Approaching Brown Dwarf?

(DO YOU EVEN REALIZE!!! .. The frikin DENSITY of a dwarf? .. why am I wasteing time on you

I only read to this part , couldn't be arsed to read the rest because...

1.) if you feel that educating someone who is obviously not as "educated" as you as a "WASTE OF TIME", then you,my friend are an (MOD DELETION). GET OVER YOUR SELF.

SECONDLY,my (MOD DELETION) friend....

Fifth. A 3,600 year old orbit huh? .. Amazing. Human history is traced back hundreds of thousands of years. Civilization is recorded at around 6,000 years, humans for thousands of years before that where primal nomadic species. No evidence of giant lizards.

.....Your DIRTY excuse for a well mannered post is based on PURE ASUMTION as to what i believe. I NEVER saids ANYTHING about giant lizards and such.
YOU are making YOUR self look (MOD DELETION) (your "education" not included of course).

And yes it would have pissed off a few orbits....ACCORDING to ancient tradition, SUPPOSED to HAVE created the Atsroid belt.

ACCORDING to...being the key phrase.

THIS is ALL the time I am wasting on YOUR post, i suggest you go and crawl back under your books and re-emerge when you've learnt some posting etiquette and shed some of that (MOD DETETION) of yours.

Please dont be so presumtious next time, its not a graet way to join a thread....

Enter with KNOWLEDGE not ARROGANCE

PS. i just went back and read the rest of your "rant"......
.....(MOD DELETION)....PERIOD

[edit on 31-1-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

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Deleted several personal attacks

[edit on 31/1/07 by masqua]

PS. i just went back and read the rest of your "rant"......
.....youre an idiot....PERIOD

I love it.

Forget physics and forget the laws of nature.. this guy knows all the ancient traditions!

There is also ancient tales of fairies, pots gold at the end of rainbows, and of course solar systems inserting its self with ours leaving it unharmed...

Ignorance is a bliss.

I got a few text books for you. My little sister has some you might like more though..

Hi all.

Could anyone post any evidence, ideally scientific in source, for an approaching star?

I don't believe having Darth Vader narrate a religous rant actually qualifies as science, so if anyone has anything provable I'd love to see it.

Thanks.

LOOK!!

I never intended to "flame" anyone, but YOU came in here with a lot of negetivity....which i DID NOT appreciate.

IF you READ PROPERLY my previous posts, i use the word "SUPPOSEDLY" and "ACCORDING TO".

So, whats yer problem, im here, linking a few vids, telling what ive read.

And YOU, what you here for?

If your here to educate, you're doing it BADLY!!!!! NOBODY wants to read an agressive,self righteous post that doesnt say much.

So, you have an education in these areas? So lets have a discussion.

But dont you DARE try and assume you are

1.)better than anyone here, because you've already shown that you have trouble "discussing" subjects.

2.)that you know where mine or ANYONE elses beliefes lie, because you are NOT good at it, and as a result, have moderately offended me.

I wholeheartedly apologise for calling you an idiot, but stand by my opinion that your ENTIRE attitude is niether called for NOR welcome

[edit on 31-1-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]

Watch the Goggle Video Link I posted on the last page called THE GREAT YEAR.

has some FAIRLY good evidence for the SUPPOSED companion star to our system.

(jeese, i gotta be careful what i say now)

If the moon, as small as it is, is able to pull the ocean up a few feet with the tides, is it possible that a large planet passing close to Earth would produce the same thing on a more massive scale ? I wonder if the 3500 year orbit is actually 3500 per leg and total is 7500yrs.3500 yrs to reach earth then another 3500 to reach its farthest point travelling away from earth. Would answer for what might have caused the great flood possibly.



Pie

Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism
Watch the Goggle Video Link I posted on the last page called THE GREAT YEAR.

has some FAIRLY good evidence for the SUPPOSED companion star to our system.

Actually, it does not.

