Why do people insist on calling some symbols Masonic when they are not?

Originally posted by sacerd
Again I ask, how did the masons influence the founding of the U.S.? I mean that does sound like a conspiracy theory LOL.

Your question is not simply answered; Freemasonry was one of the many influences on early America; if you are really interested in an answer to your question, I'd recommend this book:

"American Freemasons: Three Centuries of Building Communities" by Mark Tabbert (a historian at the National Heritage Museum). Amazon carries it.

Originally posted by sacerd
People don't like secrets, and tend to distrust people who keep them, for good or ill. People as general rule only like secrets when they hold the answer.

Everybody's got secrets. Would you post your ATS password in open forum? No. Why? Because it's a secret. If I gave you my ATS password via U2U, what would you do with it? If I gave it to you in confidence, then I've placed my trust in you that you wouldn't misuse it or otherwise make it public. Would my trust be well founded? If you were a brother Mason, then you would be bound by the obligation to keep my secret. Does that make it evil? It's only an ATS password. You might be uncomfortable being entrusted with it, but ultimately when it is your choice as to how to dispose of such information, it is your honor that is being tested. Because you kept that secret, would others mistrust you for being a secret-keeper? That's what you seem to be implying about public mistrust of Masons. But who among us doesn't have secrets? From their parents, their spouses, their bosses or coworkers. I maintain that the ability to keep a secret is a virtue.

[edit on 4/11/2008 by JoshNorton]

reply to post by JoshNorton


Actually Josh I think Masonry goes well beyond this. It doesn't just one-dimensionally teach us how to keep a secret - but which secrets to keep and which ones not to. I think the outside world believes that freemasons will keep any or all of their brothers secrets, not realizing that we are specifically given limits on how far this can go.

How many non-masons, for example, know that a freemason is specifically charged to report his fellow freemason to the authorities for certain offenses? Quite the opposite of what anti-mason disinfo agents like to spread around.

Originally posted by sacerd
Again I ask, how did the masons influence the founding of the U.S.? I mean that does sound like a conspiracy theory LOL.

At the risk of derailing my own thread I will admonish you to employ the search function as there is a wealth of information available on this topic both here on Above Top Secret and elsewhere on the internet.

How is this relevant to paranoid people making paranoid conclusions?

In all honesty how is anything relevant to paranoids and their conclusions?

Again I stress I am answering the question in the title of this thread nothing more and nothing less. We spoke at length about the all seeing eye for example. You said that it is not masonic because the masons did not create the image. I contend that that is irrelevent because it was latter used and adopted by the Freemasons of certain lodges and that is the reasons why people call it masonic.

The individual who views it soley as Masonic would do well to see that the Eye of Providence is contemporaneously employed in several other situations and is not wholey Masonic in nature. The use of the device by others predates Masonry by a goodly amount of time.

That is true but the sad fact of reality is that people tend to focus more on paying the bills than researching the motivations and means of the local masonic lodge, and so they rely on popular media to tell them what to think.

The relience on popular media to supplement ones education is indicitive of an inherent inability to cogitate for oneself.

I don't like it anymore than you do.

Glad to see we agree on this point.

Don't forget we live in a world where Hollywood tells us who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, and if Nick Cage tells us that the Masons are a secret society in "National Treasure" then by God the masons are a secret society.

See my above point. The citing of fictitous Hollywood endeavors to support or substantiate a point or tact is flawed from the onset.

If Dan Brown Says that the Opius Day hires assassins to keep holy grail secrets then that is what people will believe.

I tend to think that the majority of members on this forum are able to seperate themselves from the least common denominator and arrive at rationale conclusions independently of writers of fiction-regardless of what they pen concerning Opus Dei for example.

Again I have done my own research you are preaching to the choir at this point.

Since you have performed this function what is your view point regarding the Eye of Providence's ancestry? Do the facts that you have encountered support or disprove my statements?

You Are right I can technically only speak for myself, So why do you think that people assign symbols to the masons when they are not inherently masonic?
Can I guess at your answer? Because they have not done the research right?

