Was Jesus A Messiah? Depends. You Could've Been One Too If...........

I want you to all imagine what it would be like if you woke up and you were Jesus' parents on the night he was born. You don't even know if you can feed your kids next week. Basically, you forget everything you know about everything today, even our Christianity (it wasn't invented yet) This is the only way I can think of making you understand my theory.

So based upon my interpretation of the bible, Jesus knew that his divine father sent him to earth to help mankind, he knew the people needed a mesiah so he would do whatever he had to do to help.

Now based on that information I would like you to put yourself in this situation and tell me what you would do.

You have just been born to a normal family in Bethlehem, and before you are everyone on your continent knew that the messia was to be born that day in Bethlehem. The messiah was predicted to come to earth the exact day you happen to be born.

Your mother completes the birthing process and looks at her husband saying, "I'll call him jesus." Suddenly, 3 very wise looking men show up at your door with gifts. They keep telling your parents things like "this child is special, this was child sent as humanities savior.... Your son is the son of our divine creator, the only true prince this world will ever see.

What do you think your mother and father would say.

If they had to make a decision, do you think your parents would turn down all the gold, all the gifts, from thes strangers and just say, "nope, thats wrong.... we're just normal people. Huuuuughhh, the prophecy must have meant rome or something else. I'm sorry you traveled so far but, you're wrong, all the prophecies that people have predicted over history about him are wrong, he's just the same as everyone else, our little Jesus isn't special at all." (Your parents proceed to walk the men to the edge of town and send them back from wherever they came from, gifts and gold all in hand."

I'm pretty sure that if showed up and said, "Your son is divine....we must worship him and give him many gifts. We must give your family money and presents because it is what god wants."

During this time in history-when disease, and famine went untreated and life was no where near as clean and nice as it is now.

Please everyone answer honestly... If you were Jesus' parents, would you honestly even think of questioning what these men told you? You have gold, presents, and they say you'll be remembered for eternity because you will have given birth to a messiah.

With the knowledge that humans had in that day... I personally would just go along with it....wouldn't everyone?

Just ask yourself this. If you were living back then in a very nice hut that your father personally built, but it still leaks.... Your hungry but you haven't eaten for more than 2 days. (I don't know for an absolute fact what Joseph's pay was, lets assume he was what we would call now days an ordinary joe working a 9-5.

The way I see it, having Jesus was pretty much like winning the lottery in thosedays. You never expect to win, but everytime someone gets suprised.

Its very obvious to me, you just need to put yourself in their place and forget everything you've come to know about ethics. They most likely believed that this was all true. Hey, they're wise men, they probably know what their talkin about."

People back then weren't educated in how a con works. Most didn't know how to read their own language. Even priests can become corrupt, I think they had no choice. Why did the wise men say they brought their gifts out of respect for Jesus.

Jesus was the son of god. It's not fact. But if you grow up and people constantly shower you with love and refer to you as the messiah. You wouldn't know how to respond other than to say, I guess I am.

We aquire our knowledge by learning what people do, and say around us when were babies. Jesus was blessed from birth, karma caught up towards his death.




Mod Edit: All Caps Title

[edit on 6-3-2008 by MemoryShock]

Mother Mary, she's the most

Miriam lay on her back for some persuasive lad and got more than she bargained for. When her belly began to swell, she resorted to an excuse often used by Greek and Roman lasses in the same position: a god did it. Being a Jewess, she didn't have a whole horny pantheon to choose from, so she fingered the only god she had. Clever girl.

Why do you think her husband is the unofficial patron saint of cuckolds?

reply to post by sumperson


Ok,well since this a theory, facts can go out the window!
What is it you are really trying to say? Are you saying if I was Joseph or Mary,would I believe what we've been told and just go with it? or perhaps if I was Joseph or Mary, would I be questioning it all?
As it is it looks like you are questioning the whole thing.
"Was Jesus a messiah?" and "You could have been one to if....."
I remember that Mary was "spoken" to in a garden,(olive grove maybe) and told what was going to happen, so that's out, Joseph, being the ordinary 9-5 "joe" would have grumbled about the telephone bills etc and gone with it!
So that just leaves Jesus. The son of god. The messiah. The king of the jews. The saviour of the world. The one who sits at the right side of the Father and by praying for us, or better still, "taking on" our sins, allows us to live on because otherwise, I think god would come down on us like a city of bricks
"What do you think you think your mother and father would say"


Since I read lately that if one wishes to appear wise, one only needs to say things that people allready know, however if one wishes to BE wise than one should say nothing at all!
Therefore I think they would have just gone with it, after all, if an angel of god speaks to you and tells you what must happen, than I suppose that's it, your really going to question god now are you?

"Jesus was the son of god. It's not fact. But if you grow up and people constantly shower you with love and refer to you as the messiah. You wouldn't know how to respond other than to say, I guess I am."

