UK rounds families up to be put in 'Respect" camps

thanks for the re-post andy, but there was no need. I read it the first time.

Take a look art Dock's post.. Are you saying this sort of thing doesn't go on, or should be left unchallenged?

Police bound by PC codes, state powerless to actually do anything about problem families and outright prowling assaults on peoples homes?

This is a very good example of why I wont give up 2nd Amendment rights.

If a person or group of person decided to march around my house and smash windows and such I'd simply shoot them. I thought they were trying to break in. They were on my property and their behavior made me feel threatened so I defended myself.

The poisoning of pets isnt defendable in the same way. Since I am not directly threatened I wouldnt be able to defend myself. Animal rights violations would certainly come up and then its up to law enforcement and the courts.

Invading private property and vandalism on a scale such as you have described is certainly defendable with lethal force. Theres a reason why "Tresspassors will be shot" hang from signposts in certain 'exciting' areas of the country.

The more the government gets involved the less actually gets done. Very well exemplified in the PC boud police fearing lawsuits and backlash. Its a sad sad state of affairs. Whoever it was that first decided someone else should solve his problems really messed it all up for the rest of the world.

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere
thanks for the re-post andy, but there was no need. I read it the first time.

Take a look art Dock's post.. Are you saying this sort of thing doesn't go on, or should be left unchallenged?

i am sure plenty of bad things go on, and i live in a bad area so i know that to. like for instance when i was youg, we would have our back fence burnt down, and the police would do nothing.

there was another time when we were being haressed and the police told us point blank, to knock down there fence and the police would do nothing. i just stood there in amazement seeing the police telling us to do this. i was just thinking, its your job to stop these criminals, and we should not have to do your job. that showed me how the police are out there organising crimes, and i have always wondered, if they organise crimes against people. i just could not believe it, but i was only young.

in the world we live in, people just make up lies about anyone. but i do understand your point about really bad neighbours, but what about if those bad neighbours were friends of the police, and they made up stuff about you. from what i saw when i was young, the police do not give a damn, about people commiting crimes.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Ill give you an alternative. Discipline. You see some kid acting a fool confront him. If the communities actually behaved like communities you wouldnt need an outside force to police you. Know your neighbors, talk to your neighbors, discipline your children and if you have families where the parents are clearly the problem befriend those kids. Show them the right way and call out their deadbeat parents as examples of failure.

Some punk kid vandalises your property jack him in the face. As a whole people everywhere need to stop relying on government and magic figures of 'authority' and we all need to take charge of our own lives from birth to death.

The last thing this world needs is more government intervention. Then what do kids learn? Live life any way you want and the government will make it all better.

Ah the D word, but you don't know your history of the British Isles do you, the idea of discipline and self responsibility have been banished from the social agenda....Correction it's been banished as far as the thugs and anti social are concerned, but when it comes to the law abiding they're supposed to shoulder the burden of not just their own actions but the scumbags giving them the grief in the first place. Uber liberals will wring their hands and lecture us on how awful these poor peoples lives are that it drives them to commit such lousy acts and how we should show tolerance and forgiveness but conversely use the same argument to justify why you went out and thumped one of them and they'll be pointing and screaming and calling you all the bigoted, bullying small minded vigilante facist slurs they can dredge up. Try stepping in to stop youths misbehaving over here on a regular basis and you risk shortening your life expectancy by years or being prosecuted by the cops. The whole system of law and order here is weighted for the criminal and against the victim. Personally I hope we see people and communities taking steps to ensure their own protection very soon. Read into that what you will.

[edit on 30-4-2007 by ubermunche]

Originally posted by ubermunche
Ah the D word, but you don't know your history of the British Isles do you, the idea of discipline and self responsibility have been banished from the social agenda....Correction it's been banished as far as the thugs and anti social are concerned

Try stepping in to stop youths misbehaving over here on a regular basis and you risk shortening your life expectancy by years. The whole system of law and order here is weighted for the criminal and against the victim. Personally I hope we see people and communities taking steps to ensure their own protection very soon. Read into that what you will.