The target audience is people who do NOT do amateur astronomy, and who know nothing about the solar system other than was offered in junior high school textbooks. It's also targeted to people who don't read current science news and may be unaware of the details of our solar system.

Much of the information is based on OLD data/astronomy... stuff from the 1800's and early 1900's, before our modern computers and modern telescopes and modern instruments. It's a mistake to think that the astronomy theories of 1890 are still unchanged and still good today.

If you like astronomy, you might like to read Phil Plait's "Bad Astronomy" site. He is a real scientist (astronomer) who often appears on "Coast to Coast": www.badastronomy.com...

Not nesseceraly. Try to get hold of a documentary called "THE GREAT YEAR".

You can watch that here

Google Video Link

It is possible that the sun is part of a long-term binary system with a dark body. In fact for a long time it was suspected that unexplainable peturbations in Neptune's orbits were the sign of a very large body on the outskirts of the solar system. This was how Pluto was discovered. They were looking for it (and the same is true of Neptune I think). As I understand it, the peturbations are still there. The pioneer probes are now outside the solar system, but are slowing down(!). Some scientists now say this change in gravity (?!?!) explains the peturbations in Neptune's orbit.

If that's wrong, if or anyone has further info, I'd like to read it.

First .. Anomic of Nihilism

I only responded as harshly as I did because of the way you talked to other posters, being to agressive for a descent conversation to take place. And your complete disregard for science.. I know this is a conspiracy site, but there has to be a backing of some kind of proof.. scientific backing in this case. Just because something can be imagined, does not mean it is literally possible.

Rizla..

The orbit of Neptune could be cause from two sources. The first being it's own mass.. the wieght of a planet often changes how it is shaped, and how it orbits. The Earth for instance, being a near perfect sphere is bulging in the center, along the equater, making us ever so slightly squashed looking.. but we are between two very powerful gravitational forces to keep us in check.. all planets seem to have this. Neptun has nothing to strong to hold it in a singular orbit.. so when its volocity is to great it could throw it's self outward, bowing until its force is slowed and pulled back to the Sun. A dead star is an immense gravitational force.. and Neptune is to large and to far away to stay in orbit while a dwarf tries to tug at it.

The other possibility, or a combination of both .. there are infact other planets past Neptune and Pluto.. "Planet X" for instance, and another one I forget the name of are being subjected to the possibility to being added as official planets. They could be just large enough to produce some kind of tug on the planet, but the actions of Pluto might say other wise.. because when Neptune is tugged outward.. Pluto falls inward.. so a force that can pull a planet like Neptune outward and leave Pluto, a tiny rock comapred to Neptune unharmed is illogical.

I just had a thought...

Think of all the strange moons in our solar system. Why is our moon so large in respect to the Earth? Why does Titan possess such a significant atmosphere? Why does Triton spin in retrograde, almost like it was captured by Neptune? Why does Venus complete a year before it completes a day and spins backwards on its axis?

What if it's because our solar system really IS a binary system and every several thousands of years, the two system crash? This rearranges all the planets and moons. Gravity goes haywire. This crash of the two systems caused Neptune to capture Triton. It caused Saturn to capture Titan, formerly a planet of Nemesis. It caused Earth to capture our moon. After all, don't some reports state the moon may be older than Earth? This would make perfect sense if it came form an older start - Nemesis. Every single mystery of our solar system could be explained if planets and moons got rearranged every few millions of years. EVERYTHING.

This idea i just had gives me chills...

Now for the big question: If Nemesis is so close, why can't we see it? Well, let's do some math.

According to www.chron.com... the sun circles the Milky Way at a speed of about 486,000 miles per hour. Now, let's assume Nemesis also moves at 486,000 miles per hour.

