Religion & Wars

Most common thing said about religion imo:

"hey religions the cause of all wars"

I just want to say it's a load of rubbish.

I'm expecting for someone to say, "crusades", well Knights Templar, now under the new name FreeMasons, profited heavily from the fighting and took a heavy part in it. This organisation is pretty much now the backbone of the NWO.

Hardly religious people eh?

Originally posted by otester
Most common thing said about religion imo:

"hey religions the cause of all wars"

i doubt anyone says all the wars are started by religion
maybe a good deal are, but just as many are started by simple territorial disputes

I just want to say it's a load of rubbish.

well, i'd say that if someone said that ALL were started because of religion

I'm expecting for someone to say, "crusades", well Knights Templar, now under the new name FreeMasons, profited heavily from the fighting and took a heavy part in it. This organisation is pretty much now the backbone of the NWO.

well, if you did your research you'd realize that the knights templar weren't the ones who started the crusade....
the papacy did
your point is wasted
the knights templar gained by AFTER the first crusade

Hardly religious people eh?

well, how do you know the freemasons and NWO aren't religious people?

also, look up the european age of religious wars, it took place just after the protestant reformation

The whole point is that how can religion start wars? It's only a tool.

Like a gun killing someone but not the person who pulls the trigger.

Someone can start wars in the name of religion/God, but does that make it relgions fault? Should we blame religion for starting that war?

Doesn't Christianity teach us that violence is bad, oh yes, btw I'm talking about Christianity here since most of the others are pretty violent, if so would you say that Christianity never caused wars?

without religon there wouldnt b allmost no wars most of the wars r religon realeted

I think I will chime in on this one.
Let me break it down on this:
What I do know:
For starts not all wars are in the name of religion. Normally most wars are because one country wants something another has and is going to take it by force. For example, the Civil war was fought over ideas, WWI, well if you look at the principle players in that war, could either be considered a family fued, or that the Kaiser wanted to be named Emporer.
Religion, is more the fuel that makes the flames go higher.
Alot of motivation to fight is often done in the name of God. Usually victory is attributed to the grace of God and his want for that side to run.
Also, religion can be used to fan the flame to a raging inferno.

Just my thoughts.

without religon there wouldnt b allmost no wars most of the wars r religon realeted

With or without religion these warswould not be affected:

Britain vs. France
Boer Wars
WW1
WW2
Korea
Vietnam
Iran/Iraq
Iraq I
Afghanistan
Iraq II

The list continues further and further. Look behind these wars, non-religious people started them/caused them.

[edit on 18-2-2007 by otester]

Originally posted by otester

without religon there wouldnt b allmost no wars most of the wars r religon realeted

With or without religion these warswould not be affected:

Britain vs. France
Boer Wars
WW1
WW2
Korea
Vietnam

ok, not religiously motivated

Iran/Iraq

iran is a theocracy, thus the war was religious in nature because all politics in a theocracy are religious and all religion is political

Iraq I

ok

Afghanistan

....you're kidding, right?
al qaeda is a religious extremist group
the taliban are religious extremists

Iraq II

"god told me to invade iraq"
-dubya

The list continues further and further. Look behind these wars, non-religious people started them/caused them.

really?
the crusades were started by a pope
the age of religious wars
much violence is sparked by religion

the modern secterian violence in iraq and the israel palestine conflict have religious components as well

[edit on 18-2-2007 by otester]

Religion didn't cause the 30 years war? Or the kulturkampf in germany? It didn't motivate the wars against the native americans by the colonials? Or the pogroms and aktions against the jews in europe? Religion didn't motivate the wars of islamic expansion? Or the strife going on between muslims and hindus? The aztecs and incans had no religious motivations when they went to war?


Its pretty obvious that religion doesn't cause all wars, but its equally obvious that people go to war over religion.

Someone can start wars in the name of religion/God, but does that make it relgions fault?

Of course not.

Doesn't Christianity teach us that violence is bad, oh yes, btw I'm talking about Christianity here since most of the others are pretty violent, if so would you say that Christianity never caused wars?

No, I wouldn't say christianity never caused wars. Jesus told his followers to be pacifists, they didn't allways listen. If there was no christianity, there'd've been no crusafes and no 30 years war. THat doesn't mean that all christians at the time were reponsible for the wars, nor that christianity now is reponsible for it. Christianity isn't an organization, its an idea. The socio-economic philosophy of Communism caused wars, but that doesn't mean that a modern communist bears responsibility for any particular war.

dahl
without religon there wouldnt b allmost no wars most of the wars r religon realete

Thats clearly not true. Human beings fight, its what they do. Sometimes they fight over religion. The World Wars werent' over religion. The Napoleonic Wars weren't over religion. The romans never fought a religious war. Chandragupta's Wars weren't over religion.

iran is a theocracy, thus the war was religious in nature because all politics in a theocracy are religious and all religion is political

Actually Iraq, backed by the US, started on Iran, US sold weapons
through Israel to Iran, such as the famous AiM-9(X). Although Iraq was left in about £75 billion debt, US came off with a profit and a weaker Iraq for the next wars.

....you're kidding, right?
al qaeda is a religious extremist group
the taliban are religious extremists

So what does that change? Al Qaeda, real or not, did not start the war, the Bush fudged 9/11 did.

"god told me to invade iraq"
-dubya

I'm pretty sure he didn't and I seriously doubt Bush is a real Christian anyways, just using it as an excuse.

the crusades were started by a pope

Yeh so, the pope sits on a chair with an upside down cross, nuff said.