You are correct sir.

Well if you think that might be the answer than why are you asking the question?

To inspire conversation.

Were you expecting another answer?

I was expecting many different catagories of answers, all reliant upon the responders level of knowledge reagrding Masonic symbols or those that they mistakenly beleive are Masonic.

Did you even want an answer to the question?

Of course, I welcome any and all contributors on this thread as long as they try to remain civil.

If you would like to continue this discussion pm me and I will give you my home number because I apparently cannot convey my message to you in text for whatever reason.

Thank you for the offer but I feel that it would be beneficial to keep all corespondence on this thread to better enable others to participate.

You Said...

"Since you have performed this function what is your view point regarding the Eye of Providence's ancestry? Do the facts that you have encountered support or disprove my statements?"

I believe that as I had said previously, that it is not a uniquely masonic symbol but it is still indeed masonic due to later adoption by the masons.
Just like the swastika is not uniquely a symbol of the Nazi party it is indeed still a symbol of the Nazi Party,because it was later adopted by the party.

As far as using websites to research the Masons is concerned, well that is hardly the best source of information, and not one I would condone for anyone truly wishing any information about about the masons or any other topic. As I see it there is a reason that websites cannot be sited in the VAST majority of college assigned reports and essays. And to be honest I don't think that the wealth of articles would support your position, as their are many theories but only one truth.

You said...
I tend to think that the majority of members on this forum are able to seperate themselves from the least common denominator and arrive at rationale conclusions independently of writers of fiction-regardless of what they pen concerning Opus Dei for example.

I would love to agree with you, but lets try to remember that we are on a CONSPIRACY website. I love this place, I really do, but the fact as I see it is simply this...
I would venture 75-80% of the people who come to these boards do not come to rational conclusions even when given ration explanations.
This comes from a man who believes he saw a U.F.O. of alien design, and that the U.N. has far from the worlds best interest at heart.

[edit on 11-4-2008 by sacerd]

[edit on 11-4-2008 by sacerd]

"So why do individuals continually insist on proclaiming the above symbols to be Masonic when they are not?"

Well, they are when masons adopt them and start reusing them. I understand your point but you are dodging the bullets fired at you in an inconsistent and in my opinion misleading way.

The Five-Pointed Star
In masonry this is called the Blazing Star. I don't agree with your seperation between the pentagram and the five-pointed star because in masonry both are considered the same and used as a representation of the five points of fellowship.

The Obelisk
The obelisk is an ancient Egyptian phallic symbol and the ones you find outside Egypt most probably have masonic and/or occult roots. They represent the sunrays embodied in stone. As example we could use the Washington Monument where the obelisk is even ringed with a "sacred circle" representing the female reproductive power. If you would take a helicopter flight and look from the top down on this structure you would see a dot, the obelisk, surrounded by a circle. This is a very important but lesser known masonic symbol. And btw, it's exactly 555m high.

The All-Seeing Eye
Definitely a Masonic representation of The Great Architect of the Universe. Pike himself writes that the sun represents the all-seeing eye in all the lodges. There are numerous orders using it in their seals and symbols. Regarding the Great Seal there is speculation, I've read about Haym Solomon but I'm not sure what to believe here, the Illuminati sure seem to hold him in a high place. What I do know is that the back of the seal only came into play under Roosevelt, who was a mason.

The Pyramid
The word pyramid means amidst the fire. The pyramid is only built with perfect Ashlar stones (enlightened ones, so you have to be part of the club), the project is renovation and construction through revolution. Only when the new world emerges from the ashes of the fire of the old world will the project be complete, then the center stone will be placed. The phoenix shall rise again. If the pyramid on the One Dollar bill is not a masonic symbol, then what is it? Does this not represent the whole philosophy of the people who set up this mechanism to begin with?