(486,000 miles per hour) X (24 hours in a day) X (6 years * 365 days). That would mean Nemesis is approximately 25,544,160,000 miles away. Now, since light is approximately 670,616,629 miles per hour, light would travel 35,247,610,040,423 miles in the same amount of time. This would make Nemesis 7.247e-4 light years away, or 0.0007247 light years away. Now, that may not seem very far, but 25 BILLION miles away is pretty damn far! Now, given Jupiter is roughly 483,600,000 miles from Earth, that means Nemesis is almost 53 times FURTHER from the Sun than Jupiter! Now, think that Jupiter is nothing but a small, very bright star in our sky. Imagine what it would be like 53 times dimmer. You'd never be able to see it! Even if Nemesis was 20 times larger than Jupiter, it's SO FAR OUT in the darkness of space, WE'D NEVER SEE IT!!!! See how this puts everything into perspective? We wouldn't be able to SEE Nemesis until it's a few months away from Earth because it moves so fast, it covers AMAZING amounts of ground in 6 years!!!!

[edit on 31-1-2007 by ChocoTaco369]

It is possible for a Brown Dwarf to exist as part of our solar system, but not in any traditional sense.

Even if one were found in our solar system, it would be so far removed from Earth, it would have almost no effect. Then, even if it were found to be on a collision path with Earth, it would be coming in from so far out of our solar system, it would never approach anything near a 2012 date.

As far as it effecting us from waaaay out there, it wouldn't. At least, not in the way being discussed here. A Brown Dwarf, from what I have read, is a star that never achieved fusion, and is only 13 and 75 times the mass of Jupiter. Yes, that is huge, but the distances we are talking about here would keep it's effects well away from us, except for it's ability to snag stray comets, and possibly send them into our solar system.

Brown Dwarfs:
space.newscientist.com...

But, have no fear, new objects are being found all the time, and, after all, we did just get joined by a tenth planet to our system.


New Planet:
news.nationalgeographic.com...


Plus, they tend to isolate themselves, because they get less respect than the lighter colored Dwarf Stars.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IeatALIENS]

Originally posted by IeatALIENS
Even if one were found in our solar system, it would be so far removed from Earth, it would have almost no effect. Then, even if it were found to be on a collision path with Earth, it would be coming in from so far out of our solar system, it would never approach anything near a 2012 date.

That's not true. Read my post above. If the brown dwarf is moving at nearly the same speed as our sun, 486,000 miles per hour, through the galactic medium, it has the potential to travel 25.5 billion miles in the next 6 years. That is nearly 53 times further away than Jupiter is from Earth. Surely if it was that much further away in the dark depths of space, we wouldn't be able to see it for some time. We wouldn't be able to see it until it was a year or two away from us, depending on how large it is. We'll just have to wait and see.

This thing, if it exists, may be rotating towards us many times faster than a planet rotates around the sun. It may be beaming toward us at amazing speeds similar to the sun spinning around the galactic spiral arm.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by ChocoTaco369]

Hmmm..

Interesting Though alright. Why is the Moon so much larger in comparison to other moons?

First off for a planet of our size to even have a moon is amazing, normally there is not enough spare junk to form one. However, our moons make up suggest 2 possible formations.

1. Would be as the Earth formed, the material in space surrounding our planet (it would have been a huge mass of gas and debris) formed it. The problem is the moon has almost no metallic substance, no known gases. That leads to probability 2.

2. A meteor strikes earth, tilting it to 24 degrees, blowing out a massive portion of our mass into the sky, ejecting it into space. Our atmosphere is thin then, mostly carbon-monoxide, the material could have easily escaped with enough force. The Moon formed just outside of our atmosphere, presumably 3.2 billion years ago (Earth is estimated to be 4.3 billion years old) So, a billion years passes, BAM, nailed by a large object, debris out side of our atmosphere begins to collect, instead of falling to Earth it begins grouping, pulling more and more debris in. Because the Earth was so young, materials like the rocks we see now do not exist for the most part, so what formed would be the light dust and lighter rocks, metals like iron and such would have fallen to earth. some metals escaped, mostly Titanium to our knowledge.

