?

reply to post by maintainright


I think Intelgurl once said something regarding this solid state laser technology "... it will most likely be a slice-and-dice kind of thing". Of course I'm paraphrasing, but the idea is still there.(It was an old post back in '05, so correct me if I got it wrong)

This really is frightening and at the same time awesome. The capability this plane would have would do wonders for the strike department.

Shattered OUT...

reply to post by SteveR


I'm waiting for Skynet to turn on so we can have phase-plasma rifles in 40-watt range.

My ex-boss is a laser optics engineer. He is currently working for TRW (I think, or one of the major defense companies) to develop the 747 Laser-equipped platform. From what I hear, they are progressing well. Of course, the disparity between mounting a laser on a 747 versus a fighter plane, like the JSF, is huge.

But, by 2015, who knows? Look how fast computers have shrunk in the past 2 decades. Modern technology is rapidly changing and shrinking. In the next decade, we could be seeing laser mounted on fighter jets or UCAVs.

Originally posted by maintainright
How capable are these lasers going to be?

I read the article regarding the accidental blinding of civilians etc, but what is the purpose?

Is the laser designed to replace the gun? will it be capable of causing physical damage to other planes and ground targets?

The laser planned for the F-35 is a 100kw solid state system probably in the infrared bandwidth. In other words, it's not going to be dazzling and blinding civilians because the light source cannot be seen by the unassisted human eye. It may be used in a grizzly anti-personnel manner however...

As far as capability goes, a 25kw laser is potent enough to burn out sensors on a heat seeking missile at a considerable distance - therefore it would be safe to say that a 100kw laser would have even greater range and be able to neutralize an incoming threat rather quickly. Yes, Shattered is right, a laser of that power can slice through an object such as a missile with great ease.

Aside from defensive measures the 100kw laser would be able to attack other aircraft and yes, even ground based threats. There is talk about having a 100kw laser on the AC-130 once the technology is mature. That could be a nightmare for the enemy on the ground.

Originally posted by guppy
My ex-boss is a laser optics engineer. He is currently working for TRW (I think, or one of the major defense companies) to develop the 747 Laser-equipped platform. From what I hear, they are progressing well. Of course, the disparity between mounting a laser on a 747 versus a fighter plane, like the JSF, is huge.

Your ex-boss works for Northrop Grumman now, TRW was merged with them a few years back.
The 747-equipped Airborne Laser or ABL has a multi-megawatt chemical laser, possibly 50-100 times more powerful than the laser for the F-35, producing a beam approximately 1 meter in diameter.

The nature of a chemical laser is such that it takes a lot of plumbing and processing to create the lasing effect therefore the entire back section of the 747 is used up by laser's pumps etc., the center of the fuselage has the tanks of chemicals and the foward section is the aiming and sensing area.

The laser for the F-35 is solid state and takes a lot less space - once the cooling issues are taken care of then the size won't be an issue.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by intelgurl]

Very interesting

thanks shattered skies and intelgurl

reply to post by intelgurl


Thanks intelgurl.

Very informative post.

These lasers are awesome. Still waiting for one with a trigger.

Human Rights Watch identifies and provides details on a host of laser weapon programs of concern, including BOSS, Persuader, LX-5, Maglite, Saber 203, TLOS, Green Laser, Nighthawk and Y-Blue. In some cases, it appears that the very blinding laser weapons that were being developed prior to the 1995 policy (e.g., Saber 203, LCMS/TLOS) are being modified for deployment as dazzlers, with just a less apparent blinding attribute.

human rights news 1998


I remeber the outrage in years gone by when lasers were deemed to be inhumane weapons as they targetted the eyes.

First person who uses this and blinds some one is in deep trouble.

Geneva (ICRC) - The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) wholeheartedly welcomes the 20th ratification on Friday 30 January 1998 of Protocol IV (Blinding Laser Weapons) to the 1980 Convention on Conventional Weapons. This 20th ratification, by the government of Hungary, means that this landmark international humanitarian law agreement will enter into force in six months' time. "The Protocol highlights the role of international humanitarian law in preventing a horrific new form of suffering for soldiers and civilians alike. By prohibiting both the use and the transfer of blinding laser weapons in armed conflict, the Protocol may also prevent their falling into the hands of those who might use them for terrorist or criminal purposes", said Louise Doswald-Beck, Deputy Head of ICRC's Legal Division.

Red Cross

Blinding some one is evil, kill them by all means, blind them ? thats inhumane.

F-35: First Fighter to Employ Direct Energy Weapons (DEW)

Lockheed Martin is tailoring a laser DEW for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter that could be ready as early as 2010 for demonstration and the start of a full-scale development program.
Specifically the TRW/Northrop/ or Raytheon 100kw solid state laser that is now under development. Placement of this laser system would be in the empty area on the CTOL & CV F-35 versions where the lift fan would be on the STOVL version.
The area that the lift fan occupies will not only provide more than adequate room for the solid state laser, but it also can make use of the lift fan's drive shaft, (good for 27,000 horsepower), which is more than adequate to power a 100kw solid state laser.
The laser weapon's function will initially be defensive, destroying any incoming surface to air or air to air munitions as much as 2-3 kilometers before reaching the DEW armed F-35.

Below: Images from left to right -
1. The solid state laser now being developed for use in the F-35 and AC-130 (and it's successor)
2. The F-35 B STOVL version, showing the area the lift fan occupies
3. A Lockheed Martin provided image of the F-35 using the 100kw laser.



Further Reading:

"Weapon Systems for the F-35", AeroSpace Web.Org

"Lasers Being Developed For F-35 and AC-130", Aviation Week & Space Technology: July 8, 2002




[edit on 6-13-2008 by intelgurl]

i don't know if you have seen this at all but its an impressive display of what they are capable of.

100 Kw lasers ? nice!

I have heard about this. They also are talking about putting such laser devices on Navy Ships.


I wonder if this will be truly unique to US fighters. I have heard that they would like to put one on a raptor at some point, however I cannot confirm this with 100% accuracy.

Will the birts, aussies, etc, receive such DEW weaponry on their F35's?

[edit on 13-6-2008 by West Coast]

How much cooling do these things need? Even over a country where it's 120F on the ground, it'll still be -15F at altitude. Shouldn't that be enough if you open a duct that leads to the hot parts?

reply to post by intelgurl

Aside from defensive measures the 100kw laser would be able to attack other aircraft and yes, even ground based threats. There is talk about having a 100kw laser on the AC-130 once the technology is mature. That could be a nightmare for the enemy on the ground.

Boeing has ground test fired a C-130 mounted Advanced Tactical Laser. Airborne testing should start soon. Boeing.com

GlobalSecurity.org article describing some of the anticipated performance parameters of the ATL.

I have to agree with ShatteredSkies on this one. Scary, yet awesome at the same time.