The Bicephalous (Double-Headed) Eagle
I agree here that it's more of a symbol of power then one specifically for freemasonry. It is a symbol of divinity and I guess by the time you get to degree 33 you're practically a demi-god anyway. I do recall it being on the cover of Morals and Dogma and it has great use amongst the Jewish masons who consider it to be a symbol of Mammon-Ra, the Babylonian god of money and forces. It's also a symbol for the Hegelian dialectic process they put into practise. We recognize this dialectic in the 2 heads, the father/son(s) relationship e.g. Osiris & Horus vs Set where Horus is one with his father (through the light) but the opposite is the dark side. And I don't think it is a coincidence that the first European using it was a Templar (Guillaume de l’Aigle) and that it gradually became a symbol of perfection, which could also explain why the masons would use it as a reward for very high degrees. It has many meanings and a rich history.


I recognize that masons did not invent these symbols and am not trying to kick shins here but they are used extensively (and I love discussing this stuff). I'm quite sure a few masons will find your view on things rather black and white. I agree that mostly uninformed people shouldn't stick labels on everything they see but actually go digg deeper to find what the real meaning(s) could be and go from there but most of the time when someone assumes they are seeing a masonic symbol I have to say they are correct. And it's no surprise because masonry has defined our history for so long, it's only normal that we are surrounded by their symbols. It's like looking at the bars of your jail cell imo.

reply to post by raknjak


Of your list only one symbol is used with any regularity within freemasonry (the all seeing eye). The 5-pointed star is less commonly found, but still used within freemasonry. However, and this is an important distinction, the all-seeing eye (being primarily an 18th century symbol) is now less frequently used and consequently (rightly or wrongly) more readily associated with freemasonry by the general public. 5-pointed stars are extremely common symbols utilized in a myriad of different ways.

Pyramids, Obelisks and Double-Headed Eagles are not masonic symbols, are not representative of anything and are not moralized upon in any way within freemasonry. I believe the double-headed eagle may be used in one or more of the side orders.

Originally posted by sacerd
I believe that as I had said previously, that it is not a uniquely masonic symbol but it is still indeed masonic due to later adoption by the masons.

I would be likely to concur with your statement if the Eye of Providence was not also being employed contemporaneously by other groups or orginizations. While I agree with you that the emblem is not uniquely Masonic the incorporation of the symbol does not necessarily cause the Eye of Providence to become Masonic as it is not even mentioned in some jurisdictions.

As far as using websites to research the Masons is concerned, well that is hardly the best source of information, and not one I would condone for anyone truly wishing any information about about the masons or any other topic. As I see it there is a reason that websites cannot be sited in the VAST majority of college assigned reports and essays.

To totally disregard a particular medium does not do justice to ones research. The internet can be carefully perused with germain and verifiable articles being culled to support or refute a claim. Furthermore, the abilty to review published works is enhanced as one might have never had the opportunity to otherwise view them.

And to be honest I don't think that the wealth of articles would support your position, as their are many theories but only one truth.

Do you care to direct me to these articles you mentioned? If there are indeed a wealth of them pertaining to the topic I would appreciate you presenting them to support your position.

I would love to agree with you, but lets try to remember that we are on a CONSPIRACY website. I love this place, I really do, but the fact as I see it is simply this...
I would venture 75-80% of the people who come to these boards do not come to rational conclusions even when given ration explanations.

I tend to be more opptomistic in this regard, I feel that if your carefully and thoroughly explain a point or position an understanding can be achieved.

...and that the U.N. has far from the worlds best interest at heart.

I wholeheartedly agree with you in that regard.

Originally posted by raknjak
Well, they are when masons adopt them and start reusing them. I understand your point but you are dodging the bullets fired at you in an inconsistent and in my opinion misleading way.

Your opinion is duely noted, but I feel I have been extermely consistent in my stance.

The Five-Pointed Star
In masonry this is called the Blazing Star. I don't agree with your seperation between the pentagram and the five-pointed star because in masonry both are considered the same and used as a representation of the five points of fellowship.

