Let he who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast,for it is a human number,it's number i

Hi all,new to ATS.This famous statement in the revelations has always puzzled me,what is it's significance?I would be interested in all your views as to the importance of this number and what it could possibly mean.Have any you guys got the understanding?

Originally posted by defcon2
.This famous statement in the revelations has always puzzled me,what is it's significance?

its significance is that it offers a glimpse into the Divine mind....

because it states "Here is Wisdom..." & something about calculating
the name & number of the person which is known to prophecy as the 'Beast',


one can get all caught up in using numberology, even esorteric Kabbalah,
to divine the name of this person......
but the Intent is to cause one to be ->Aware

Here is some of my take on the mark. Click the link below for alot more info.


By
Smoking Loon
Oct.16, 2006



I have reason to believe that the mark of the beast is definitely not what everyone thinks it is. I guess that’s the funny thing about deception right? I believe that the mark of the beast is a system consisting of 4 different things. The image, the name, the mark, and the number of the beast. Now here is your warning. This is definitely going to be a red pill topic, so if you cant handle it then I suggest you take the blue pill right about now. To understand this we must look at and understand the fourth commandment, and a man/beast made system based on tradition, deception, and the cashless society. There are many traditions created by the system, but for now I will tackle the most noticeable, and some might say the most important tradition and that is the sabbath.

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:8-11

So, how do we get the mark out of this?

Remember (Hebrew – 2142 Zakar) The Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:8 ) To mark (so as to be recognized)

“Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, and hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God.” Ez. 20:12,20

A sign by definition is a distinguishing mark.This means that you can mark (remember) the Sabbath day. The seventh day is the Sabbath day, which is the Mark of God. According to the word of God the Sabbath is his mark. A sign is equal to a seal. So a seal is also a mark. Now we need to find out of God has an actual seal. A seal is something that states a rulers name, title, and his territory. Does the fourth commandment carry the characteristics of a seal? Well, lets see here. He created heaven, earth, the sea, and all things in it. His name is God, and his title is the creator. Sounds good to me. So, his fourth commandment is a seal, sign, and mark, and before I forget I will add this little tid bit for your extra information.

“And the lord delivered two tablets of stone written with the finger of God.” Deut. 9:10

What does it mean to put something into stone? Is that an important characteristic of the Ten Commandments? Yes! These Ten Commandments were so important to God that he didn’t even entrust them to his most prize prophet at the time. He put them in stone and delivered them himself. When something is put into stone is it of a changing nature or an unchanging nature? Unchanging right? That’s what I thought.

“Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.” Ex. 31:16 I think it was.

If it is perpetual it isn’t going to end. Also something to note is that a couple of times in the Bible God is referred to as the living God Acts 14:14-16.

If he is not dead then neither is his mark.

“And it will be, if you listen carefully to my commandments which I command you today,… Take heed to yourselves that your heart may not be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods, and worship them,… Therefore you shall lay up these my words in your hearts and in your souls, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, so that they may be as frontless between your eyes.” Deut. 11:13-20

God wanted the Israelites to bind his commandments to their hand and on their forehead (Not laterally.) so the laws of God are not only in their actions, but also in there thoughts. Now that I feel comfortable saying that the mark of God is on the soul and that it is not dead, then finding the mark of the beast shouldn't’t be to difficult.

“And he shall speak great words against the most high, and he shall wear out the saints of the most high, and plot to change times and laws, and they shall be given into his hand until a time, times, and half a time.” Dan. 7:25

“And he causes all those both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in there right hand or there foreheads, and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Rev. 13: 16 –17

To make my point I will list some quotes that go straight to the heart of this. If you want to learn more about the quotes I'm about to put here then you really should read my other works. After that I think this essay and future ones will make a whole lot more since. These are all quotes from Roman Catholic sources that claim their views of the seventh day Sabbath and authority.

1.“The Pope has the power to change times, to change laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” Decretal De Translat.

2.“The Pope can modify divine law.” Prompta Bibliotheca. Papa. Art.2

3.Question. What is the Sabbath day? “Saturday is the Sabbath day.” The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine.

4.Question. Why do we observe Sunday instead of the Sabbath? “Because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity form Saturday to Sunday.”

5.“The Church after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath of the seventh day of the week to the first made the third commandment refer to the Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the lords day.” Note. The Catholic Church deleted the commandment that says not to worship false idols, and they split the tenth commandment in two to fill in the gap.

