The Gullibility of Evolutionists

Originally posted by runetang

With all due respect, that thread has already been made umpteen times. You and I and everyone else knows that more anti-Christian threads are made on this forum than anti-Atheist threads, or threads made to debate Atheists on this point or that point. Every few days theres a new anti-Christian thread, its the hip thing to do, everyone wants to be a part of the Christian bashing ATS club.

What is this a contest? Is that how you're treating it?You get special god points for bashing other beliefs? Does god care that you constantly combat meaningless threads that disagree or insult your religion? Do you believe in your heart of hearts that he could find any value in bashing another belief on an internet forum? I see Atheists making bash threads and just shake my head, as I do threads like these. I'm secular and I constantly look at these threads from both ends of the spectrum and can't see sense in any of it. The only thing that can confirm your beliefs here on earth is death. Atheist or otherwise, none of us could possibly know the answer to that. I can tell you right now that these trivial "my team is better than yours" discussions are ultimately pointless as none of us have stopped breathing.

Rock it 'til the wheels fall off. I could care less. Just know that there's people from all walks just baffled by the perpetual arguments these threads lead to. And I know this because I've participated in them.



[edit on 2-3-2008 by DeadFlagBlues]

When you look at much of the life on the planet one needs to ask why cannot man evolved in the same fashion? God could just as easily started man as a one cell creature as he could have created man in whole as he is today. The bible could just be explaining the point in man’s evolution when man was finally man.

The Garden of Eden is the same way in that at some point man was no longer an innocent animal when he gained self actualization (i.e. a soul) with the apple actually representing the essence of knowledge that only man has. Animals do not do evil for they only do instinct, but man on the other hand does evil because it is not instinct and so the apple was what gave man the ability to do evil.

To me this is all one and the same...

reply to post by melatonin


And on he goes trying to drag out the continued debate that it was stated this thread was not about.
Can even you see past your bias?
Not all of us prefer to wear our grudges like crowns you know.

And don't make assumptions as to what I have done thank you very much.
Perhaps finding the quotes on a webpage and cutting and pasting is much easier than typing each of that long line of quotes from memory?
And perhaps I took what information he supplied and formed my own views rather than just took what he said at face value and not look deeper, and not warp them to justify anything?
Hmmmm? You think that could be possible?


[edit on 2-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

The only thing that can confirm your beliefs here on earth is death. Atheist or otherwise, none of us could possibly know the answer to that. I can tell you right now that these trivial "my team is better than yours" discussions are ultimately pointless as none of us have stopped breathing.

Agreed. The problem is the endless "my team is better than yours" crap usually ends in people making each other stop breathing.
Religion and science are both human things made by humans in an attempt to understand something bigger. But too many people turn them into reasons for us versus them petty bullcrud that can and often does end in bloodshed.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


Not so much as 'here to watch' but 'here to understand.' It seems many ATS members have ego issues and instead of making threads asking 'is there' they make threads stating 'there is.' Anyone who disagrees is flat out wrong. I believe the theory evolution has many holes, do not beleive in macroevolution, think some of the stuff they comes up with is about as reliable as Glen Rose's fossilized foot prints, and have no problem stating so. Even evolutionists admit to not having it all figured out so excuse me while I stand on the sidelines with skepticism.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


No kidding. Sometimes I'm tempted to make a sock puppet account just to be able to start threads like this without it always coming down to Christianity vs. the world.

reply to post by runetang


Well said, Rune.

[edit on 3/2/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
And on he goes trying to drag out the continued debate that it was stated this thread was not about.
Can even you see past your bias?
Not all of us prefer to wear our grudges like crowns.

Yeah, whatever. Mr Wraoth the purveyor of bias-free insights, heh. I have a bias, it is the bias that exists from a scientific viewpoint. Science is science.

Listen, I don't care that you believe whatever you do. You can think the whole universe was extracted from you own anus. It really doesn't bother me. As long as you keep it out of science, until you find reliable evidence of a cling-on that supports the notion that the universe came from your bias-free anus.