This is patently false as nowhere in Masonic ritual is a five-pointed star mentioned or depicted. Furthermore, The Blazing Star, which first appeared on early tracing boards, was often depicted with fifteen or sixteen points.

The Obelisk
The obelisk is an ancient Egyptian phallic symbol and the ones you find outside Egypt most probably have masonic and/or occult roots....This is a very important but lesser known masonic symbol.

There is a rather long and contentious thread here that delves into obelisks and thier origins. Suffice to say that there was no evidence to support your claim of obelisks having Masonic pedigrees.

The All-Seeing Eye
Definitely a Masonic representation of The Great Architect of the Universe.

I concur completely with this statement.

Pike himself writes that the sun represents the all-seeing eye in all the lodges.

While pike is often times cited as an 'authority' regarding Masonry is was one person offering is opinion and stated such. The Sun in Masonry represents the Worshipful Master and not the All Seeing Eye.

There are numerous orders using it in their seals and symbols.

I agree oncemore, as the Eye of Providence is found frequently employed by other groups or socities.

Regarding the Great Seal there is speculation, I've read about Haym Solomon but I'm not sure what to believe here, the Illuminati sure seem to hold him in a high place.

The alleged rumor regarding Haym Solomon and the Great Seal involves the supposed placement of the Star of David shaped glory and not the Eye itself.

What I do know is that the back of the seal only came into play under Roosevelt, who was a mason.

It was actually 'in play' for 140 years prior to this point as it was held by The Secretary of State and used to affix all documents and treaties involving other countries.

The Pyramid
If the pyramid on the One Dollar bill is not a masonic symbol, then what is it? Does this not represent the whole philosophy of the people who set up this mechanism to begin with?

Pyramids are not Masonic symbols and make no appearence in Masonic ritual. The philosophy behind its incorporation into the Great Seal is to symbolize the unfinished state of the country.

The Bicephalous (Double-Headed) Eagle
I agree here that it's more of a symbol of power then one specifically for freemasonry. It is a symbol of divinity and I guess by the time you get to degree 33 you're practically a demi-god anyway.

How does receiving a honorary degree cause one to become demi-godlike?

I recognize that masons did not invent these symbols and am not trying to kick shins here but they are used extensively (and I love discussing this stuff).

As Trinityman previously mentioned, only the All Seeing Eye is employed in Masonry, but this does not negate its far older pedigree and contemporary usage by others.

I'm quite sure a few masons will find your view on things rather black and white.

The truth typically is, but I would welcome their comments as well.

I agree that mostly uninformed people shouldn't stick labels on everything they see but actually go digg deeper to find what the real meaning(s) could be and go from there but most of the time when someone assumes they are seeing a masonic symbol I have to say they are correct.

Asserting a point and proving a point are two very disparate things. You have done the former by have not offered evidence to support the latter.

And it's no surprise because masonry has defined our history for so long, it's only normal that we are surrounded by their symbols.

Our country's history has not been defined by the particiaption of Masons, it may have been enhanced or aided but the ideals of freedom are not solely held by Masons but belong to all mankind.

It's like looking at the bars of your jail cell imo.

Are you implying that you feel imprisoned by symbols and emblems which you construe as Masonic?

I would be likely to concur with your statement if the Eye of Providence was not also being employed contemporaneously by other groups or orginizations. While I agree with you that the emblem is not uniquely Masonic the incorporation of the symbol does not necessarily cause the Eye of Providence to become Masonic as it is not even mentioned in some jurisdictions.

I feel that we may have to agree to disagree on this point.

To totally disregard a particular medium does not do justice to ones research. The internet can be carefully perused with germain and verifiable articles being culled to support or refute a claim. Furthermore, the abilty to review published works is enhanced as one might have never had the opportunity to otherwise view them.

I personally use the internet for research, but primarily as a jumping off point, to give me a focused direction or for "late breaking" kinda stuff that may never be used in the mainstream media.

Do you care to direct me to these articles you mentioned? If there are indeed a wealth of them pertaining to the topic I would appreciate you presenting them to support your position.

