Germans Weigh Civil Rights Against Public Safety

Germans Weigh Civil Rights Against Public Safety

www.nytimes.com

FRANKFURT, July 12 — Germany, fearful of being the next major target for Islamic terrorists, is edging away from its deep aversion to intrusive and harsh enforcement tactics, provoking a storm of protest from those who recall the official brutality of Nazism and Communism in decades past.

Sensing a growing threat, Germany’s top security official, Wolfgang Schäuble, is breaking down resistance within the government to surreptitious online searches of computers belonging to people they deem...

(visit the link for the full news article)

An interesting story, and seems to highlight the growing climate of fear of terrorism, fear that could be giving way to racism, a form of cultural racism, one that in the aftermath of future attacks could lead to calls for possible containment of potential threats, but how does one distinguish between an Arabic Muslim, and an Arabic Muslim terrorist. How far will they go, how far will fear drive them??

Ironically Germany's past could in some way repeat itself.

One quote from the above linked article is quite telling, and perhaps ominous...

Given the growing concerns, several experts here said, it is time for Germany to re-evaluate the balance between personal liberties and collective security in its counterterrorism policy.

Could radical Islamic terrorism be eroding the fundamental fabric of freedom and democracy?

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Could radical Islamic terrorism be eroding the fundamental fabric of freedom and democracy?

Exactly

Isn't that what the terrorists would want?

Are we not handing it over to them willingly?

We're so busy trying to fight terrorism, that we haven't even noticed the fact that we've already lost.

[edit on 13-7-2007 by johnsky]

I see it like this, This is not the work of terrorist but the work of governments using terrorism to abuse power and control over the people.

Perhaps the biggest hoax plotted by the NWO.

Terrorist job is to die for their cause.

Governments are using the Terrorist scare to push new ways of population control.

All in the name of fighting terrorism.

I wonder if any of these German officials are considering the use of concentration camps to control the extremist Muslim threats.

Maybe they could re-open the former Nazi camps for that purpose?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Maybe they could re-open the former Nazi camps for that purpose?

Actually it will be better to make new ones that to change back the old ones, if I am not mistaken they are now mostly museums.

Originally posted by marg6043
Actually it will be better to make new ones that to change back the old ones, if I am not mistaken they are now mostly museums.

New old, or both, I really don't think it will matter, as I don't think people really care, and if there are new terrorist attacks in the U.S.A. and Europe involving radical Islamic terrorists, perhaps the public will demand that these threats are contained, maybe they can do it in Germany?

They have used a similar tactic in the past, maybe they can do the same this time without the extermination thing?

Ultimately this is about a loss of civil liberties in the "free and democratic" nations of the world. And the apathy regarding that is what people should be more afraid of than terrorism itself.

[edit on 13-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Ironically Germany's past could in some way repeat itself.

Ironically, it's already been happening in the USA under Bully Boy Bush & His Corporate Crony Gang...Can you imagine what the world would be like if Germany forgot about Hitler? Can you imagine two Fourth Reichs on each side of the Atlantic? Two new Holocausts going at the same time (& quite probably at each others' throats)?

Let me check my local map for bomb shelters....

Here is my 10 cents.
There is no need for governments to create an artifice climate of fear . If people don't recognize the threat of Islamic extremism after 9-11 then the free world is doomed anywhere. While I will never condone torture people still have to face a few things. The right to free speech should never be used to excuse treason and it may be in the free world interests that Islamic extremists who are captured or arrested are never freed from what ever holding facility they are in.

Remember that we are fighting the conflict that will decided the future of civilization and that we have to make an stand now if we want future generations to enjoy the same freedoms we do. Religious extremis is the latest
threat to our freedoms that must be defeated.

[edit on 14-7-2007 by xpert11]

[edit on 14-7-2007 by xpert11]

The way I see it, religious extremism is simply our freedom of belief taken to an extreme.

Does that mean we can clamp down on our freedoms? Absolutely not.


Regardless... no government should ever take away freedoms, while claiming they are doing so in the name of freedom.

The same propaganda was used to rally the people of Germany back in the 1930's.

Originally posted by xpert11
Remember that we are fighting the conflict that will decided the future of civilization and that we have to make an stand now if we want future generations to enjoy the same freedoms we do. Religious extremis is the latest threat to our freedoms that must be defeated.

I believe the ultimate question is how much freedom, and civil liberties must the peoples of the "free and democratic" nations of the world sacrifice in order to defeat these "threats"?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
I believe the ultimate question is how much freedom, and civil liberties must the peoples of the "free and democratic" nations of the world sacrifice in order to defeat these "threats"?

Not necessary as much as is made out when the likes of warrant less wire tapping is supported. Surely warrants could be issued in secret for example. But the enemy mustn't be able to take advantage of our freedoms to spread propaganda , commit treason if applicable and seek release back into the wildness where they will be an threat again.

No one should be allowed to threaten our way of life while enjoying the benefits of it at the same time. All I am saying is that we treat the enemy and his/her synthesises like what they are. The are only two ways to deal with Islamic extremists after they have been isolated from the local or mainstream population you either kill them or detain them.

Don't forgot that after WW2 the British hanged William Joyce aka Lord haw haw for treason.

Just my ten cents.

[edit on 14-7-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by johnsky
Regardless... no government should ever take away freedoms, while claiming they are doing so in the name of freedom.

I would agree...In fact, the 1st Amendment of the US Constitutional Bill of Rights clearly designates that "Congress shall make no law abridging" the other Rights listed. What that means is that they are not allowed to limit or restrict the Citizens' exercise of those Rights...

And yet that's exactly what's been slowly happening since the Cold War Era (after WW 2). It's just that Bully Boy Bush & His Corporate Crony Gang have done the most damage in the shortest time to the Constitution (& Bill of Rights), when compared to any other Administration in the whole of American history.

We have that same part in our Canadian constitution, stating that no law can take precedence over our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

However, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms clearly states that upon being suspected of a crime, the Right to Freedom of Movement can be suspended temporarily until a formal accusation is made (which is 14 days I believe), and upon being found guilty of a crime, the Judge is the one who can determine which rights you are stripped of.

Basically, if you're being detained in Canada, they have to bring you to trial soon, otherwise they have to let you go. If you're a citizen.


However, I fear that the trend of the US government breaking the law might catch on here... I sincerely hope not.