Good post Nygdan.

I think this pretty much hits the nail on the head, the whole point of this article was to show that statements like:

without religon there wouldnt b allmost no wars most of the wars r religon realeted

Were false, and it has been done.

Originally posted by otester
Actually Iraq, backed by the US, started on Iran, US sold weapons
through Israel to Iran, such as the famous AiM-9(X). Although Iraq was left in about £75 billion debt, US came off with a profit and a weaker Iraq for the next wars.

yes, but we started it because they became a theocracy

So what does that change? Al Qaeda, real or not, did not start the war, the Bush fudged 9/11 did.

the taliban funded terrorist group
terrorist group attacks USA
USA attacks nation that funds and houses terrorist group
the cause and effect there is quite clear

I'm pretty sure he didn't and I seriously doubt Bush is a real Christian anyways, just using it as an excuse.

well, as an atheist i'll agree that god didn't say anything
however, bush is a real christian
i see christians using the "he's not a REAL christian" excuse all the time when the christian in question isn't convenient

Yeh so, the pope sits on a chair with an upside down cross, nuff said.

the cross of the first pope?
en.wikipedia.org...
cross of saint peter who refused to be crucified in the manner of "jesus" because he felt himself unworthy

a symbol of humility and unworthiness in the eyes of "jesus"

see the ignorance associated with the upside-down cross?

it's an upside-down CRUCIFIX that you have to worry about


i think the point is that without religion, there would be less war because history shows that a lot of wars have been started because of religion

Originally posted by otester
Most common thing said about religion imo:

"hey religions the cause of all wars"

I just want to say it's a load of rubbish.

I'm expecting for someone to say, "crusades", well Knights Templar, now under the new name FreeMasons, profited heavily from the fighting and took a heavy part in it. This organisation is pretty much now the backbone of the NWO.

Hardly religious people eh?

Ah,no... The Knight's Templar is the "boogey man" of orthodox "Christianity." The crusades were ravages of the Muslim and "Christian" faiths.... Don't try to pin it on something that is not related.

[edit on 19-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I will say this. If people weren't fighting over religion, they'd be fighting about something else. You can't really sell me on the idea that "The world would be better without religion."

While I am not a big fan of organized religion, I do think that everyone should have the right to practice and believe as he/she wishes. If they so choose to fight over it, as if anyone is right, then so be it.

Originally posted by dahl
without religon there wouldnt b allmost no wars most of the wars r religon realeted

I won't go so low as to mock your spelling and grammar. I'll just say that you, and many others, are completely wrong.

It's a FACT that SECULARISM, in the 20th century alone, has been responsible for more deaths than religion has been throughout written history. Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pal Pot, Saddam, etc, etc. We're talking MILLIONS of deaths- mostly innocent civilians. All taking place at the direction of, or under the system of, secular governments. Now, a debate can be made that Saddam's regime wasn't secular. But until the whole Gulf War began, Saddam was as good a practicing Muslim as the Pope is. He just found it convenient to portray himself as a good practicing Muslim to gain support from his people, especially in his battle against "the Great Satan" America. But even if we eliminate the million+ Iraqi Kurds, Shiites, Sunnis, as well as the Iranians and Kuwaities that Saddam killed, we're still left with MILLIONS and MILLIONS killed by the above mentioned rulers. And I'm still leaving out quite a few!

Using some estimates, if you combine only the deaths that Stalin, Hitler and "Chairman" Mao were responsible for, you have upwards of ONE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE KILLED!!! That's a hell of a lot more people than were killed with swords and stones during all of the Crusades in total.

Now I'll wait for the response from the masses of folks who were misled by their anti-religion, liberal college professors!!! lol

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I will say this. If people weren't fighting over religion, they'd be fighting about something else. You can't really sell me on the idea that "The world would be better without religion."

the 30 years war wouldn't have been fought without religion
and the entire age of religious wars wouldn't have happened
in those cases the primary catalysts were RELIGION

and on your earlier posts regarding the crusades
why didn't you put muslims in parantheses?
the "muslims" were fighting a defensive war in the first crusade
and don't give me the whole "islam is violent christianity isn't" argument because both religions are equally violent

While I am not a big fan of organized religion, I do think that everyone should have the right to practice and believe as he/she wishes. If they so choose to fight over it, as if anyone is right,

then so be it.

well, people like me who say the world would be a better place without religion don't advocate getting rid of it through any forceful means or restricting belief
we just see a world without religion as an optimistic future that may happen

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

and on your earlier posts regarding the crusades
why didn't you put muslims in parantheses?
the "muslims" were fighting a defensive war in the first crusade
and don't give me the whole "islam is violent christianity isn't" argument because both religions are equally violent

Well,... "Christianity" as it has been practiced since 325 A.D, has certainly been violent, you are correct in that fact. However, if you look at the principles that Christ presented, after all, Christianity is named after Christ, there is not much to be found that is violent. I am talking about his teachings, not his "bring your sword comments," and such. Islam, on the other hand, is quite explicit in its violent attitude towards gentiles, women and "People of the Book."

Now, I am not going to sit here and say that ALL Muslims are war mongering, blood thirsty, militants because that is not a fair representation. However there is a good percentage of them that indeed are very militant.

When I speak of Christians, I am talking about those who pray in solitude and who try and follow the teachings of Christ as was intended. As someone else already stated, there are probably only about 10,000 people the world over that truly do this. I don't claim to be a pure Christian by any means, and to be honest,I don't know anyone who can make that claim. That is why I put Christian in "............"

[edit on 19-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]