Christians can also believe what they like. They should just keep their non-scientific theological ideas out of science.

Your new hero, Popper, said so.

reply to post by AshleyD


Oh it inevitably would.
Look at me.
I'm not christian yet I have been accused of being one MANY times for the simple fact I say "Hey guys, nothing is completely proven lets just remember that." well more wordy than that and tainted by the fact I am given to rants and am a horrible communicator but eh.


And probly because I am a spiritualist.
*shrugs*

[edit on 2-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by melatonin


Oh - we were looking for science here?? I was simply assuming by the title of the thread that this was about anything but science! Why do we continue to bite? Maybe it's something to do with 'Denying Ignorance' perhaps? It's a job that seems to get tougher every day, does it not?

J.

reply to post by melatonin


LoL!!!
Anymore justication of assumptions you care to spew at us?
Science does not necessarily equal atheism there friend and you allude that is true so often it's silly and annoying.

And speaking of assumptions there bucky boy:

Your new hero, Popper, said so.

Not true. For the reasons I stated. Known of him for a while now. Care to share the evidence to prove that is NOT a massive (and false) off the cuff assumption?

Some people need to learn that their first assumption about something is not the last word and completely true.


[edit on 2-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
And on he goes trying to drag out the continued debate that it was stated this thread was not about.
[edit on 2-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

I would phrase it more like this:

"And on he goes trying to add substance to a thread that is otherwise nothing more than a whine about how ignorant people keep getting called ignorant rather than accepted as intellectual equals"

Originally posted by jimbo999
Oh - we were looking for science here?? I was simply assuming by the title of the thread that this was about anything but science!

Why do we continue to bite? Maybe it's something to do with 'Denying Ignorance' perhaps? It's a job that seems to get tougher every day, does it not?

J.

I dunno, jimbo. It's kinda crazy.

Ash posts a thread about the apparent gullibility of 'evolutionists', people question whether this is the case, stating the open-minded status of science.

And then the bias-free brigade arrive, providing such amazing nuggets of information like 'science can't prove stuff'. Wow. Well, you know thanks for that. I'd never have guessed that.

I assume that means any old rubbish people can pull from fresh-air must have comparable validity to theories formed through verifiable evidence. Such POMOish relativistic rubbish is a modern scourge. Thank FSM for the likes of Sokal.

reply to post by melatonin


Heheh!! You're starting to get a little testy - me too!

But unfortunately, sometimes things that most of us take as a given - you know: things like logic, reason, science, education, evidence-based research - and all those other pesky little annoyances that the ID advocates loathe so much - just do NOT seem to register with them. It's as if their brains are actually 'wired' differently...

I don't understand it either, but it is frighteningly pervasive in certain circles.

J.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
LoL!!!
Anymore justication of assumptions you care to spew at us?
Science does not necessarily equal atheism there friend and you allude that is true so often it's silly and annoying.

And speaking of assumptions there bucky boy

Whoever said that science equals atheism?

I spend half my time here pointing out that science, never mind evolution, is not atheistic. You're fantastic. You could be my new con.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Funny how those who refuse to see any opinion other than one that agrees as anything other than ignorant generally tend to have blinders on as well.
It was about self-rightous *beep*s going on and on about how everyone else is ignorant. Especially in the light that the ultimate answer on how we got here is yet to have been found.
If you have some proof as to it having been found PLEASE show me and something that has DECISIVELY shown that it was chance or a creator.
u2u me with it.

That being said I shall now abandon the thread to the jackals.

reply to post by AshleyD


There's lots of holes in it because it's new. It's humorous that people want science to account for billions and in this case at least 7 million years of steady growth and evolution in the 150 years they've been studying it, with the last 50 only having a substantial amount of technological advancements to help conduct their research. It doesn't have holes because it's a false theory or that we were "created," but that it's still relatively new and the subject is very complex at that. It's not everyday you just dig up a humanoid.