Sure. Everyone paying attention to this thread do a google search. Type in "Masons symbols."

I tend to be more opptomistic in this regard, I feel that if your carefully and thoroughly explain a point or position an understanding can be achieved.

I think that the best you can hope for in most cases, is maybe an understanding of their viewpoint and hopefully them understanding yours. After that things tend to get bleak.

Originally posted by sacerd
Sure. Everyone paying attention to this thread do a google search. Type in "Masons symbols."

While I heeded your suggestion to Google the phrase you mentioned, there is no way for me to determine what specific articles you encountered that you feel support your position. Once more, can you please direct me to the relevant information you have viewed that disproves my comments

...exteremely consistent in my stance.

True, inconsistent wasn't the correct choice of words.

raknjak: The Five-Pointed Star ...

This is patently false as nowhere in Masonic ritual is a five-pointed star mentioned or depicted...

I have checked books written by masons and most of the time they do not make the distinction between a five-pointed star and a pentagram. Maybe they are incorrect but most of the time when several sources confirm the same thing I can assume it to be close to the truth.
www.mastermason.com...: on the top of this page there are 5 images which show me some of the symbols discussed here. I see a five-pointed star in the first, I'm quite sure it's a dove in the 2nd, the 3rd and 5th use the double eagle.
www.brad.ac.uk...: this page shows you that a "Pentagram, or Blazing Star" is used in the 24th degree.

raknjak: The Obelisk ...

There is a rather long and contentious thread here that delves into obelisks and thier origins. Suffice to say that there was no evidence to support your claim of obelisks having Masonic pedigrees.

Well I read that thread before I posted here and here is an interesting piece from an insider:
www.huguenotlodge46fam.com....

The All-Seeing Eye

While pike is often times cited as an 'authority' regarding Masonry is was one person offering is opinion and stated such. The Sun in Masonry represents the Worshipful Master and not the All Seeing Eye.

That's the big problem for me, some masons think Pike is an authority and others don't, just like Manley P. Hall, which is confusing for the questioning mind.

raknjak: Regarding the Great Seal there is speculation, I've read about Haym Solomon but I'm not sure what to believe here, the Illuminati sure seem to hold him in a high place.

The alleged rumor regarding Haym Solomon and the Great Seal involves the supposed placement of the Star of David shaped glory and not the Eye itself.

Pyramids are not Masonic symbols and make no appearence in Masonic ritual. The philosophy behind its incorporation into the Great Seal is to symbolize the unfinished state of the country.

Ah right I mixed it up. Regarding the pyramid on the dollar, the question I ask myself is: why a pyramid? why an all-seeing-eye within a triangle? Why Egyptian to begin with? Just a coincidence? Again? The official explanation does not answer these questions and any serious historian wouldn't be satisfied either. Furthermore there is evidence that the Greal Seal in fact IS a masonic symbol:
- quote from Manley P. Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages": "Careful analysis of the seal discloses a mass of occult and masonic symbols chief among them, the so-called American Eagle. ... the American eagle upon the Great Seal is but a conventionalised phoenix..."
- image taken from an old Scottish Rite Journal:

... demi-godlike?

Become your own god through enlightenment as your circle of illumination grows bigger.

raknjak: I agree that mostly uninformed people shouldn't stick labels on everyt...

Asserting a point and proving a point are two very disparate things. You have done the former by have not offered evidence to support the latter.

Well I think I made a pretty strong case using examples, I'm assuming you already know everything explained here and didn't think I would have to prove my point with extra articles or links.