Jesus IS the son of god, and still IS, and IS to come again.
(though I do wish he would hurry up, but then again as "redneck" would say "be careful what you wish for"!!
If I was born the son of god, I would allready know what was before me and would have no need to question it.I do notice that Jesus wasn't told about the ending till quite close, (I remember that he was in a garden and was pretty upset for awhile when god told him about what he had to do next,as you would be!) so god doesn't tell you things you don't need to know till you do.
Therefore Jesus was a normal baby that probably cried alot and kept Joseph and Mary awake at night!!!
Also remember that Jesus was a carpenter until the age of roughly thirty, and then he went off to " do gods work "
Um, I recieved a u2u from you (I think) saying I was now a respected foe!!!
qudo's to you!!!!!
I notice that you have a lot of them (respected foes) and suddenly thought, "If I wanted to raise my points a lot, by getting lots of replies to my thoughtful threads, all I need to do is appoint a lot of people as "respected foes" and sit back and wait for the replies"
If this is your dastardly plan, then guess what?.........
........It worked....................

Some babies are not babies.
It happens.
Sometimes, kids are born, without having to go through the indignity of having to be a baby.
I knew one of these people and she was never someone you could mess with.
You had to treat her like an adult, from birth.
She sat there, sitting up on her mother's lap with her eyes wide open and watching everything and listening toeverything you said.
I imagine Jesus was like that, just like in the paintings and statues of the "Baby" Jesus.
It is not a fantasy.
My friend had been expecting and I showed up when she had the baby, at least that was what I expected to find.
Instead, I found this small person.
Shocked the hell out of me.
I used to watch her, sometimes, when her parents were away, when she was 3 years old.
She was equal to any six year old in development.
As far as general wisdom, she was equal to most adults I have known.
So, there are very special people who do exist, but you may only meet one in your lifetime.
When people met Jesus, they would have been shocked and would have followed him anywhere.
He had women who loved him and had a large antarage of them who were always with him.
The few times Jesus was alone with his deciples were unusual enough to get special mention in the Gospels.

Oops!
Sorry about that, but I forgot to answer the question!
Just in case you can not figure out the answer from the post above,
The answer is an emphatic NO!
As loudly and with as much emphasis as possible, NO!
If you think for one second you are special, you have another thing coming.
I was blessed enough to even know one of the special people,
and I would never be so stupid to imagine that I could be equal to someone like Jesus.
If you think you could be Jesus, all I can say is, YOU ARE A FOOL !!!

reply to post by skribal

Therefore Jesus was a normal baby that probably cried alot and kept Joseph and Mary awake at night!!!

NO, he was not!
See my posts, above, to find out why I think Jesus was not an ordinary baby.
He could have been talking when he was a month old.
The person I was talking about in the above posts was not studied by scientists, so you will not be reading about her on the internet.
She was born at home, in a tiny building probubly smaller than your bedroom, delivered by a midwife.
Actualy, that midwife was my sister, so, I know how the birth went, and I knew when the child was born, so I am not just imagining this story.
For all I know, God may have allowed me to be a witness to this very unusual happening, just so I can tell people like you that I know for a fact that Jesus could be real and he was not normal.

reply to post by sumperson


Now you are assuming, Jesus and his parents were real people.

Before we get to playing your imagination game, could you just for grins, prove that any of these people even existed?

If you can, then I would be willing to play along with your conjecture.

[
Some babies are not babies.
It happens.

all babies are babies, thats how it happens

You had to treat her like an adult, from birth.

are you saying you knew a newborn baby that could talk ?

She sat there, sitting up on her mother's lap with her eyes wide open and watching everything and listening toeverything you said.

thats what babies do

I imagine Jesus was like that, just like in the paintings and statues of the "Baby" Jesus.
It is not a fantasy.

imagine and fantasy are the same thing

My friend had been expecting and I showed up when she had the baby, at least that was what I expected to find.
Instead, I found this small person.
Shocked the hell out of me.

babies do that to me too


[quoteThe few times Jesus was alone with his deciples were unusual enough to get special mention in the Gospels.

Nearly all mentions of Jesus are when he's an adult full stop, not all, but nearly, boy oh boy I could go on and on. That's just this post.
Jesus was a baby, I think we could accept that. No the op is not a fool for wanting or even pretending to be equal to Jesus,thats because thats what jesus wants. It is difficult to interperate the thread questions but when you do you'll see the op is embarking on a rhetorical exercise, thats fine. he or she is not saying anything other than whats written above.
He/she is simply questioning the validity of it all, we are allowed to do that, we don't burn people at the stake anymore,
Oh and by the way, we are all special, I meet special people everyday.
If this little people baby of yours is a one in a million genius talking adult baby
then I know some scientists who would dearly love to study her, put her on the internet, and let everyone see how unspecial they all are,
Jesus was a baby.
He might not have cried every night, but he was still a baby.


