Scientific explinations of 'Spiritual experiences'

Wired Article One

Wired Article Two


I personally believe that a great many so-called 'religious experiences' could be explained away using Persinger's theories. In fact, a place with large amounts of metal deposits....


Say, oh, Sudbury...

...could theoretically be magnetized and turned into 'holy sites'. Other things, such as coronae on the steeples on the church in Zeitoun, Egypt, in the 1960s had been mistaken as visions of mary and suchwhat (Persinger was there, he showed us pictures and explained everything).



What are everyone's thoughts on the matter?

DE

I'd be curious how you'd explain personal spiritual experiences...

I've heard about a lot of those scientific explanations of "miracles", and am torn on the issue.

Part of me believes people desperately need to see something to reaffirm their faith, be it in God or aliens, and so they do.

The other part of me thinks, you know, God created this world, and the solar system, (whole universe, in fact ) so he could just be working miracles through his own creations.

Personally, I'm an athiest. Me and religious experiences, we be not tight.

As for the personal religious experiences of others...well, read the articles. Magnetics, tectonic movement... I'm trying to space out what I learn in Herr Doktor's lectures. The way he explained it, conditiosn similar to 'haunting' are at work.

I believe in aliens and ghsots and whatnot...I simply believe that ACTUAL abductions and ghostly experiences are mcuh mroe rare than most think.

DE

I don't mean physical manifestations as religious experiences. Oh, and I've known for a while you're an athiest. You wear that proudly in many posts.

I'm talking about the mental upliftment you can recieve, the feeling of peace that can suddenly come over you. The healing that can occour when you go through a prayer line. The spontanious thought, after a prayer, to turn to a radio station or a passage in the Bible which directly answers your prayer. That's the kind of religious experience I'm talking about.

I'll admit, I've never seen anything with my eyes to cause me to believe more (paranormal, that is), but I have seen with my heart. I, personally, don't need to see a physical manifestation of God to believe, I already know.

Heh... Herr Doktor says that such an experience isn't uncommon. Physical manifestatiosn are fairly rare in any case. However, what you seem to experience seems to be more under the Helmet. As it says in the article, such an experience isn't uncommon. he infact, directly stimulated a lesser form of this in several subjects.

The same basic principle of prayer is applied- stimulate the right periotal hemisphere, and eventually you will receive a non-aversive stimulous. A presence is felt.

for example, ina 'haunted' place, there are often magnetic fields at roguhly 40-50Hz which simulate the feeling of a 'presence'.

DE

And the insight gained through prayer that is not known to you, nor could be known? Would that be psychic, or is it possible, just remotely possible, that a devine being is guiding you on the path that would be best for you and the Kingdom?

BTW, I admit I haven't read the articles, but I think I'm going to have to to be able to debate you on a level playing field!

'insight', eh?

Persinger is a firm believer in remote viewing, actually. He did a number of experiments in it with one Ingo Swann, whom I am sure is fairly familiar to the people of ATS. Once again, that is explainable. I'm still trying to process this information, so once I get it down (I have a pile of articles about as thick as my hand to read) I'll explain it as best I can.

DE

Originally posted by junglejake
I don't mean physical manifestations as religious experiences.
I'm talking about the mental upliftment you can recieve, the feeling of peace that can suddenly come over you. The healing that can occour when you go through a prayer line. The spontanious thought, after a prayer, to turn to a radio station or a passage in the Bible which directly answers your prayer. That's the kind of religious experience I'm talking about.

I'm beginning to think that what you are speaking of is entirely wishful thinking and chemical reactions in the brain.

Now that I read the articles, I'm becoming even more convinced.

[Edited on 1/28/2004 by weedpickr]

I believe like junglejake. that we do not need to see God o believe. men in the early biblical times
saw God daily, but as sin increaed and technology advanced God has left mandkind to itself only appearing to his saints from time
to time.



What tells there is a God is the creation. the pure amazement of this creation, the nature, the joy, the woderfull food God has created, our emotions, and our pure love
is all signs that God exist. it is impossible for me to not believe in a creator while studying this creation and theplanet. A loving designer did this, an amazing designer.


I have seen the God cure cancer and give me sufferings whe I ask for them the next day. He is there, yu just have to search for him and he will hear. Im sure of it.





peace.

Originally posted by Truth


"I believe like junglejake. that we do not need to see God o believe. men in the early biblical times
saw God daily"

How do you know they saw god daily? The bible? It's been rewritten so many times how can you believe anything in it?


"What tells there is a God is the creation. the pure amazement of this creation, the nature, the joy, the woderfull food God has created, our emotions, and our pure love
is all signs that God exist."

All are chemicals, endorphins, and easily explained by science.


"I have seen the God cure cancer and give me sufferings whe I ask for them the next day. He is there, yu just have to search for him and he will hear. Im sure of it."

I've seen medicine and positive thinking cure cancer more often than I've seen "god". You get "sufferings" because that is what you make of your life.



[Edited on 1/29/2004 by weedpickr]

Remote veiwing has nothign to do with
"God" experience, or even religious.

