The John Lear Hologram Challenge

No matter how many times I read this thread, I keep coming back to the same question in my mind: What could cause those Towers to turn into dust the consistency of flour? Regular explosives would have made chunks of concrete, and yet there were hardly any pieces of anything bigger than a small piece, very small. MOST of the entire structure was blown to smithereens, but the concrete all turned into a fine powder, and there are only a few ways that could happen.

Until someone explains how concrete turns into a flour like dust while being blown up and out by gravity and fire, one can assume that either a weapon like directed energy was used or some other esoteric weapon. There is NO WAY that regular explosives could have pulverized the concrete, too much would have been needed and the blasts would have been unmistakable and heard by all; No, they had to use soemthing that was quiet and totally pulverized concrete and water bearing materials. Paper did fine, concrete turns to dust. That means something.

TOTAL pulverization, dustification, whatever you want to call it, it happened and created several inches of fine dust in Manhattan all around the area, and nothing known publicly can account for that. The perps were hoping that they could pass off the pulverization as being caused by the ' top sections crushing the rest below ' insanity onto a gullible public, and they succeeded for the most part. Since most people ' cannot imagine ' the real facts being true, the ruse worked. But the people here on ATS and elsewhere not content to be insulted and demeaned by being asked to believe such hogwash are the ones who will eventually create enough attention that the average Joe gets notice and starts thinking about it. Anyone can guess at odds, and when you look at the odds involved in the official story being true, it is easy to begin the journey to truth.

Holograms? Perhaps. Too many anomalies about the planes, but still I tend to side with the ' real planes ' people until I can see some evidence of advanced holograhics used during daylight with accompanying sounds. But to me the real issue is what caused all of the concrete to turn into dust? That has to be dealt with, and only a beam weapon seems to be possible.

I'd like to take my points one step further.

Why would the government even fake a plane impact let alone a hologram plane impact. The WTC was bombed once prior to the plane impacts. Several people have stated that
The created a hologram plane to run into the building and at just the right moment, the government triggered explosives to simulate the plane impact.
What a lot of extra work for no reason when you can simply cut out the middleman by simply blowing up the towers with explosives and never deal with the whole plane thing.

Please don't respond with, we really don't know what their motivation was so we can't answer that. Thats a cop out. Sorry.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Until someone explains how concrete turns into a flour like dust while being blown up and out by gravity and fire, one can assume that either a weapon like directed energy was used or some other esoteric weapon.

Test, test.....1.....2.....3

5 by 5.....

Since its the first (and second) example of a 110 story completely failing and collapsing, we are kind of stuck with the idea that concrete does exactly that when in that type of destruction.

In fact, I've seen videos of large structures being imploded and the amount of dust in those instances is tremendous. I'm not advocating that explosives were used in this instance. Just that a lot of dust is created when large structures collapse.

Since we can't compare the collapse of WTC with any other known instance; its presumptuous to speak in absolutes as to what "should have happened". That just may be exactly what will happen every time 110 stories collapses to ground level.

Originally posted by jfj123
Please don't respond with, we really don't know what their motivation was so we can't answer that. Thats a cop out. Sorry.

Motive was big money... and a reason to go to war...

Motivation to do the fancy 'hat trick'? Well we already heard that they confer with Spielberg and Lucas in this thread...

And bombing the buildings would have been harder to explain, because that means we would have had to let terrorist have full access for a long time in order to plant the bombs...

So throw in some Hollywood theatrics and you have a conspiracy that will last for decades and never get full media attention.

We still don't know what happened to Kennedy... This will go on forever... and keep us all busy...

But one thing that has never been answered for me...

Even if all or any of this is true... what are we going to do about it?

If THEY went on Fox or CNN tomorrow night and said" Okay its been 50 years... yes Kennedy assassination was an inside job!!"

What will we do? Most likely sit with our beer in front of the Tele and say "Hey Honey, guess what? They DID off Kennedy..