I feel for ya man. Really. This sort of crap is becoming more and more common in the states. Especially the more 'progressive' blue ones. Whod've thought that the best way to deal with criminals and misfits would be to hug them? Let me guess, if you restrain someone while waiting for police to arrive you get charged with unlawful restrain or assault? If you make a complaint the police go tell the person you filed the complaint about that you filed the complaint?

The same happens here. Its almost to the point where people are afraid to be a 'good samaritan' not because they themselves may be hurt but because they may be inadvertantly breaking some law or multiple laws. Its sick and its wrong.

You know, one line kind of stands out in particular given the recent perceived outcry for banning certain things here.

Try stepping in to stop youths misbehaving over here on a regular basis and you risk shortening your life expectancy by years.

I wonder if this is a symptom of old addage "outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns"?

Its truly sad when a mans ability to defend himself does not match another mans ability to cause harm. Not to veer off topic or make any assumptions about yourself but until I can get a 100% infallable guarantee that mo criminal will ever approach me with deadly force Im not exactly willing to give up my ability to defend myself with equal force.

We all need to stand up and not take it anymore worldwide.

I certainly wouldnt trust a system such as this 'respect' program set up by the same government that allowed for all of this corruption and runaway legislation in the first place to fix it with more government and more legislation. This program will only hurt the law abiding just as you described current policies are. If Ive learned anything about governments its that they like it when their citizens are victims. It gives them more power, more control and more money.

It sounds like a sort of open prison, except instead of sitting in a cell and watching TV all day the criminals are encouraged to mend their ways, kick drug/alcohol dependency and so on. As has been pointed out, these are for people who have been convicted of crimes.

I admit it does sound quite alarming out of context, but anti-social behaviour is a major issue in the UK. We don't seem to be able to find the right solution, so this is probably just one of those things they're going to try out.

I recall a number of people saying they should have some sort of "Bad Lads' Army"-style camp for young offenders (teaching them discipline, skills, getting off drugs etc.) This seems to be it, albeit in watered-down form.

For those of you unfamiliar with Bad Lads' Army, it's a reality TV show run every summer in which a number of young men with minor criminal records are put through a month-long 1950s-style national service course (basically, the draft/conscription for those of you at the other side of the pond).

Also, it's not as if the US doesn't have similar... perhaps worse... facilities. Guantanamo Bay? The Rex 84 camps? If it could be done with Japanese citizens in the 1940s then it could easily be done with American citizens in the early twenty first century.

And again, I question those who think the current situation with law and order is the government's fault alone. If anything, it's mostly our fault. We're the ones that went soft, we're the ones that brought up kids to think it's acceptable to get blind drunk at 14, go around getting pregnant, being violent and so forth. It'd been a problem for decades, and I don't think this problem can be attributed to any government - Conservative or Labour. The government goes soft because that's what people want. How many people complained about the way the police treated suspects in the 1970s? So they changed their ways. How many people complain now? Lots. So they'll change their ways again. Simply put, they can't win because they have to pander to the most selfish, fickle and sensational mass in the country - the electorate. Us!

If they don't pander, they lose their jobs. Get kicked out at the next election. If they do, they get accused of populism or are told that what they did was too harsh/not harsh enough. They can't win, really, because they have to deal with public opinion so much. And thus, you see, the problem is our fault as much as - if not more than - that of any government ever.

[edit on 30/4/07 by Ste2652]

[edit on 30/4/07 by Ste2652]

No doubt poor families are the only ones at risk - never mind the wealthy gentleman and his young 'daughter'. Not the barb wire around Ford, not the constitution in ribbons and threads. Not the psychologist interested in kids. Won't be addressing white collar crime, sending embezzling managers in golf clothes to respect camp for thieves. Not the banker who gets up to snort coke, or the cop feeding the hole. What ever happened to the notion of getting respect, by the give.

"For example the cost to the taxpayer can be between £250,000 and £350,000 per family per year... "

What gets designated anti-social and what does not - like spending $75,000 a year to keep a man in jail and letting him out to a starving wage that wouldn't sustain a river wharf rat. Enron cannibals and pensions for paving the road to hell.

Woe to lawyers who cause great burdens and carry no weight.

So I thought the idea was good at first but they slipped up at first and would the idea be implimented in North America they would be violating our 1st amendment rights.