--> continued below

-->part II

While I heeded your suggestion to Google the phrase you mentioned, there is no way for me to determine what specific articles you encountered that you feel support your position. Once more, can you please direct me to the relevant information you have viewed that disproves my comments

Well if you will notice the huge amount of disinformation found in alot of those articles. That is my point. You suggested that the internet is good source of information about the masons I contend that it is not.
While yes one can find worthwhile information on the internet you have to wade through an enormous amount of bias to get to the gold so to speak. When one is pressed for time, what with working full time jobs and being a parents I dont know that the time spent wading through the internet to prove or disprove anything that deals with the Masons/Aliens/FEMA camps or anything else "controversial" will truly help anyones case in that endeavor.
I am apparently not alone in this, as in most academic circles citing a internet source will get you laughed out of the lecture hall.
The goal is not to "disprove" your point so much as to illustrate my own. The point I am making is that putting in a search for "Masonic Symbols" will garner you a vast amount of "conspiracy theories" that will not support any claims made by masons of a mundane club with nothing to hide.
Not counting I would even venture to say that there are more of these articles than ones written by non masons that support the club.
No more no less.

Originally posted by raknjak
I have checked books written by masons and most of the time they do not make the distinction between a five-pointed star and a pentagram. Maybe they are incorrect but most of the time when several sources confirm the same thing I can assume it to be close to the truth.
www.mastermason.com...: on the top of this page there are 5 images which show me some of the symbols discussed here. I see a five-pointed star in the first...

While I conceed that this is a star with five points it is not the five-pointed star from my original post. The star I was referencing is one with its linear edges aligned symetrically, similar to the stars that appear on the United States flag for example. A five-pointed star can be converted to a pentagram by connecting its colinear edges while the one depicted on the jewel can not.

this page shows you that a "Pentagram, or Blazing Star" is used in the 24th degree.

The 24th degree is from the Scottish Rite, an appendant body. I am not a member of such and when I speak I do so from my position as a member of the Blue Lodge only.

Well I read that thread before I posted here and here is an interesting piece from an insider:
www.huguenotlodge46fam.com....

This event was discussed on the Obleisk thread and while there was indeed a Masonic coorner stone laying ceremony and a re-enactment of such, this does not make this obelisk or any other obelisk Masonic.

Ah right I mixed it up. Regarding the pyramid on the dollar, the question I ask myself is: why a pyramid? why an all-seeing-eye within a triangle? Why Egyptian to begin with? Just a coincidence? Again? The official explanation does not answer these questions and any serious historian wouldn't be satisfied either. Furthermore there is evidence that the Greal Seal in fact IS a masonic symbol:
- quote from Manley P. Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages": "Careful analysis of the seal discloses a mass of occult and masonic symbols chief among them, the so-called American Eagle. ... the American eagle upon the Great Seal is but a conventionalised phoenix..."
- image taken from an old Scottish Rite Journal:...

Hall wrote many articlesbefore becoming a Mason he is also not to be considered as a 'spokesman' for Masonry. While I would enjoy discussing the dollar bill and the Great Seal's appearence thereon, there are numerous threads on the subject already and I recommend those for your inspection.

Well I think I made a pretty strong case using examples, I'm assuming you already know everything explained here and didn't think I would have to prove my point with extra articles or links.

I do not presuppose to know all, as my lack of knowledge reagarding Scottish Rite demonstarted. Any and all articles pertaining to the topic are welcomed.

Ah, I'm from Europe, and it has definitely defined us. And looking at the USA, well they were there, too, in very prominent places. Take the Revolution for instance: www.srmason-sj.org...: impressive list. I'm not saying every decisionmaker was a mason, I'm not generalizing but they did play a role in a great deal of events all over the world.

I agree, while Masons helped in the formation of the United States they were in the minority in regards total numbers.

Yes, I'm intimidated by symbols of power used by some obscure fraternity especially when it's so strongly connected to the occult.

Interesting, as true Masonic symbols are meant to provoke contemplation and self-betterment.

I guess my point is that these symbols all have esoteric meanings within masonry, so they become masonic symbols when used in their environment.

That is a very good point, however many of the symbols I posted do not occur in a Masonic environment at all or in very minor roles.

I wonder who is a true spokesmen for the Masons. I mean I am not the spokesmen for all conspiracy theorist (thank God)
I mean which masons get to determine what is a masonic symbol and what is not?