Religion touches us all at some point in our lives, and it's easy to get a little over-passionate about it all

so long as we learn something every day,( oh and keep walking towards jesus too!!!) then I think we will be all be just fine.
Oh and your special too, and I hope one day you'll be as equal as me and Jesus

reply to post by skribal

all babies are babies, thats how it happens

No neccissarily.
That would be true for 99.999%, but there are some who do not have to go through that stage of development.
Just like a lot of children are born pre-mature, why not some being born over-mature.

thats what babies do

No, check it out in any book on child development.
New-borns do not have the ability to sit up and they are not even able to hold their head up, by themselve.
They normaly can not see, when they are born, and it takes a long time for new-borns to be able to recognize their mother's face.

are you saying you knew a newborn baby that could talk ?

No if you read my posts, you will notice I assert that Jesus may have been talking when he was one month old. That will mean, up to one day short of two months after being born.
To make it a little more simple to understand, I will try to explain what I meant by, " You had to treat her like an adult, from birth."
What I mean is she had the ability to observe you and had the ability to judge your actions and would remember it."
Can you imagine a child saying to you, " Oh, do you remember what you did when I asked for something and you said that I was just a kid and did not know anything? Then you did something inapropriate, thinking that I was not paying attention?"
Nothing like that actually happened, and would not have because I could see that if she said anything to me, I would have to take it seriously, and if I had a disagreement, I would have to discuss it with her rationaly.
What I am saying is she had a power of judgment of her surroundings that is not normal for anyone their age.
I got to know something about her, after getting stuck babysitting her for ten hours at a time. She was three, like I mentioned earlier, but she had well thought out opinions on everything and you had to take criticism, from her, seriously.
Any time that I can recall, that she gave me any advice, (back when she was three) and I did not follow it, I can see, now, was a mistake, on my part.

What my main point is, that I am trying to make is:
Every once in a while a child will be born, who is not like any other child, and people notice them, and expect great things from them, and once they go ahead and fulfill those expectations, then they go on to be considered a god.
I am just giving an example. One that I know about, first hand.

Here is another example.
A son of a god and a great hero. Achillies, from the Trojan war.
Watch the movie, staring Brad Pitt.
Now tell yourself, I could easily have been Achillies.
You could just as easily be Jesus.
Both are not possible.
It was the hardest thing in the world, even for these people who were born to be heros, to actually end up as heros.
And you, think that you, being born an ordinary baby, are going to end up as a god?
I think, not.

reply to post by skribal

If this little people baby of yours is a one in a million genius talking adult baby
then I know some scientists who would dearly love to study her, put her on the internet, and let everyone see how unspecial they all are,
Jesus was a baby.

I mentioned earlier that these were very independent people, her parents, who built their own little house, with no permits, and had their baby themselves and did not go to doctors.
They lived on land that they cleared, in the woods, twenty miles from the nearest paved road.
After posting, last night, I thought about her, and figured she would be 29 years old. For all I know, you may read about her, yet. Her name is Sage Fire.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

And you, think that you, being born an ordinary baby, are going to end up as a god?
I think, not.

Well, actually you have hit the nail on the head! That's exactly what I'm planning.
I firmly believe that eventually we all reach god status. It just takes a little time.
Lots and lots and lots of time.We all go through the cycle of life, from birth to death. A CHILD of three years old is a BIT more advanced in life than a newborn baby. As the op was suggesting, I replied that I didn't think a baby would be saying much. That was my humble opinion.
But, then I read a post of yours that implied that the op was a fool for entertaining thoughts of being equal to Jesus. I replied with a little this and that.
Now I get the bigger picture of what your saying, from reading your posts I see that you have met a little friend of ours, she's called a girl. A young three year old girl. They are one of gods gifts to us, she will be cute, she will have tantrums, she will say things that will astound you with her precosiousness.
Theres probably not a mother in the world who hasn't said that her three year old is the smartest....
I believe that you have met a special person, but lets not forget she started as a baby, and that's that.
The op was simply implying a "what if" scenario, and I answered as I felt, that The parents would not be worring about not believing, as they would probably allready know. As I recall mary told joseph. And as Jesus I would still be a baby and that would be that for a while.
Your first initial posts lambasted the op as a heretic, blasphemus, fool, and how dare he think he is special, then proceeded to drill "Jesus was not a normal baby" to me.
Whatever your opinion, I respect that. You have gone to the trouble of posting a truly awesome wonderful depiction of one of gods little angels, and thats beautiful.
But that doesn't change the point.
I am saying that Jesus was born a baby, and simply that is it, you are talking about a baby that you indirectly witnessed birthed. In, for some reason, a house built handmade by its owners,and what? could talk? think? say?do?
no,You are talking about a three year old.
I respect what you have said though, in your later posts as your story is really fascinating, maybe you should start a thread?
Oh and I am not a ordinary baby I am special.
So are you, the op, this thread, AND sage fire.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by skribal]