You live by a book where everything comes in an instant. 6 days and you have yourself an entire planet and it's own autonomous ecosystem. In the reality that we live in, this isn't the case. Dissecting the origin of the most complicated and intriguing animal on earth takes time. Instead of being skeptical of something that hasn't fully come to light, you could probably be contributing to finding what is "truth" instead of criticizing it from the sidelines. Same goes for those diehard supporters of evolution. I find that they usually disregard facts and theory, but believe in it because it is opposed to the common beliefs that the religious have, which is equally if not more counterproductive.

Found your new thread, Ash....congratulations on provoking more thoughts.

The term 'Evolutionists' is something I've not seen before...did you coin it? Is it an attempt te elevate 'Creationists' as a term to be respected?

If I may make a personal observation, using a term like 'evolutionist' is a little bit like our Governor-in-chief (Bush, since that was his last legitimate elected office) calling all Democrats part of the 'Democrat Party'. It is a subtle twist, IMO, but shows a somewhat smarmy approach to smearing the opposition, without being overt about it.

Ash, you come here well-armed with a canned response to virtually every scientific and peer-reviewed discussion point presented...in a way that only, well, a person of such a commitment to "faith" as you have, could accomplish.

Let's change the discussion for a moment, see what you have in your quiver. Step outside one night, or tonight if it's clear, and look up...

We are one species, on one planet, in a suburban Solar system, on the outskirts of a typical Spiral galaxy, one galaxy out of BILLIONS of others...each galaxy containing BILLIONS of stars...but, for some reason, WE, and WE alone, are somehow 'special'? The hubris required to believe this astounds me.

Did I get it wrong? It is possible, we aren't speaking face-to-face, and written communications can be mis-understood.

I'll just say, to finish this thought, that I think a far better thing to have 'faith' in is the capacity of Humans to achieve, and to improve beyond the raw animal that we are still so closely attached, because we are still evolving. Spirituallity is VERY different from 'religion'...humans are still basically naked apes, but with brains adapted to survival instincts. There is a lot more potential there, we are living through a phase, and it may yet take many more generations to achieve.

But, believing in a deity that has ultimate control over our destiny is like believing in Santa or the Sand Man...we have ultimate control over our destiny, and it resides between our ears.


[mispelled 'deity'...ah, the hand of god...]

[had to edit my edit, mispelled 'misspelled!]
[edit on 2-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

[edit on 2-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
And on he goes trying to drag out the continued debate that it was stated this thread was not about.
[edit on 2-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

I would phrase it more like this:

"And on he goes trying to add substance to a thread that is otherwise nothing more than a whine about how ignorant people keep getting called ignorant rather than accepted as intellectual equals"

Heh! Ouch!! That was another direct hit! Man, I'm sure glad we see eye to eye on most subjects Your sarcasm is deadly!! I wouldn't want to face it in their shoes

By the way - check you U2U Inbox ok?

J.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
That being said I shall now abandon the thread to the jackals.

Wraoth. Get off your high-horse, dude.

You'd think you were the only person to have read Popper. I spend hours every year with undergrads trying to explain the problem of induction and the nature of science, falsifiability and testability, and scientific uncertainty.

Try explaining the inductivist Turkey to a group of 1st year undergrads. That flumoxes them.

[edit on 2-3-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Nice post Weedwhacker. Very elequent.

J.

reply to post by melatonin


I was addressing your assumption (one amongst many) that he is my "new" hero.
I don't care about your past experiences or attempts to teach.
You made an assumption.
It was wrong.
You continued to act as if it was not.

As for the Jackals part.
Well, I find that apt, here is a thread that criticises your group's ACTIONS.
And instead of answering the criticism you turn it into yet another battle about the theories as if whether your right or not justifies your ACTIONS.
And you do it in a gang format.
As jimbo is showing. Most likely as I am typing this.

Good day and safe travels though I hope not to come accross you again.



[edit on 2-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]