Picking up moons. Not Possible.

Moons, like those of the gaseous planets where not "snagged" and where not once planets. The gravitational force of the large planets like Jupiter or Saturn make it impossible that a planet formed nearby, much as it is impossible for form a rocky body of significant size the further out go. Jupiter would have been a boiling ball of gases , material and debris would be attracted to it like a magnet, the moons then formed from that debris. A perfect example is the belt around Saturn. In fact, all large planets still have their belts in which their moons formed, some less defined and almost all dust, some still rocky.

If another solar system passed through ours, the sun of that system would not be dead. Because this incident would have had to of happen billions of years ago (no earthly evidence remains, no proof) our solar system is estimated to be nearer the middle (or once was) of the universe, another solar system that close would be about the same age.. suns last billions of years, it is unlikely a dwarf passed so close.

In the very unlikely event a dwarf did pass through, Jupiter would not have "snagged" a moon or a planet from the dwarf... dead stars are so amazingly dense their gravitational fields would have literally cause a collision of dwarf and star and the entire solar system would have been destroyed. NASA has evidence of solar system colliding.. even galaxies colliding.. amazing destruction beyond comprehensible thought.

The Asteroid Belt (why do we have such generic names like "moon, sun, asteroid belt .. who knows) was never a planet, but a failed planet. As the rocks where forming into a planet between Mars and Earth, Jupiter was already growing huge, coupled with the power of the Sun, the planet could not form under strains from both angles, hence, never forming. Where Jupiter and Saturn not there, there very well could be another near Earth planet. All moons of planets are different depending on what gasses and elements formed them. Jupiter is far different then Earth and cannot be expected to make the same type of moon.

As for your calculations, they work if your talking about two object starting out at the same speed. to do such, they would have to be the same exact weight.. planets and all.. impossible. As of right now NASA predicts no major star collision, in fact we are light years away from another star... and all stars of our galaxy move in the same direction at variable speeds.. we on the outer band are isolated as far as this goes. In fact, by your calculations since we move in the same direction, this dwarf would have to move twice as fast as us to hit us, as we do not move in opposite direction.

We actually have a far greater chance of our galaxy hitting another, because of their size.. and I know we are on a collision course with one, but I cannot remember the name.. our sun will be dead by then.

And finally, a brown dwarf is not invisible, we see them millions of light years away.. they are not to hard to spot.. they reflect light, have planets often, are often in a 2 star or more system. 2 star systems can still see the other star when it is furthest away... they are rather bright you know. No life can exist in such a system though.. you have to be in a perfect, none fluctuating environment to produce life.. if another sun comes out of no where and cooks you for a few years you wont evolve.

Just my opinion per say, look it up in a txt book or library book (i trust books more then the Internet) but I am a nerd and read all kinds of crap and hope one day I will be on Jeopardy! - - Though I am very sure of my work!

I was really freaking out about this Planet X stuff a few years ago.
Mark Hazelwood's story kinda paralleled some parts in Revelations (or so it seemed).
Started reading alot about it. Here was one of the sites:
www.planetxinbound.com...
They had another site that described what the earth would go through when it passed.
Absolutely terrifying fiction.

Was over at zetatalk with Nancy and her commune (LOL) reading stuff. They've got tons of pics of Planet X over there *snicker*. Too weird over there. I think she's a bit "spacey" (no pun intended).
www.zetatalk.com...

Here's some fun stuff:
www.zetatalk.com...

Then I stumbled onto Jim McCanney's site. I believe he sort of subscribes to this stuff. Maybe I'm wrong.
www.jmccanneyscience.com...

This is kinda weird. Morbid name for an observatory:
www.ips.gov.au...

What ever happened to Mark Hazelwood?
I thought brown dwarves were not very visible.......dark red?

[edit on 1-2-2007 by rocknroll]

Here's another creepy Planet X style internet tall tale for you all:
www.wovoca.com...
Has anyone debunked this one yet?