6.“Fundamentalists meet for worship on Sunday, yet there is no evidence in the bible that corporate worship was to be made on Sundays. The Jewish Sabbath, or day of rest, was of course, Saturday. It was the Catholic Church that decided Sunday should be the day of worship for Christians, in honor of the resurrection.” Catholicism and Fundamentalism. P.38 Note. You will find nothing in the Bible that says the first day shall be worshipped because of the resurrection.

7.“You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday.” Faith of our Fathers. P.561 By Cardinal James Gibbons

8.“Christiandom is indebted to the Catholic Church for the institution of Sunday as the Sabbath day. In keeping Sunday, non Catholics are simply fallowing the practice of the Catholic Church for 1800 years a tradition and not a bible ordinance.” The Sunday Visitor/Question Box P. 99

9.“Sabbath… A Hebrew word sanctifying rest… Sunday was a name given by the heathens to the first day of the week, because it was the day on which they worshipped the sun.” Bible Encyclopedia. P.561

10.“The sun was foremost God with heathendom… There is, in truth, something royal, kingly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the sun of justice. Hence the Church in these countries would seem to have said, “Keep that old pagan name. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.” And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder (Baal) became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus.” The Catholic Word. P. 809 March 1994

11.“He (The Pope) can pronounce sentences and judgments in contradiction to the rights of nations, to the laws of God and man… He can free himself from the commands

12.“The Pope’s will stand for reason. He can dispense above the law: and of wrong make right, by correcting and changing laws.” Pope Nicholas.

This last one is from The Baptist Manual. By Dr. Edward T. Miscox.

13.“What a pity that it (Sunday) comes branded with the sun god. Then adopted and sanctified by the Papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism.”
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 23-11-2007 by Daniel Boone]

reply to post by Daniel Boone


ok so, me the newbie, has a question, because
1. the link no longer works... and
2. i am under the understanding that the pope thinks that he is god?

please correct me if I am wrong? but yet the pope is allowed to change things to suit his own needs? maybe I need to reread this..

Mostlikely it is a birthdate.

The Zodiac, is a 12 signed year of 360 degrees.

In the 6 hour of the 6 day of the 6 sign.

reply to post by Daniel Boone


Boone what a bunch of Bull. The "beast" who John of Patmos is referring to is most likely the roman Emperor Nero. The numerical equivalent of Nero's full name and title in Hebrew adds up to 666. Any new testament historian will tell you it has very little to do with the present. Nero was considered "the beast" by early Christians because of his anti christian hatred, and often referred to himself as the only God. John wrote Revelation during his reign. AD 68-69. Do some new testament history research.

reply to post by luxor311


No, nero was one of a long line of antichrists. An archetype, I believe that's the term.
People who wished to be The Antichrist during the great tribulation. Ruling the WHOLE world, East to West!
But the church is still here, so the GREAT tribulation cannot have started!
It will make the inquisition pale in comparison.
6 is also the number of man , imperfection. Trying to succeed without God.
Also, do you remember that Goliath had 6 fingers and toes?

Originally posted by luxor311
reply to post by Daniel Boone

 

Boone what a bunch of Bull. The "beast" who John of Patmos is referring to is most likely the roman Emperor Nero. The numerical equivalent of Nero's full name and title in Hebrew adds up to 666. Any new testament historian will tell you it has very little to do with the present. Nero was considered "the beast" by early Christians because of his anti christian hatred, and often referred to himself as the only God. John wrote Revelation during his reign. AD 68-69. Do some new testament history research.

My thinking exactly. If you read the history of the times, it is amazing how closely revelations match, from the decoding of the number, to the mark that was forced upon them, to most of the images of Rome and Roman politics.
Like Nostradamus, he had to cage his words in metaphors, so as not to be killed on sight. The true church was destroyed during the Nicean council, so we have already had our thousand years of peace ( yahhh----rigggght) I doubt they were all "Caught up in the heavens", unless it was on a rope or cross, and the idea of a "rapture" wasn't even invented until the 1800's.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by luxor311

 

No, nero was one of a long line of antichrists. An archetype, I believe that's the term.
People who wished to be The Antichrist during the great tribulation. Ruling the WHOLE world, East to West!
But the church is still here, so the GREAT tribulation cannot have started!
It will make the inquisition pale in comparison.
6 is also the number of man , imperfection. Trying to succeed without God.
Also, do you remember that Goliath had 6 fingers and toes?

