Religion: Shackles and chains

As an everyday visitor and poster to this site, I am constantly amazed at how many people get upset at other for not having an open mind in regards to UFO's and Aliens, yet those same people get upset anytime the falliblity of the Bible is questioned. I watch people post ideas on here and quote the bible as if it is historical truth. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't, but how are you going to get others to open their minds to say...ufo's or government conspiracy, if you cannot entertain the idea that maybe the Bible isn't all its cracked up to be. Maybe it was never intended to be taken literally but simply metaphorically as to be understood by all. Which happens to be my personal view. I guess what I am trying to say is this, how is it that some can open their minds to the possiblity of just about anything (Aliens, time travel, etc...) yet turn around and refuse to believe that the bible and the way it is currently taught by the Church MIGHT be wrong? Everytime I bring this up to my family(midwestern born-again, speaking in tounges!!!) they say it is just the devil in me trying to sway them. It is highly discouraged to investigate other relgions as that would make it easier to backslide? (backslide should be word of the year if you ask me :roll This to me is ludicris, its like going to the Ford dealership and believing when the tell you that Chevy is evil and wants to kill you once you buy their car. Does anyone else see the conflict of interest here?
Maybe it would be different if there were not money involved but seeing as how not only is it tax-free money but that the Vatican has more money than Bill Gates, the questions lingers, why are there so many poor and hungry starving dying children? I think the answers are pretty obvious(thread title). What was once pure is now used for methods of control. I believe in the absolute, the creator of all, based simply on axioms. I do not believe God has appointed certain men to tell me what he has to say or how he would like his bible translated. Do you see how that instantly allows room for error? I leave you with one final question, who's views do you tend to lean towards his?
or hers?
Just something to CONSIDER.

Well, any organisation can turn corrupt. From organized religions, to Xbox Live members, to the government, to ATS, to your local supermarket.

I always considered faith in a God to be very freeing. Not just a Christian God or Allah or whatever but having the concept of something greater than yourself. Something greater than your government. If you understand the consept of a greater cause or purpose you'll never be bound by any organization or government no matter how corrupt they become. What does mans law mean if there is God? I know many people who are devoutly faithful but havent stepped foot in any church. Church has leaders. All leaders should be feared no matter how pious, just or honorable they seem. Having a leader or a need for one limits your own freedom.

To come out say your only king is above all men is really a very empowering and freeing statement.

Unfortunately, for one reason or another, people flock toward leaders. The Pope, Jim Jones, Blair, Pelosi, Bush, any leader figure at all. The only thing leaders have consistently done throughout history is tell you what not to do and take your property/money away from you.

God might ask you to be charitable and yes, he says we shouldnt steal or murder but he wont throw you in jail for anything and he wont garnish your wages if you arent charitable. Only man does that.

Wow, good thread subject.

I agree with your point of view and I notice a lot of similarities between my own thinking and yours. I too am a mid-westerner, my sisters and brothers and I were raised Roman Catholic and we've all pretty much abandoned the Sunday ritual of going to Mass. Interestingly, my next older sister, Suzy, married a cool guy who happened to be from Tennessee and she decided to accept Jesus into her life as a Southern Baptist, her husband's denomination. More on that following.

I, on the other hand, abandoned Mass and all it's trappings and rituals and never looked back. I love the idea of God, and the examples Jesus set for us in his life, but, my faith is solidified by paranormal happenings more than a book written over 1500 years ago and accepted by so many that it's words are Spiritual Law. I don't see it as a book of laws. I see The Holy Bible more as a "Idiot's Guide to Right and Wrong". I, personally live my life under the Golden Rules that Jesus taught us such as "Do unto others as you would have them, do unto you" and "Turn the other cheek". I refer to my tenets as "Living Karmically". I am a moral man, to the best of my abilities, I make decisions based on logic and not emotion, again, to the best of my abilities. It works for me. It's also understood and generally approved of by my buddy who's "A Good Morman boy". He say's I've boiled it all down to the basics, but, believe's I get the Gist. He gets it. I get it. Chances are, Kleverone, YOU get it.