There is also a contained emphasis on enforcement and action. The police, local authorities and other agencies will be encouraged to use the full range tools and powers to deal with anti-social behaviour. Communities will also be encouraged to speak out and demand a co-ordinated response to problems they are facing.

So people who don't like to talk to other people or who are considered not anti-social or depressed for no reason at all will be sent to respect camps? That sounds like nazism to me.

The UK seems to be leaning toward a Neo-nazi regime. I am ashamed.

I am truly amazed by the mindless stupidity being exhibited on this thread. It's been pointed out many times that this is NOT abouut shipping innocent people off to camps because their nieghbours decide they don't like them....

Why the hell SHOULDN'T innocent people have the right to feel safe in their homes, un-intimidated by lawless nieghbours?

How anyone can suggest punishing people for repeatedly and regardlessly breaking law and terrorizing people, is a sign that the UK is slipping into nazi-totalitarian state is utterly beyond me.. ?!?

Don't you guys even READ the thread, or do you based ALL you opinions on one sensational headline?!?







[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

As I said before, it's the same principle as locking someone away in prison... except they're not in prison. They're just given help to get off drugs and alcohol, encouraged to talk through their problems and so on.

Some people don't seem to understand that. Or perhaps they don't want to understand that (maybe they have agendas to push with this police state stuff). I don't know...

The key word in the title of this thread was "Respect"

And I believe that many people have lost the meaning/concept of Respect.

I can only comment on where I live. Respect seems to be something that people expect and not earn. Are things worst that when I was younger? I am not sure. Could it be I am just less tolerent?

For me, things seem worst and I am less tolerent so I notice things more.

Getting back to the real topic of the thread:

There are families in most communities that make life less pleasant for those around them and if after the full force of the law has been used, I have no issues in families attending "Respect Camp"

Will they work? For some families, maybe.

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere
I am truly amazed by the mindless stupidity being exhibited on this thread. It's been pointed out many times that this is NOT abouut shipping innocent people off to camps because their nieghbours decide they don't like them....

Why the hell SHOULDN'T innocent people have the right to feel safe in their homes, un-intimidated by lawless nieghbours?

How anyone can suggest punishing people for repeatedly and regardlessly breaking law and terrorizing people, is a sign that the UK is slipping into nazi-totalitarian state is utterly beyond me..

?!?

Don't you guys even READ the thread, or do you based ALL you opinions on one sensational headline?!?







[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

Huh? What stupidity? I left all of the stupidity in bed this morning. I just learned that the word anti-social means borderline criminal behavior today from my step-mom, and I showed her the site but we agree that the words could have been used differently but what means something in America means something differently in England. I forgot that the English use language differently. Still, you can contact local authorities now and tell the police on your neighbor because they're playing the radio too loud at a party and they can be sent to jail, so it is not like you can't do it here already.

Making a law of it seems pointless, they should solve peoples problems there with counseling. There are a lot of eccentric people in England, don't you think that this is a good thing?

It would be nazism if it fell into the wrong hands, that's what I am saying, and that the law could be manipulated to get people into trouble.

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere
I am truly amazed by the mindless stupidity being exhibited on this thread. It's been pointed out many times that this is NOT abouut shipping innocent people off to camps because their nieghbours decide they don't like them....

Why the hell SHOULDN'T innocent people have the right to feel safe in their homes, un-intimidated by lawless nieghbours?

How anyone can suggest punishing people for repeatedly and regardlessly breaking law and terrorizing people, is a sign that the UK is slipping into nazi-totalitarian state is utterly beyond me..

?!?

Don't you guys even READ the thread, or do you based ALL you opinions on one sensational headline?!?







[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

[edit on 1-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

Oh and people who borderline on the criminal behavior as they mentioned in the aformentioned articles, will receive treatment at a mental hospital, so where are those "nonexistent camps" you were telling me about? Mental hospitals are even worse!

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
but what means something in America means something differently in England. I forgot that the English use language differently.

I'm sorry to be pedantic, but you mean 'Britain/British' and not 'England/English' There is a difference. Our brothers and sisters across the pond should take note of this.

Deny ignorance, and all that!

Originally posted by Maverickhunter
and I showed her the site but we agree that the words could have been used differently but what means something in America means something differently in England. I forgot that the English use language differently.