Your reading way too much into it.

The book of revelation often leads one into the realm of fanaticism through its coded and obscure message. This was the objective of John in order to confuse any Roman authority who may see it as a written threat to the Emperor, back then the book of revelation read like a poem and the authorities let it slide.

He clearly was referring to Nero and his intent to destroy the "Christo" or Christ and his followers, remember at the time that Revelation was written Rome was falling apart, to them (Christians) it was the end of the world.

The "Church" as it was referred to in revelation is no longer here. The Romans got a hold of the powerful messages of the gospels and conveniently turned them into a means to control the people. The "real" church that Peter set out to establish has been crushed by modern mans desire to control the masses using the Gospels as a fear mechanism.

Jesus was not into mind control, killing(crusades..ect), money and power. According to the gospels he wanted nothing to do with it. The "rapture" is just another scare tactic that was added most likely much later after the new testament was written. It is still used today to keep the christians in a fear based state of control. The true messages of the Gospel writers are most likely very clouded and somewhat lost to modern day fundamental christians.

Most of Revelation can be understood by reading the rest of the bible. To many people try to isolate the book of revelation from the rest of the bible in order to try and discredit it. How many people here know that you can find understandings of the last book of the bible by reading the first book of the bible? For example, you can find clues as to what the mark of the beast is by going to Genesis and reading about the mark of Cain as well as the mark of God. The key to the future is in the past, always was, always will be.

Sorry about that link. I had a good topic going with a hole # house full of info that would make all this make more sense but, I think it got booted or something

[edit on 24-11-2007 by Daniel Boone]

Originally posted by Daniel Boone
Most of Revelation can be understood by reading the rest of the bible. To many people try to isolate the book of revelation from the rest of the bible in order to try and discredit it. How many people here know that you can find understandings of the last book of the bible by reading the first book of the bible? For example, you can find clues as to what the mark of the beast is by going to Genesis and reading about the mark of Cain as well as the mark of God. The key to the future is in the past, always was, always will be.

Sorry about that link. I had a good topic going with a hole # house full of info that would make all this make more sense but, I think it got booted or something

[edit on 24-11-2007 by Daniel Boone]

Are you saying that John's intent was to write the book of Revelation only after its readers had read the bible? when it was common at that time that most people did not know how to effectively read or write?

The book of Revelation was written 65-66AD. Gospel of Mark, Matthew and Luke around 50-65 AD. The Gospel of John was written after Revelation along with the rest of the books of the new testament..

The intent of the book of revelation was to warn the church of the impending doom and to prepare for the messiah. Not to go and read the gospels(which were scarcely available) and the Torah first and then come back and try to fit it all together. Thats a lame argument. Johns message was urgent.

Its also known among new testament historians that Pope Dionysius of Alexandria most likely rewrote parts of revelation to his own liking since he insisted that John of Patmos did not write it.

I am not discrediting anything just pointing out the facts that alot of Christians have a problem with ...facts, not faith.

666 ... God wants us to know who the beast will be ... 666 is our hint. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out. The United Nations has a seat 666 which no one has taken ... yet! I don't think it has anything to do with a birthdate, or name ... I believe the beast will rise from political power ... the EU has a Committee of the Regions. Committee has 222 members, 2+2+2 = 6. 222 members from 24 countries, again 2+4 = 6 ... now, could this possible be the beginning of 666? I got 2 6's can y'all figure out a third? Just speculation on my part but it's fun to try and figure it out! We should know who carries the 666!

There's only 192 member states of the United Nations. There are no "numbered seats" unless you are talking about an internal numbering system in the building and in that case how would you know where it is or if anyone has ever sat in it?

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe


Thanks a voice of reality..

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Now can someone tell me were it says here that the mark is a number, image, a name, or even any kind of physical object for that matter? It doesn't but, if you read the rest of the bible it states pretty clearly what the bible referse to as a mark. The bible says that a mark is placed on the souls of those who are cursed or blessed. Like I said. This goes all the way back to the begining with the mark of Cain when God cursed him for killing his brother Able. The first murder in human history.