After years of this debate with 911, IF the truth ever came out say 50 plus years from now... no one will do anything...

So the motivation in my opinion is to befuddle Americans and keep us arguing until the cows come home, and the New World Order.... [NWO? I see no NWO, its just the Old World Order 'doing business as usual']

We now know that Grandpa Bush and the Rockefellers with Standard Oil funded the NAZI's to power... and what have we done about that?

Reelected Herr Bush... let him put a brother in charge of security at the WTC before the 'attack'

You want to believe it was terrorists, fine go ahead... but I see a lot of talk about if 'our boys' did this it would take a huge number of people to pull it off...

But you want me to believe that nine inexperience terrorists pulled this off...

I can just see THEM sitting watching all this and patting themselves on the back and laughing. Its been 7 years and still no black box... not one from any of the planes. Argue all you want that they were 'vaporized' in the WTC, but where are the ones from the Pentagon and Flight 93.... If those two were 'vaporized' I need someone to explain HOW

America... Land of the Ostrich

Originally posted by jfj123

assuming they are following the same logic tree that you are, you could be correct. I do not wish to make that assumption. The "sacrifice" of 2000 folks may not seem like too big a deal. But consider the thread talking about the "Silent Weapon". This is something I have thought was quite obvious for some time, especially considering how many Project Paperclip people we brought into America (and the Nazi ability to control their peoples using sleight of hand techniques). If you think it possible that Economics powerhouses can control America by pulling on the pursestrings, then you might consider it feasible that one of the many financial district companies and their employees in the WTC could have been a target.

All angles have yet to be considered. Motive is a funny thing in that it is not easily intuited, despite our own ego's telling us it is. Logic is equally illusory when applied to an unknown model.

This means you have 2 choices:
1. Give up on trying to figure any of this out and go about your life.
2. Start at the very beginning and eliminate all improbable hypothesis and the most probable remaining hypothesis is your new starting point.

Simply apply Ockham's razor-All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one

Is it more reasonable to believe a high resolution, highly detailed, free floating, solid hologram, moving at near mach 1 speed, interacting with a solid object and explosives instantaneously, is more likely then a real plane hitting the building?

that would depend on what your objective is. Do you seek to "believe" or do you seek to "know"?

I gave up on believing long ago when i took a peek behind the curtain of Christianity.

Occams Razor is an official process of intellectual laziness. The simplest answer may or may not be the most likely. Occam tends to be unable to express the same surety when embroiled within chaos.

Motivation to do the fancy 'hat trick'? Well we already heard that they confer with Spielberg and Lucas in this thread...

Just because you heard it on this thread, doesn't make it true. Now people are pulling Spielberg and Lucas into it? And that means all their special effects people too. Doesn't that seem unrealistic to anyone else?

And bombing the buildings would have been harder to explain, because that means we would have had to let terrorist have full access for a long time in order to plant the bombs...

But the building was bombed before like that so it's not unprecedented. There have been PLENTY of buildings destroyed via truck bombs around the world. For example, the Oklahoma City bombing. So of course it wouldn't have been harder to explain as it has happened before.

Originally posted by jfj123

Just because you heard it on this thread, doesn't make it true. Now people are pulling Spielberg and Lucas into it? And that means all their special effects people too. Doesn't that seem unrealistic to anyone else?

Well now wait just a minute here. It was Tom Bedlam who pulled in Spielberg and Lucas as contributors to the 2025 manual which has the holograph projector in it.. Tom is one of the most scientifically (albeit mainstream) educated persons on ATS. So, no, that doesn't seem unrealistic to me. You mean you think Tom Bedlam is lying?

Let me respectfully suggest that you take a look at some of Tom's posts.

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Occams Razor is an official process of intellectual laziness. The simplest answer may or may not be the most likely. Occam tends to be unable to express the same surety when embroiled within chaos.