Anti-social can mean the same in the UK as it does in US.. it depends on the context, but within the context of this thread, it means the kind of relentless low level criminal behaviour exibited by certain people, groups, and indeed, families. that really was made clear.

I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh, and it wasn't aimed at you in particular, but when it was pointed numerous times near the beginning of the thread that we WEREN'T talking about people who just like to keep themselves to themselves, and certainly not whole city blocks or indeed whole ethnic groups... continued comparisions to the Nazi's and "yes, but who get's to decide what's anti-social" type questions did seem...well.. stupid!

again, my apologies for biting your head off on this one.




[edit on 2-5-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

www.informationliberation.com...

Anti-social adults to be sent to 'sin bins', says respect tsar
Marie Woolf

People who repeatedly flout anti-social behaviour laws should be housed in "sin bins" where they will be subjected to curfews and a tough set of rules governing how they live, according to the Government's anti-social behaviour chief.

Louise Casey, who heads the Respect taskforce, wants to extend family intervention projects to single people who have extremely "chaotic" lifestyles.

I would not want disrespectful people making noise and causing a nusisence either, but what will more than likely happen with this program is that instead of getting rid of the neighbours from hell, you will have innocent families and innocent adult individuals getting put into the sin bins, or respect camps as you call them.

If I hear that sun will come out, there are laws to protect the innocent in society crap once more, I am going to become very ill indeed.

The innocent get set up all the time, and when you do, there is nothing to protect you. People can say what they want, do what they want, and only God if he's in the mood can help you then.

I think these are a bad idea. I thought they were a bad idea two months ago, when I first posted the article above about this, and I still think they are a bad idea, because the anti-social behaviour will be decided by probably the worst people on the planet, and yes you will have several people making up lies to get an innocent person or family in trouble and there will be very little done that can help.

For those that think that this is a slipery slope it is. First they started with families, then it's adults with chaotic lifestyles, then who is this going to be extended to.

The UK is headed towards police state faster than we are in the west if that possible, between the survellence camers, putting people in data bases, the spy-snitching networks, with the open ads about it, not to mention the anti-social behaviour laws, it's frieghtening when you put together the whole picture.

Then you get people and their rose tinted glasses going, don't worry old chap, if you are not guilty the laws will protect you, yeah, right. Just like they protect everyone else who's innocent.

[edit on 4-5-2007 by Harassment101]

Sorry but I think the UK is more likely to be heading for meltdown than a police state if anything.

I'm sure word of mouth will not be enough to get people sent to these places. This is aimed at families who have repeatedly and brazenly flouted the law and the rights of the people living around them.

Why are people so anxious to start shouting the odds about speculated injustice but mute when it comes down to some of the actual atrocious things being inflicted on the innocent on a daily basis because some smirking ugly thug and his tribe think the world owes them.

So what do you think we should do with a twenty something ape and his wife and kids that have waged a campaign of intimidation against an elderly woman because she dared ask them if they'd mind turning the music down.

Originally posted by ubermunche

So what do you think we should do with a twenty something ape and his wife and kids that have waged a campaign of intimidation against an elderly woman because she dared ask them if they'd mind turning the music down.

Id suggest going over ther and taking the elderly womans plight into your own hands. Id also suggest getting some laws changed so you people are allowed to defend yourselves.

Youre right, however, that when you live under the control you guys apparently live under your only real option is to either put up with it or curl into a ball and hope the police state works in your favor and in a timely fashion before the thugs break into your homes and kill your families.

More government is not the answer.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

More government is not the answer.

This isn't about more government it's about finding ways to deal with these problems while appeasing those who think rehabilitation is more important than punishment.

Me I'd say throw the bastards in Jail for ten years, I'm sure there'd be a miraculous cessation of these problems if they thought they were staring at a long stretch.

Only 10 years, ubermunche. Sounds very liberal!!! LOL

This will come to very little, if nothing as I am sure some civil liberty lawyer will want to use the European Human Rights to sue the Government is this was enacted in to law.

Never mind the human rights of these who have been subjected to this level of abuse.

This is want the moral (and mostly silent) majority want to hear and more importantly, want a Government to enact in to law.