Gantenbrink, Hawass, & the Great Pyramid

Howdy Dreaming Man

Yes he does have a sense of humor. I met him once in '83 before he had his Ph.d. Funny guy and well versed in Greek stuff.

That said, a "military zone" , over run by tourists? Okay

reply to post by Hanslune


What Are They Hiding? Egypt's 'Area 51'?» Scott Creighton » What Are They Hiding? Egypt's 'Area 51'?

I was in Egypt in February 1980. Perhaps Scott's thread above will clarify what is going on at Giza. My info did not come from Creighton.

I've seen Scott's thread before. He's a bit paranoid IMHO.

I've been to the pyramids a half dozen times. There is a wall around the plateau but then many tourists places do. Considering the past occurance of terrorist attacks on tourists in Egypt its a pretty good idea.

So in your own words what do you think is happening there - something Egyptologists aren't able to see.

reply to post by Hanslune
The following is why I am not a fan of Dr. Hawass. I thank you for allowing me my opinions of the man & his mission.

I have followed the news & programs off the telly for many years now. Watching everything that I find on our ancient past. I have seen several newscasts with Dr. Hawass that were rather negative. Perhaps his overbearing personality along with his official position within Egypt has a lot to do with those findings, not withstanding the political atmosphere there as well.

I realize that he has quiet a "hat to fill," in light of his tasks set within the boundaries of such a nation of fantastic culture & rich heritage. However, as I see things that he controls, he is rather arrogant & oftentimes tries "to fit a square peg into a round hole" when it comes to piecing facts together. Then at times when it seems something new is about to be revealed, he shuts the cameras off & orders his guards to escort press back to their bus. That leaves the world wondering what the heck is his agenda. With no explanations, it leaves much to question.

I honestly think that Hawass is trying to fill in the blanks of Egypt's history far too fast. No one can challenge the man. He has such political power that no one dares to challenge him. He represents a real, not imagined, political faction within Egypt, that is powerful. There is untold fortunes that flow into the country by way of tourism. Bribes, bakshish & corruptions readily abound.

I'm not sure what to make of Scott Creighton's idea about Giza actually being Egypt's "Area 51." However, I stand by his accusations about the high level of security in & about Giza. I have traveled & lived in six Muslim countries, with almost 2 years of time spent within them. I am former US Military & what I have heard from newscasts in years past, as well as Scott's photos, I am persuaded there are some mysteries being withheld from the world by Dr. Hawass.

So there you have it. Bottom line... Hawass is holding back on something important. Next question is, how does it affect the historical line that is already established? Will history books have to be rewritten...? How will it affect the political, economical, social status quo inside Egypt? Or could it be something world shakingly controversial...?

We have seen previous professionals & archaeologists make mistakes. Conservationists botched the Sphinx. The Aswan Dam Project utterly changed Abu Simbel in such a way that future man will never see it as it was meant to see. The list is long.

Perhaps he is trying to utilize all of his time before he retires. I believe that he intends to solve as many puzzles & fill in the loose cracks before his time is up. But the "symbolic mortar that he uses is untempered." He fully intends to have a legacy built around him & to hell with any who gets in his way.

My two pence.

Howdy DM

Hawass IS a bit of the fool and acts for the camera but some say that adds to his charisma. I believe it detracts. Yep the rumor is he'll retire in two years. I suspect his replacement will be a bit more reserved. I'm not sure who his replacement might be or even who is his 'lieutenant'.

The "defenses" of Giza point OUTWARDS, tens of thousands of tourists pour into what Scott calls 'area 51' on a daily basis.

In my opinion its completely silly. May I suggest you go over to the Hall of Ma'at and ask them about this. Bauval lives in Egypt near the pyramids and posts on the forum. Ask the people who actually live there, full time and in the present (I last visted in 2003, I been in the ME since 79 and left only this year) if there is something "odd" going on at Giza.

Oh yes look up the pictures from Jon he recently was at Giza and walked all over the place.

Sample


Oh and this is from Scott's website

www.scottcreighton.co.uk...

What he identifies as a security wall is a road - take a look at google earth and you'll see it. Try these coordinates 29 57 33 N 31 06 44

[edit on 28/8/08 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune


Many thanks for the leads. I will look into them.

Cheers

DM

reply to post by DREAMING MAN

Ah, the Aswan High Dam. I understand why they built the dam but, in my opinion, the history they buried with it made it a heinous criminal act.

Moving Abu Simbel was just the most visible "symbol" of that crime.

Sometimes I just have to turn off that part of my head that is fascinated by Egypt because I am so disappointed by how things are being mishandled there.

reply to post by Sleuth

Agreed. It was all about greed, prosperity, politics, money, etc. Any order that you like on those subjects.

I sometimes wonder what price prosperity really has. 600 years from now archaeologists will be kicking rocks & cursing the fallacy of this age.

Dams do a lot of damage, however in one way they preserve sites-making them impossible to loot.

The Southeastern Anatolia Project in Turkey involves the construction of 22 dams and 19 power plants

In Syria the Tabaqah Dam forms a reservoir, Lake Assad that is used for irrigating cotton.

Three Gorges dam in China.

Lots more elsewhere in the world.

Regretablly the greatest site loss has been caused by urbanization.

These have caused extensive loss of sites however hopefully in the future underwater archaeology may become more feasible and the sites can be accessed.

Originally posted by Hanslune
I been in the ME since 79 and left only this year)
Great krikies Hanslune...You were there long enough to qualify for a Governorship position!! LOL

Thanks for the info on the Dam Projects! They can take ages to build, but in time of extreme military conflicts, they can be some of the first targets. And the Three Gorges China Dam is causing some unexpected problems already. Now That is one helluva project. And you are so right about the displacement of people along those valleys that will soon become deep lakes, with completely submerged villages & towns. Talk about eminent domain issues...in Communist China..."no way...??" Iv'e been given the understanding that China is relocating many from the flooded areas & into newly built "government housing." Again, like you mentioned, the travesty of Urbanisation.

Interesting that you mentioned the point about the hiding of past evidence or any noteworthy artifacts underwater. I was actually thinking the same as well.
I am particularly interested in the Southeast Anatolian one for its political ramifications primarily. Nonetheless, do you think that this project will impede upon any Hittite or other civilization sites? I'm just curious. Sort of one of my old stomping grounds you see.

Working for Arab governments especially their Ministries of Education can be life sucking experiences!

Loss of Hittite, Hattian and unknown x, y and z cultures. Yes there will be a large number of lost sites. Those guys use to build by water sources too.

A certain amount of salvage archaeology is being done. Not enough in Syria thou.... and the Kurdish troubles slows down work in other areas.

reply to post by Hanslune

Jeez...You really have been through the "Valley of the Shadow," & I am having flashbacks of what was left of the prisoner in the movie "Midnight Express." You need a vacation. A long one. I do not know how that you have kept your sanity. Honestly. You are a candidate for the Nobel Peace Medal.

My deepest respect to you sir.

I am glad to know that you are aware of the historical losses within the valleys in Southeastern Anatolia. I am indeed saddened to know about this situation. Such a shame the price of progress. All of those areas, as you said from Hittites, Hatti, Cilician Armenia to some extent. Even Crusader outposts I'm sure. Even as for Syria I am sad to hear, for the sake of historical losses.

As you indicated, perhaps underwater archaeology will make progress.

I will be away from my laptop for about a week. Keep up your great posting. I'm sure that I will have much of your data to catch up on when I return.

Cheers

Howdy Dreaming Man

Ah well we may miss one another I'm off for 2 plus weeks in just a few days.