Are humans Von Neumann Probes?

It's been a while since this was discussed at ATS and with new members joining all the time, I felt it was worth raising again. I am proposing this based on a belief that we (humans) are technology. Whether a technology of God or an advanced race or whatever, is not the issue, just that we are technology of one sort or another.

If you can set aside any disbelief you may have for one moment and look at these probes from the perspective of Biology = Advanced Technology, you might find it interesting.

If you are not familiar with John Von Neumann, he's an interesting guy, worth a look see. John Von Neumann

If you do not know what a Von Neumann Probe is, it is a self replicating spacecraft. Better explained here.

From the same source....

In theory, a self-replicating spacecraft could be sent to a neighbouring star-system, where it would seek out raw materials (extracted from asteroids, moons, gas giants, etc.) to create replicas of itself. These replicas would then be sent out to other star systems, repeating the process in an exponentially increasing pattern. The original "parent" probe could then pursue its primary purpose within the star system. This mission varies widely depending on the variant of self-replicating starship proposed.

Given this pattern, and its similarity to the reproduction patterns of bacteria, it has been pointed out that von Neumann machines might be considered a form of life. In his short story, "Lungfish" (see Examples in fiction below), David Brin touches on this idea, pointing out that self-replicating machines launched by different species might actually compete with one another (in a Darwinistic fashion) for raw material, or even have conflicting missions. Given enough variety of "species" they might even form a type of ecology, or - should they also have a form of artificial intelligence - a society. They may even mutate with untold thousands of "generations".

Bold emphasis mine.

It has been theorized that a self-replicating starship utilizing relatively conventional theoretical methods of interstellar travel (i.e. no exotic faster-than-light propulsion such as "warp drive", and speeds limited to an "average cruising speed" of 0.1c.) could spread throughout a galaxy the size of the Milky Way in as little as half a million years.

What I found most interesting are the arguments against. If you put aside all disbelief that we could be the technology of a higher order, it makes sense.

In 1981, Frank Tipler put forth an argument that extraterrestrial intelligences do not exist based on von Neumann probes. Given even a moderate rate of replication and the history of the galaxy, such probes should already be common throughout space and thus, we should have already encountered them. Because we haven't, this shows that extraterrestrial intelligences do not exist. This is thus a resolution to the Fermi paradox—that is, the question of why we haven't already encountered extraterrestrial intelligence if it's common throughout the universe.

Well, we have, we are it. If you don't believe in aliens, then Tiplers refutation will do you just fine. However, I do and I'm one of many.

What if all alien races are a type of probe. If you are religious, we could be Gods probes. If not, it could have all started like this in the first place. Perhaps some blob evolved somewhere and created such probes. Perhaps an advanced race or being in another dimension decided the physical plane was the place to create and our biology is a form of technology. Perhaps the whole of the physical universe is technology of a species unseen.

Another objection to the prevalence of von Neumann probes is that civilizations of the type that could potentially create such devices may have inherently short lifetimes, and self-destruct before so advanced a stage is reached, through such events as biological or nuclear warfare, nanoterrorism, resource exhaustion, ecological catastrophe, pandemics due to antibiotic resistance, etc.

There are more refutations to the self replicating spacecraft but I enjoy thinking them through on the basis that we are the technology. But that's just too far out too, isn't it?

Hi, I know this is an elderly thread but after reading about self-replicating machines and spacecrafts, and after drawing out a few quick diagrams I have come to the same conclusion as you! If you have any more ideas about this topic I would love to hear them, as this is the only piece of information about this specifically that I was able to find on the internet.

Did you consider the idea that a communication system between the probes and the original creator may exist? And that the probes may work together to form different types of life life which is capable of sensory detection methods and learning, which is relayed to the creator? A kind of artificially created and slowly evolving life which is moving towards omnipresence and omniscience?

After thinking about it, I decided that it could be either one-way transmission (detection probe) in which information is collected by probes and sent back to the creator or a two-way transmission which allows for some form of instructional messages to be sent to the probes (in order for coordination).

I know I am far into the realms of fiction here but nevertheless, am extremely interested in these ideas and what other peopl, specifically you, think about them.

Cheers for reading if you did, a reply would be massively appreciated, although I am not holding out for one.

If anybody else reading this has anything to contribute PLEASE go ahead!

SAMO