reply to post by skribal


You read more into what I was saying, than I was trying to.
I did not call the OP a heritic.
I was trying to answer the origenal question.
"You could be one too.."
OK, my answer is, no.
I am not going to be a messiah.
I just know that it is not in me.
You can go ahead and have lofty goals, for yourself, probubly above your abilities.
I will not be so ambitious.
Not when I know someone who has greater inhearant abilities, high above my own.
I can not help that a person like Jesus would have had to have started out as a very special person, outside of any ones' expectations.
As for Sage, I have a lot of sisters and have been around their children and am familiar with what can normaly be expected from a three year old.
You can think all you want but you can not change the fact that a child was born who did not have to go through the indignity of being a baby.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60


There are varied questions to this thread not just "could you be the messiah"
Which you seem to be taking afront to.
I am stating that Jesus could not talk as a baby because he was born to this world to live as man lives.In order to be born on this world and live as man lives then Jesus as a baby couldn't talk any more goo goo gah gah than any other NEW born baby, ok?


Still, all the same, it is an interesting topic, and of interest to me. If I was to answer the question "could you be the messiah" then I would have to say YES.
Yes, because if I was woken in the night by a heavenly angel whose telling me that I am going to be the next messiah than that would be that, no question. The truth of the matter is that no-one can be the messiah because that honor already goes to Jesus, the teacher.
That doesn't take away yours, mine, and everyone elses ability to one day reach enlightenment. Yes, some kids are more advanced than others, yes some babies die, yes you will meet beautifull children, and yes you will meet bad people, or people that have taken a different path. All roads lead to rome would be a good maxim here. Don't sell yourself short just yet, the word "heaven" I believe, ACTUALLY means the skies above. Have you had a look up in the night sky lately? when you do pick out a star, one day, in your next life, that could be your star. Not everyone is going straight to paradise. I most likely won't be, but I am comforted in the knowledge, that I will have time in my next life to further my journey towards the LIGHT.
Remember that jesus said that if we had the faith the size of a mustard seed we would be able to say to that mountain to move and it would do so. Now just think, lets say you've got the mustard seed faith happening, what things could you do? aren't you now just like Jesus? .....exactly.....
Tell me this, what is your beautifull SAGE doing now? is she moving mountains? or is she now a washed up ice addict taking a long path?
No offence to "SAGE" I'm just wondering....it might help to answer this.
cheers

What I mean by "You could be one too" is this.
I would bet that anyone of our parents would accept gifts from the wise men, I would bet that all of our parents would say "yes he is the messiah,"
if there son was deemed-"that special"-by men who you never met. Men who were controlled by church rulers far exceeding their power, our modern day senators and CEO's.

I am just suggesting that Jesus was put in a state of mind undeserved. He was told he was the messiah, so that's all he knew, he didn't know how regular people lived because he wasn't regular.

If you were told your child was the messiah suddenly without previous knowledge it would be an amazing blessing, especially in Jesus' time. You would thank god, or allah or whatever.

Originally posted by sumperson
What I mean by "You could be one too" is this.
I would bet that anyone of our parents would accept gifts from the wise men, I would bet that all of our parents would say "yes he is the messiah,"
if there son was deemed-"that special"-by men who you never met. Men who were controlled by church rulers far exceeding their power, our modern day senators and CEO's.

I am just suggesting that Jesus was put in a state of mind undeserved. He was told he was the messiah, so that's all he knew, he didn't know how regular people lived because he wasn't regular.

If you were told your child was the messiah suddenly without previous knowledge it would be an amazing blessing, especially in Jesus' time. You would thank god, or allah or whatever.

Except for the fact, as it written in the bible that Mary was visited and told what was going to happen, and then Mary told Joseph, so both of them knew what was going to happen.That's my take on that
Still, I understand what you are saying, that basicly Jesus, because he grew up being TOLD he was the messiah, therefore BECAME the messiah, because that's all he knew. While I understand that I don't believe that personaly, simply because then I would have to convert to muslim because my entire religion effectivly just dissapeared! and I dont really want to be praying four times a day by the clock!. I read somewhere about an experiment held in siberia, I don't know if it's true or not.But, there were these children who were contained, from birth, outside the known world, and they developed certain, powers or energies, then I think they actually became dangerous, not to humankind itself, but to their "handlers", and I think that because of this situation, were "disposed" of. The rest of the congecture involves wether any survived. (which always seems to happen in Russia!)
So it all becomes an exercise in rhetoric,
cheers