But there was no chaos with 11/9
Occams razor would state:
What is more plausible?
2 airplanes crewed by terrorist fly into the WTC building. Flights known about on radar, flights seen to hit buildings by many witnesses and seen on live TV.
Highly probable. Everything is know, everything existed to do it.

Holographic projection of planes with simultaneous pre planned explosives including beam weapons.
Highly doubtfull. No such Holographic projector exists. Placing of explosives would be too obvious and would be seen and exposed. No beam weapon of sufficient power existant.


See? Occams Razor at work

that would depend on what your objective is. Do you seek to "believe" or do you seek to "know"?

KNOW

I gave up on believing long ago when i took a peek behind the curtain of Christianity.
Occams Razor is an official process of intellectual laziness. The simplest answer may or may not be the most likely. Occam tends to be unable to express the same surety when embroiled within chaos.

Actually it's a great tool to help prevent unneeded over analysis of a situation, idea, etc...
Also keep in mind that what may be viewed as chaos, always does have order as described by CHAOS THEORY.

originally posted by ignoranceisntbliss

They really didn't "glide thru like butter". For the most part, they battering rammed their way thru pushing the prefabbed steel assemblies in with them. There are some spots that did 'slice', on one of the buildings.

Yes, well, that is what I am trying to say. Look at the wing and tails here:





All I am asking is how did the wing get through box columns 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 and 15.

And how did the left horizontal stabilizer get through box columns 12. 13. 14. and 15.

They sure as heck didn’t go THROUGH it. And I haven’t even addressed the vertical stabilizer.

If your answer is “they battering rammed their way thru pushing the prefabbed steel assemblies in with them then I have a problem with that because steel assemblies (box columns) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 and 15 are not pushed in. They haven’t even moved. They are still there. And steel assemblies (box columns) 12. 13. 14. and 15 are not pushed in. They haven’t even budged. They are still there.

If there was an airplane how did it get inside of the building? In other word none of these pieces were found outside the building. So, if there was a real airplane, how did the wing and tail GET INSIDE THE BUILDING?

Thanks for your post and input. Oh, and by the way, thanks for the challenge. When I got to looking real close there is really no evidence at all that any Boeing 767 crashed into this building and if it hadn't been for your challenge I would never have discovered all of these details. Thanks again.

If your answer is “they battering rammed their way thru pushing the prefabbed steel assemblies in with them then I have a problem with that because steel assemblies (box columns) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 and 15 are not pushed in. They haven’t even moved. They are still there. And steel assemblies (box columns) 12. 13. 14. and 15 are not pushed in. They haven’t even budged. They are still there.

Well there is one answer that is fairly simple.

As example,
Picture closely spaced vertical strands of evenly spaced piano type wire placed in front of a box that is open behind the wire. Now fire a banana at it at a 22.5 degree angle and at a speed of several hundred miles per hour. The banana would be shredded but what you would see is all the pieces laying inside the box.
Now this is not a perfect analogy but fairly close.

I would suggest the no planers look at this site and watch the video in the left hand corner

www.purdue.edu...

It explains and shows it all. Its idiot proof.
If you cant seethe obvious there, there is really no hope.

Originally posted by Chorlton
I would suggest the no planers look at this site and watch the video in the left hand corner

www.purdue.edu...

It explains and shows it all. Its idiot proof.

Nice link, Chorlton, but I doubt it will be regarded by the idiots as proof !

First, look at the title of the article: "Purdue creates scientifically based animation of 9/11 attack". The word "scientifically" obviously refers to what is known as "mainstream science" on ATS, and every good conspiracy fan knows that all "mainstream science" is just a big heap of BS "spoon-fed" to the masses - just ask John Lear !

Second, the simulation was created by an American university - you sure know that they are all controlled by Them[tm], don't you?

But for us unlightened ones, it is a good link. Thanks !

Regards
yf

[edit: typo]

[edit on 1.10.2007 by yfxxx]

Originally posted by johnlear
If there was an airplane how did it get inside of the building? In other word none of these pieces were found outside the building.