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369

Originally posted by IeatALIENS
Even if one were found in our solar system, it would be so far removed from Earth, it would have almost no effect. Then, even if it were found to be on a collision path with Earth, it would be coming in from so far out of our solar system, it would never approach anything near a 2012 date.

That's not true. Read my post above. If the brown dwarf is moving at nearly the same speed as our sun, 486,000 miles per hour, through the galactic medium, it has the potential to travel 25.5 billion miles in the next 6 years. That is nearly 53 times further away than Jupiter is from Earth. Surely if it was that much further away in the dark depths of space, we wouldn't be able to see it for some time. We wouldn't be able to see it until it was a year or two away from us, depending on how large it is. We'll just have to wait and see.

This thing, if it exists, may be rotating towards us many times faster than a planet rotates around the sun. It may be beaming toward us at amazing speeds similar to the sun spinning around the galactic spiral arm.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by ChocoTaco369]

I'm sorry, but that isn't true.

If a Brown Dwarf were orbiting our sun, it's speed in relation to the solar system would not be anything near 486,000 miles an hour.

You are mistaking the speed of expansion as our Sun moves through the Galactic Plane, with the speed of a body orbiting within the system of the Sun. They are 2 different velocities.

In other words:

Say I am the Sun.
Replace 60 miles per hour with 486,000 miles an hour.

I stand in the bed of my friend's truck.
He drives at 60 miles per hour. Therefore, I am moving at 60 miles per hour.
I am the Sun, and I am moving across the galactic plane at 60 miles per hour.
In my one hand, I have a Brown Dwarf. Just by being a part of my system, (being in my hand), it is moving at 60 miles per hour also.
I am spinning around, imitating the rotation of the Brown Dwarf around the Sun.
Although, the Brown Dwarf is moving through the Galactic Plane at 60 miles per hour, it is NOT rotating around the Sun (me) at 60 miles per hour, (because I would throw up).

Back to reality: if a Brown Dwarf were orbiting our Sun at 486,000 miles per hour, it would be a VERY WELL-KNOWN body in our solar system. Because it would be around an awful lot.

That is almost 12 million miles a day. 4 Billion miles a year. If it had such a kooky orbit, that it came into the solar system, at hat speed, even if it were many times farther than Pluto, we would see it passing through every 5 to 50 years, depending on whether you are saying it is as close as Pluto, or 10 times farther away. And, we would notice THAT.


To put this in better perspective, it takes Pluto 247.7 Earth years to orbit the Sun, with an orbit of roughly 7,349,297,800 miles.
That means that although Pluto is moving through the Galactic Plane, with our Sun, at roughly 486,000 per hour, it is actually orbiting the Sun at about 29,670,156.64 miles per year, or
81,288 miles per day, or
3,387 miles per hour.

The Earth orbits the Sun at 67,000 miles per hour. I give that data because the farther an object is away from the Sun, the slower it is orbiting.

So, no. A Brown Dwarf, orbiting the Sun from an orbit even farther out in space, (several times if any), will not be orbiting our Sun at 486,000 miles per hour, even though it may be moving through space at that speed.

And, no, it would not be here any time soon, even if we found it tomorrow.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IeatALIENS]

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IeatALIENS]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Picking up moons. Not Possible.

I hate statements like this. We are humans. We know very little about the universe. Who are you to say what is possible and impossible? You've never even taken a step on another world. The point I'm trying to make is that nobody is qualified to say what is possible and what isn't possible. I'm simply trying to point out that since objects in space move at fantastic speeds, there could surely be a brown dwarf near our solar system far enough away but moving fast enough to collide with us. I realize stars are variable. Perhaps it's moving even faster. Perhaps it's moving 3 times faster than our sun. In this case, we won't be able to see this thing with the naked eye until a few months before collision. What if it's moving 10 times faster? We may only have weeks before collision before we see it. We just don't know and we can't prove or disprove anything. The only thing we can do is give our opinion, but please, don't act like it's a fact. If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that nothing is impossible. Don't discount anything.