In the end times knowlage will be greatly increased says the bible. That would include prophecy. The prophecies in the bible were not made for the generations of that time. They were made for the generations that would be living in the end times. They would be the ones with a greater understanding than previous generations. Do I believe it is this generation? I believe it is highly probable but, I could be wrong.



[edit on 25-11-2007 by Daniel Boone]

does the revelations actually say IN their right hand and IN their forehead or is it On?If it were in then the rfid implant could very well be the mark

Originally posted by Daniel Boone
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Now can someone tell me were it says here that the mark is a number, image, a name, or even any kind of physical object for that matter? It doesn't but, if you read the rest of the bible it states pretty clearly what the bible referse to as a mark. The bible says that a mark is placed on the souls of those who are cursed or blessed. Like I said. This goes all the way back to the begining with the mark of Cain when God cursed him for killing his brother Able. The first murder in human history.

In the end times knowlage will be greatly increased says the bible. That would include prophecy. The prophecies in the bible were not made for the generations of that time. They were made for the generations that would be living in the end times. They would be the ones with a greater understanding than previous generations. Do I believe it is this generation? I believe it is highly probable but, I could be wrong.



[edit on 25-11-2007 by Daniel Boone]

The "Bible" is not an historically accurate document.

reply to post by Daniel Boone


Yes!, yes!, yes!

To add to that wonderful post, the times were changed in several ways, one of which are the number of the months. For example, October is 8, November (Novem = nine), December (decem = ten).

Another tidbit, the clock was invented so that everyone would pray at the same hour throughout the day. This is important because there is strength in unity and the quantity matters.

Also, the Bible says "take no thought", but, that is the very thing stressed in todays world. The indoctrination for this starts in school where you must always demonstrate how you know and how you arrived at your answer. If the mind calculates in any other way it is frowned upon. This is only one example. People have begun to realize that schools cause a schism and have started to teach their children at home. If the mind is trained to think one way at a young age, it will always formulate in the same manner.

2 divided by 3 = 666

The number of a man. It is a craft that evil men use to cause division within ones temple (soul/mind).

"There are two that bare witness" (the water and the blood). The two witnesses appear dead, but, are not.

"A two-fold cord is not easily broken." Consider this and who is breaking or trying to break and what they are trying to break.

On ATS, they give aliens more worship and praise than they do God. Some, it appears, have made aliens (seen and unseen) their God. They talk of them having superior knowledge. Consider the tricks of the devil. He will steal what is yours and sell it back to you and then tell you he gave it to you.



[edit on 26-11-2007 by Siren]

666 is the number of the "Old Man" the physical man, the mind of the flesh which Ecclesiastes says is no different than "a beast". Here are some notes on this topic which I teach about in my bible study:

What does the 666 mean in scripture?
o Can not buy or sell (Rev 13:18) - God’s Economy is to give and receive, not Buy and Sell. The Mark seperates those who need to continue to buy and sell from the true remnant. (Jn 2:16, Mt 10:8, 2 Cor 2:17, Prov 23:23, 2 Pet 2:3).

o Taking this is the abomination that makes desolate (Dan 9:27, Dan 8, Rom 12:2, 2 Thess 2:3-4)

o Old man, natural mind of flesh which is the enemy of God.
o Number of a man, a corporate man – 1 John 5:19 – whole world lies in evil one.
o Goliath, 6 cubits tall, 6 armaments, spear head 600 shekels Iron. (1 Sam 17) parable of fight between old natural man and new spiritual man (1 Cor 15:46)
o Dan 3 – statue, 60 cubits high, 6 cubits wide, plain of Dura (“circle” as in earth, gematria 600)
o Solomon got 666 talents of gold per year from renting out vineyards. (1 Kgs 10:14, 2 Chr 9:13)
o Romans 6:6 – old man is dead and buried with Christ (6th book, 6th chapter, 6th verse)
o Carbon-based flesh – 6 Protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons makes up physical, natural man.
o John 6:66 – many of his disciples went away and followed him no more.
Again - mind of Flesh cannot accept the things of God.

Some of the folks reading are looking for a specific individual, and their may be a leader in the persecution of the saints, but the number reveals a corporate man, not a specific individual.

reply to post by Daniel Boone

hi! its been awhile but i had a look around the internet and found this www.ianpaisley.org... it's pretty strange it says the letters on his crown add up to 666