I'll drag this entire thing all the way back to this post;

W. Gene Corley studied the airplane wreckage. A licensed structural engineer with Construction Technology Laboratories, a consulting firm based in Skokie, Ill., Corley and his team photographed aircraft debris on the roof of WTC 5, including a chunk of fuselage that clearly had passenger windows. "It's ... from the United Airlines plane that hit Tower 2," Corley states flatly. In reviewing crash footage taken by an ABC news crew, Corley was able to track the trajectory of the fragments he studied — including a section of the landing gear and part of an engine — as they tore through the South Tower, exited from the building's north side and fell from the sky.
Source

I'm not the least bit surprised that chunks of wing and tail could not be found directly on the ground around the towers. Apparently, 110 stories of steel and concrete fell on them.

chorlton,
Good link. I have posted that particular link in other 9/11 type groups but was told:
1. That is part of the conspiracy -how convenient.
2. It's been debunked already so it's not worth discussing. Really? prove it then.....waiting.....still waiting.....getting bored now......waiting even more.....you get the idea.
3. It's a fake video - First, it's a simulation. If you believe it's fake, please provide proof. .....waiting.....still waiting.....getting bored now......waiting even more.....you get the idea.
4. The physics assumed in the simulation are incorrect. Really? you know what I'm going to say next - please provide proof. .....waiting.....still waiting.....getting bored now......waiting even more.....you get the idea.

So unfortunately, we have no hope of proving anything using actual facts because there is always some mysterious hidden reason/agenda that we simply can't hope to understand. Poor us

Thanks for the great link and bringing some rationale to the discussion

Sorry John, nothing of much substance here.

Where's the evidence, where's the research data and links, how was it done?
A quick diagram (that wasn't even lined up properly) and a brief summary of what we COULD be lookig at is a bit basic for the basis of a conspiracy theory.

You must have a right laugh coming up with these crazy ideas of yours, as we have a right laugh reading them.

Originally posted by johnlear
If your answer is “they battering rammed their way thru pushing the prefabbed steel assemblies in with them then I have a problem with that because steel assemblies (box columns) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14 and 15 are not pushed in. They haven’t even moved. They are still there. And steel assemblies (box columns) 12. 13. 14. and 15 are not pushed in. They haven’t even budged. They are still there.

So in effect, what you're saying there is that the "demolition experts" failed to do their job properly, and failed to create a convincing entry point which a real jetliner would have caused...

You say the plane shouldn't have sliced through like butter, but at the same time you question why parts of the steel assembly weren't cut. What's so difficult to believe about the plane being partly shredded as it entered the building, like an egg through an egg slicer. Interesting how you seem to manipulate all of the evidence to support your theory.

I bet if you put your mind to it, you could convince yourself, and half this board, that is was in fact a couple of giant chickens that crashed into the towers.

Originally posted by tyranny22
I just can't understand why some people can't wrap their head around this hologram theory. It's really not that hard to understand and a very plausible scenerio. That doesn't mean that I believe the theories presented, but I certainly understand them.

I find it amusing that people who fail to understand a theory tend to fall back on personal attacks. It's kinda reminds me of this whole administration's stance on foreign policy. If they can't have what they want globablly ... make them look like raving lunatics and call them terrorists until the everyone else agrees with you.

LMAO.

Actually, and quite ironically, it's the "no planes" theorists who seem to be making themselves look like "raving lunatics". They don't need any help from anyone. I mean, come on people! Really.

Sorry for the short post.

I don't believe the no-plane theory, but it is fascinating regardless and this thread has been a great read.

Great arguments from both sides in my opinion. Carry on!

Why do it? To control damage. To take the bodies and souls of people really on the planes. To hid evidence.

How? Didn't certain illusionists make the statue of liberty disappear before?

Possible? Yes if one knows the true extent of military know how. The whole 911 affair is looking more and more like an occult ritual whereby all the participants 'got something' for being in the production.

Then there was the crimes against humanity that just got in the way.