In the Spirit of COINTELPRO: ATS Trolling

Today I was trying to weed through the threads about MKULTRA and Monarch slaves, and found an interesting thread where the OP asked the Community to suggest who in Hollywood they think might be a possible Monarch Mind Slave. MKULTRA celebrities

The Thread lasts two pages, but as soon as discussion on the first page regarding links between possible Monarchs and Disney begin to be mentioned, a member strolls in and starts trolling. I could post quotes of the exchanges back and forth, but to paraphrase:

Madonna, Angelina Jolie, Britney Spears among a few others were mentioned as likely Monarchs. The Troll, who is seemingly unfamiliar with what Conspiracy Theories are, implying that the ones "Conspiring" are us, the ATS type who is trying to get to the truth. My thought is, why are they even here at ATS?

All in all, I encourage you all to read through the thread for a perfect example of what Trolling is, and how it is used effectivly everyday to bog down and discredit real questions and answers here at ATS. Before the MKUltra Celeb thread even got going, it was mired down in confrontational half informed gibberish. Why would someone who has no idea what MKUltra is, and is too lazy to look it up on Wikipedia/Google, decided that their personal beliefs about the validity of the information posted by others warranted any response to the thread in any way? I am not saying that if you don't have knowledge about a topic, that you should not post here, but the amount of posters whose sole intent is to derail research and conversation is mind boggling.

I will not name who I think is the Troll in the MKUltra Celeb thread, I leave that up to you to decide for yourself. (Plus it is probably some sort of TOS violation)

I would like the community at large to be more aware that in addition to amazing conversation, and a wealth of knowledge, there are fellow members who come and go who only stop in to rain on our parade. Perhaps they themselves are Brainwashed, not even knowing why they have the desire to try to derail threads. Maybe they work for the CIA, and they don't want the sheeple to wake up. I don't know for sure that a conspiracy is truly happening to make it so...

But I do know what the difference between a conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory.

Deny Ignorance!
DocMoreau


from New Oxford American Dictionary, 2nd Edition:

conspiracy |kənˈspirəsē|, noun, ( pl. -cies) a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful

conspiracy theory, noun, a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for an unexplained event.

If you feel it's "trolling" to disagree with you, then you won't be exposed to very many alternate points of view, will you?

I've found that on the general conspiracy forum, it's apparently a horrific act to simply disagree with the OP. It also seems fairly common to try to appeal to the TOS to eliminate the intruder - even when the OP, for example, is violating the external link, cut and paste, lack of personal viewpoint comments rules,and the complainer about the TOS violation is himself making every post off-topic etc. Not that it's happening in the thread you mention but it seems common in GC.

It's pretty tough to deny ignorance when all that's happening is an electronic folie à plusieurs. Remember, openmindedness isn't defined as "I applaud all who sort of agree with me."

If your conjecture/observation/whatnot can stand the light of day, you should embrace the counter-argument as helping you find where the weak points are. Or maybe there's some aspect you didn't know, or hadn't thought of.

Heck, I get design ideas sometimes off ATS, not directly, but I'll have two or three weird off the wall comments in my head someone made, and they'll end up making me think about something I might not have considered in that context.

I've even had my mind changed a few times.

So, before you start doing the Body Snatcher Hiss accusing people of being gubmint plants:


you might try some logical exposition. For example, "Monarchs are well known to have butterfly tattoos"

Yeah - who knows? Who can prove that? It sounds like NWO folklore, to be truthful, and I find it really tough to believe.

Had you, on the other hand, brought up Ewen Cameron or Sid Gottlieb, you might have made a better case. They are real, and have documentable evidence that's both real and applicable to making a point about MKUltra's one-time existence.

edit: to be more clear, I should have said "..in their cases there is objective, documented evidence that is real and applicable to establishing MKUltra's one time existence"


[edit on 2-9-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

So isn't this thread in itself, trolling?

You're smearing another member's comments and calling them a troll, to me that's trolling.

reply to post by Tom Bedlam


Tom,
Thanks for your reply. I value your thoughts and opinions here at ATS, and have always found you to be a well informed read. I am glad that there is some interest into what I have to say here on this topic. I am not sure what to believe in regard to the Monarchs, if they do in fact exist in the 'hollywood' style often described by some theorists. I am honestly uniformed, and interested in the topic, nothing more.

What I found on that particular thread, amongst others here at ATS, is the "trolling" that occurs in regard to certain topics. That there is some innate hatred or fear of what is being discussed that on a subconscious level drives some people to write inane posts in an attempt to steer the discussion away from anything resembling truth.

I guess what I am alluding to with that specific choice of thread regarding Monarch Mind Control is show that perhaps the Trolls don't even know what they are doing, being Mind Controlled themselves. Maybe not CIA Monarch slaves, but slaves to the system of belief that would allow programs like MKULTRA to exist by an unwitting public. A blind leading the blind mentality.