Iv had many OBE experiences and retain to believe that no God force exists.

God was simply misinterpeted my "Idiots" who thought he actaully lived.

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Remote veiwing has nothign to do with
"God" experience, or even religious.

Iv had many OBE experiences and retain to believe that no God force exists.

God was simply misinterpeted my "Idiots" who thought he actaully lived.

Deep

Actually, the parts of the brain stimulated in remote viewing and hauntings is quite similar to that of the experience of the 'presence of god'. the only marked difference in either (and, jsut to note, OOBE is NOT remote viewing) is position. the activity in the brain during periods when one feels a 'negative' presence on the left side of teh body mirrors the same 'religious experience' that one would receiving emanating from the right side of the body. Both OOBEs and 'remote viewing' occur in the right parietal lobe, which is the same areas which display hightened activity when one sees a 'ghost' (however, when one sees a ghost it is mostly temporal lobe).

DE

Well, DuceEx, at least you're willing to treat those of us who do believe in God as thinking, breathing human beings. I respect that, and you, as a result.

As for you, ZeroDeep, if believing in God makes me an idiot, I can only pray I can be as big of an idiot as is possible.

Really weed pickr?


" ive seen cancer cured by medicine and positive thinking ""


Im talking about witout any medication but prayer only in (late) stage cancer. when hopes of surviving are 0 %. Ive asked God for a specific pain and reieved it to cover sins the very next day, it sounds fanatical but I
do not think like you.



"" scripture has been re written many times ""


it has been re translated many tiimes not rewritten, and the most accurate translation is the Douay Rheims version, the most accurate tanslation from te original manuscripts.


but thats not the point, the point is that (in) the early manusripts the passages existed sayin that adam and eve, Noah ect spoke to God daily seeing and hearing him. This is how the ark was built.



"" can be proved scientifically ""



realy? Ok explain why my cat purrs? how can evolution do this? how can evolution creat love? how can evolution make nature so beautiful? how can evolution creat man and women and the pure love between the? how can evolution creat an earth that is the perfect size and distance from the sun?
how can evolution creat joy and happiness? How does evolution make my dogs tale waggle when i walk in the door? How can evolution give every creature the ability to love? How does evlution make (tastebuds) so great and the many foods to go along with it?



there is no answer to this, and any soul on this computer right now knows there has to be a designer if you just use yur god given common sense. Noting can do such a great job in creating this planet. I refuse to even listen to any explaination you give me about how God does not exist.



But I respect you for not bashing me with bad words.



peace.

Originally posted by Truth

"" can be proved scientifically ""


realy? Ok explain why my cat purrs? how can evolution do this? how can evolution creat love? how can evolution make nature so beautiful? how can evolution creat man and women and the pure love between the? how can evolution creat an earth that is the perfect size and distance from the sun?
how can evolution creat joy and happiness? How does evolution make my dogs tale waggle when i walk in the door? How can evolution give every creature the ability to love? How does evlution make (tastebuds) so great and the many foods to go along with it?


there is no answer to this, and any soul on this computer right now knows there has to be a designer if you just use yur god given common sense. Noting can do such a great job in creating this planet. I refuse to even listen to any explaination you give me about how God does not exist.

Oh, but I can.
These examples you give are for the most part conditioned responses. Love, purrings, tails wagging certainly are. As for tastebuds, subtstances considered healthy by our bodies taste good.

Designer? no. Evolution. Evolution has weeded out what does not fit perfectly into an ecosystem. It has weeded out what cannot survive.

As for God, I am willing to listen to your explinations of why he exists. When I present scientific proof, perhaps you should listen, learn about why your fellow man doesn't believe as you do.

DE

I have a question for the dummy scientists that think we are all vegetables:

If we only go around once eg. there is no spirit etc., then why is not existance on this earth total chaos?

I mean why would there be any order at all?

Waiting for answer, and don't tell me that it is due to enforcement because society itself is the enforcement.

social contract, based on the evolutionary herd ro pack instinct.

Look at wolves, moose, deer and cows- they all have societies, and the basic principles are the same for both sides.

DE

Im in no way a brain surgeon but i think that just because they can simulate certain parts of the brain into thinking we're having a spiritual expierance doesn't exactly mean we are. Perhaps what they're tapping into is the person's subconscious and extracting feelings while the person still remains totally aware and can retain exactly what it shows or the feelings it induces.

Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by DeusEx
social contract, based on the evolutionary herd ro pack instinct.

Look at wolves, moose, deer and cows- they all have societies, and the basic principles are the same for both sides.

DE

and who said that they do not have a soul?

Originally posted by Truth


I refuse to even listen to any explaination you give me about how God does not exist.

If you are so sure in your beliefs, reading about how others "disbelieve" shouldn't be a problem.

But, in a way, I envy you. Maybe if I believed in a higher power the world would seem more beautiful, food would be more tasteful, and the love between two people would be a simple matter. But would I be opening my eyes to a different "godly" world or would I be closing them to reality? And who is to say which is more beautiful? I can look at a flower and know that it grows because of the sun and ground, scientific facts, and still see it as beautiful.