Originally posted by sacerd
I wonder who is a true spokesmen for the Masons. I mean I am not the spokesmen for all conspiracy theorist (thank God)
I mean which masons get to determine what is a masonic symbol and what is not?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
The 24th degree is from the Scottish Rite, an appendant body. I am not a member of such and when I speak I do so from my position as a member of the Blue Lodge only.

I guess it's all about perception. It's hard enough for masons to know their own rituals, not to mention different rituals from other lodges. One mason might call symbol X a masonic symbol and others might not. This is even more confusing for outsiders. Let's have another look at the five-pointed star: Pentagram of Venus - this is what it actually means. The five-pointed star and the pentagram both refer to this pattern in the zodiac so to me they are one and the same but my interpretation does not guarantee that all masons are going to interpret it like this.
However, when something is established by masons with the intent to create a symbol then it's masonic. The obelisk in Central Park is masonic because it's put there by masons and has great symbolic value for them, the same goes for Cleopatra's needles or the Louvre Pyramid. It comes down to correctly applying the theories of symbolic anthropology which should help us weed out the subjectivity and learn us to be honest about this.

Originally posted by raknjak
The obelisk in Central Park is masonic because it's put there by masons and has great symbolic value for them, the same goes for Cleopatra's needles or the Louvre Pyramid.

You might have missed my previous post. Obelisks are not masonic symbols as they are not ascribed any specific symbolism within freemasonry. They are not used or referred to within the ritual and to the best of my knowledge are not referred to in any of the side orders either.

I am extremely dubious of your claim AS FACT that Cleopatras Needles have great symbolic value within masonry. Could you elaborate, and perhaps let me know where this little gem came from?

Originally posted by sacerd
You suggested that the internet is good source of information about the masons I contend that it is not.

I suggested the internet is a good source of information to perform research, there are published articles on countless topics that might not be available to one doing said research otherwise.

While yes one can find worthwhile information on the internet you have to wade through an enormous amount of bias to get to the gold so to speak. When one is pressed for time, what with working full time jobs and being a parents I dont know that the time spent wading through the internet to prove or disprove anything that deals with the Masons/Aliens/FEMA camps or anything else "controversial" will truly help anyones case in that endeavor.

While one may not be able to perform research due to various mitigating circumstances the fact remains the information is still available. By avoiding certain biased and ignorant websites one can focus their efforts on locating peer reviewed literature which may help support or disprove a claim.

I wonder who is a true spokesmen for the Masons. I mean I am not the spokesmen for all conspiracy theorist (thank God)
I mean which masons get to determine what is a masonic symbol and what is not?

Individual Masons will interpet the ritual in different and personal ways. What I receive from the lectures and emblems might be the same or vary completely from what my Brother sitting next to me might infer.

However, one thing can not be misconstrued at all, if a symbol does not appear in the ritual then it is definetly not Masonic not matter how many peope or conspiracy websites proclaim it to be so.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


This is patently false as nowhere in Masonic ritual is a five-pointed star mentioned or depicted.

Actually, in my Jurisdiction, the Five Pointed Star is a symbol used in the Third Degree. Most versions of the Third Degree do indeed use this symbol.

Also, in the Scottish Rite, S.J., USA, the Pentagram is the primary symbol of the 28° (Prince Adept), and is shown on the Apron and Jewel of that degree.

While pike is often times cited as an 'authority' regarding Masonry is was one person offering is opinion and stated such. The Sun in Masonry represents the Worshipful Master and not the All Seeing Eye.

This can come down to a matter of interpretation, but there is reason to attribute the All Seeing Eye as being a solar symbol. It was used as such by both the Hindus and the Egyptians, and that is one interpretation ascribed to it in the Scottish Rite, SJ, USA.

How does receiving a honorary degree cause one to become demi-godlike?

Obviously, it doesn't, lol. I've known, and am close friends with, many 33° brothers, although I probably wouldn't call any of them "demigods", hahaha.