If anyone looks at the thread I linked, and reads the language and style of writing throughout, it is very easy to see that one certain individual is not contributing to the discussion with anything but their lack of 'belief' in the topic. Then as one digs deeper, you can see that the particular member signed up shortly before, and stopped logging in a few months later. They also created certain threads that almost seem demeaning to the ATS membership. Perhaps they came her looking for answers to questions, and found them, and then left. I don't know...

In hindsight, perhaps the way I approached this thread was a bit out of line, but I still think that the core question remains, is Trolling being used here at ATS to derail the pursuit for truth. I believe so. In fact, isn't that part of the resaon that the 911 threads are under close staff scruitiny?

I am not sure what more to say, except that if one notices, I never named anyone person as a troll, if you feel I have slandered any one person, then you must have figured out who I was describing for yourself, and recognizing the way that they posted.

I ask you as my peers to make up your minds yourselves. But I truly welcome an even keeled discussion about the topic with any and all. That topic being the use of Trolling as a tool to Derail Threads and the momentum of the information being posted... I personally think we need to address the issue as a community, so that we can inform our peers to recognize it happening, and what to do in the event that electronic agent provocateurs entering the scene. Especially now that ATS is advertising on C2C and every thread is Google searchable.

Thank you all for your comments.

DOCMOREAU

PS... I am not saying everyone is a goverment plant, or anyone who is here bombing a thread is a disinfo agent... Thats why the title is "In the Spirit of..."

The main Question I am trying to ask is Why? Why Troll?

(Edited to say thanks to Coffee for posting, I didn't want you to think I was slamming even though we disagree. I didn't see your post under Tom's)

[edit on 2/9/2007 by DocMoreau]

Originally posted by fweshcawfee
So isn't this thread in itself, trolling?

You're smearing another member's comments and calling them a troll, to me that's trolling.

I dont think hes smearing, more pittying the other poster.

And how is being unsure of someone trolling? I thought it was being unsure..

Like I said, maybe I went about this the wrong way...

I guess the best way to sum it up...

I feel that because ATS posts usually end up towards the top of the google list in regard to certain topics, we will see more and more trolls who come to ATS to drag down topics.

Similar to what we have been seeing with the wikiscanner project, where individuals and groups are editing the entries about themselves or to damage their rivals...

Lets say something spectacular happens, like an smoking gun of some kind that implicates certain powerful individuals. The viral speed at which the ATS membership discusses the topic, causes it to be in the google top ten... Which in kind draws more traffic to ATS, some of which has the sole intent to steer the discussion into one of confrontation and away from cooperation. The Troll-Mole slinks away, while the threads die, and then when someone tries to bring the topic up in a new, drama free thread, they are often bombarded with links to the previous dead threads.

I don't know... It just seems like the "soft target" of ATS discussion... It is not like a Troll really cares if they get banned for conduct violations, you know?

DocMoreau

Originally posted by DocMoreau
I feel that because ATS posts usually end up towards the top of the google list in regard to certain topics, we will see more and more trolls who come to ATS to drag down topics.

BUT ... we will also see more folks of like mind who seek the same or similar. (?) clarity, if you will ... broadened horizons.

I don't know... It just seems like the "soft target" of ATS discussion... It is not like a Troll really cares if they get banned for conduct violations, you know?

DocMoreau

No. They don't seem to care much nor last long, BUT ...

I've seen more than a few who've ultimately become contributing members. Odd, that. no?

Good with the Bad, Wheat from the Chafe ... and all, IMO.

???



[edit on 4-9-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by DocMoreau
I will not name who I think is the Troll in the MKUltra Celeb thread, I leave that up to you to decide for yourself. (Plus it is probably some sort of TOS violation)

before reading more into this thread, I would like to comment on the celebrity thread which started this post...

I read through the whole thing, and I can certainly say that while one of the posters was misinformed - they were FAR from being a troll. In fact, that poster took the time to address each of the OPs statements, followed up on their own, and then expanded on it.

If only all trolls could be so courteous and engaging.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by scientist]

After re reading the thread myself, I tend to agree with most of what you all have to say, that the poster was perhaps more misinformed than trolling. I could give more detailed examples, in various genres, in order to fully illustrate my point, but I purposely chose this example because the user no longer posts under that name at least, and only posted for a few months, over a year ago. I guess I don't know what to call such a thread saboteur, that only comes to post misnformation. Maybe goblining? i don't know...

I know that there is a certain 'style' to these posts, and the posters. I see it here everyday. A way of operating within the forum, in order to steer threads into confrontation. I have fallen prey on occasion to the baiting. I was just informed via U2U that one can 'ignore' users, but that doesn't really help a dead thread.

I don't mind letting this thread die its own death, if the conversation heads that way... That is how conversation happens. But the 'goblining' makes me tired.

I do want to thank each and every poster to this thread. I for one welcome candid conversation on just about any topic, and all of your points here have been valid to me. I myself have only been here for a few months, and in many way am still learning the ropes. I guess what I ask, besides the ignore button, what more is done to qwell the goblins?

DocMoreau

A troll is ONLY a troll if he or she is only out to piss off the majority of the forum. In general, if they can back up their comments with research...they are not a troll, no matter how irritating they are (to you).