2012 seems to be a pretty significant date. It seems like there's a good chance something will happen...but what? Alien contact? Planetary collision? A mass extinction? Absolutely nothing? Who knows, but planet X/brown dwarf collision makes for an awesome tale, and there's plenty of circumstantial evidence out there to support it. Only time will tell. Hopefully I'll still be around to see it. I'm only 20, so I pray to God I will be!

Originally posted by IeatALIENS

I'm sorry, but that isn't true.

If a Brown Dwarf were orbiting our sun, it's speed in relation to the solar system would not be anything near 486,000 miles an hour.

You are mistaking the speed of expansion as our Sun moves through the Galactic Plane, with the speed of a body orbiting within the system of the Sun. They are 2 different velocities.

In other words:

Say I am the Sun.
Replace 60 miles per hour with 486,000 miles an hour.

I stand in the bed of my friend's truck.
He drives at 60 miles per hour. Therefore, I am moving at 60 miles per hour.
I am the Sun, and I am moving across the galactic plane at 60 miles per hour.
In my one hand, I have a Brown Dwarf. Just by being a part of my system, (being in my hand), it is moving at 60 miles per hour also.
I am spinning around, imitating the rotation of the Brown Dwarf around the Sun.
Although, the Brown Dwarf is moving through the Galactic Plane at 60 miles per hour, it is NOT rotating around the Sun (me) at 60 miles per hour, (because I would throw up).

Back to reality: if a Brown Dwarf were orbiting our Sun at 486,000 miles per hour, it would be a VERY WELL-KNOWN body in our solar system. Because it would be around an awful lot.

That is almost 12 million miles a day. 4 Billion miles a year.


To put this in better perspective, it takes Pluto 247.7 Earth years to orbit the Sun, with an orbit of roughly 7,349,297,800 miles.
That means that although Pluto is moving through the Galactic Plane, with our Sun, at roughly 486,000 per hour, it is actually orbiting the Sun at about 29,670,156.64 miles per year, or
81,288 miles per day, or
3,387 miles per hour.

The Earth orbits the Sun at 67,000 miles per hour. I give that data because the farther an object is away from the Sun, the slower it is orbiting.

So, no. A Brown Dwarf, orbiting the Sun from an orbit even farther out in space, (several times if any), will not be orbiting our Sun at 486,000 miles per hour, even though it may be moving through space at that speed.

And, no, it would not be here any time soon, even if we found it tomorrow.

[edit on 1-2-2007 by IeatALIENS]

Who are you to say how fast anything can move? Who says the brown dwarf is orbiting us? Maybe it's orbiting another star and every several million years comes into contact with us? What if it's orbiting an undetected black hole near us? What if it's swinging INTO us instead of with us, making it move even faster? What if it's orbiting one star moving towards the sun at 486,000 miles per hour while the sun is moving towards that star at 486,000 miles per hour? That would mean it's coming at us at nearly 1 million miles per hour? Don't discount anything. There is no reason why this thing, if it's out there, can't reach us in 6 years. If it's a brown dwarf, it's not actually a fully functioning star. so it's going to be nearly impossible to see past the edge of our solar system, but if it's moving hundreds of times faster than the planets around or sun or towards us, it's possible it will come in contact.

Hey, I was just trying to tell you about how things work.
I was focusing on a Brown Dwarf as part of our solar system.

If you are talking about some rogue body just flying around the universe on a random course, you are right, anything could be out there. But, these are 2 different scenarios.

In all honesty though, a Brown Dwarf would have been detected if it were even in the neighborhood.

A better candidate would be a lump of Dark Matter sneaking up on us. Or, something we don't understand. Something new.

For a while, one of the candidates for the Tunguska explosion was a chunk of dark matter.