But, my Born again-Southern Baptist sister, born in '59 and grew up drinking, smoking, partying, Whoo-hoo! Pass the Bong in 1976!!! looks me dead in the eye and says "What's Karma?" whenever I fend off her attempts to get me into the House of Jesus and all his Perpetual Glory crap. She indeed shakes her head and tells me the Devil's squeezing tight.
As if the Devil wasn't there, smacking her on the ass, all through the '70's and early 80's. Oh? By her description, he had her but good. Mention a UFO, and she all but glazes over. I even give her the benefit of the doubt and said he wouldn't make the whole Universe and just stick our asses on a planet in the middle of a great, cold expanse. Why wouldn't he fill the cold expanse with other lives, also in his image, and why couldn't they be more advanced than us, maybe God made them before he made us?

No way, she ain't budging. I hope you find a way to break past the roadblocks a lot of Christians put up to block out the "fantastic" stuff not written in a 2000 year old book.

Whew, I gotta stop there.
But, I dig where ya comin from man.
I dig it.
C

This to me is ludicris, its like going to the Ford dealership and believing when the tell you that Chevy is evil and wants to kill you once you buy their car.

Great analogy there K!

You know, I knew I was going to be able to use this quote today as soon as I read it, but wasn't sure when and where, but this is the perfect time and place.

'And so the population was gradually led into the demoralizing tempations of arcades, baths and sumptuous banquets. The unsuspecting Britons spoke of such novelties as 'civilization', when in fact they were only a feature of their enslavement'

That was Tacitus, writing about the native Britons when Agricola and his men came over and conquered us. But I think the same applies to any great sweeping change that seduces people and provides comfort, whether physical or mental/spiritual. And many religions seduce people with great promises, no promise more seductive than one that claims that to deny it would be to condemn your eternal soul, bit like the Chevy eh?

I would have to say exactly like the chevy Nebankh. I am pleasantly surprised that so many others feel the same way, I was beginning to feel alone Not really but I was a bit surprised by how many people on here refuse to even entertain the idea of the bible being anything other than what it is presented by the church. I mean come on this is ATS dangit, not Godlikeproductions.com

Originally posted by kleverone
As an everyday visitor and poster to this site, I am constantly amazed at how many people get upset at other for not having an open mind in regards to UFO's and Aliens, yet those same people get upset anytime the falliblity of the Bible is questioned. I watch people post ideas on here and quote the bible as if it is historical truth. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't, but how are you going to get others to open their minds to say...ufo's or government conspiracy, if you cannot entertain the idea that maybe the Bible isn't all its cracked up to be.

It's interesting to hear these conventional ideas once again -- you do realise that we all get this every day of our lives in the media? -- but there seems nothing new here. The characteristic failure is to state the alternative -- which always seems to be living by the values that happen to be fashionable in the time in which someone writes. I can't see that living by values which are merely those of a period of time, which were not believed 50 years ago and will be treated with derision in 50 years time, is a rational thing to do. But when we read material such as that which you repeat here, that is what its real authors are insinuating that we should do.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Well, Kleverone, you shouldn't feel too alone in your feelings towards religion, just move here to NYC and you won't feel so alone. In fact, you would find it to be quite the opposite of where you currently live.

If you're a Christian around here, you're gonna hear it, all the time.

I think the problem is that most people, on both sides of the argument, have a problem separating the Church (whichever it might be) and the Bible, God, Jesus, or anything else.

The church is a beaurocracy, created by man, that aims to take that which is freely given, and make it something you need to pay for.

I'm a Christian, I follow the words and teachings of Jesus Christ as they are written in the Bible. I know when I'm reading a parable, I'm not the typical brainless bible thumping mid-westerner the atheists would have you believe all Christians are.

I understand that my Bible is only as true as the translation I read, I can't read it in Greek so I have to take it with that in mind. Greek is a deeply complex language with meanings and rules we won't understand in an English sense (i.e. the Trinity doctrine)

I understand that not all of the Bible is to be taken exactly as it says, it's quite obvious if you actually read the Bible.

Which is what I think is wrong with starting a debate about this subject. The believers have trouble questioning the Bible and the Church, while the non-believers generally choose to dismiss it all outright.

The Bible is about personal truth, I turn to it to find an answer, not an Earthly answer, but one that rings true in my heart. MY heart, lol.

Just because you can point out a long list of logical fallacies, historical inaccuracies or anything else that you deem "proof that the Bible is false" doesn't make it any less true. If I can read it, and find a solution to a major personal dilema, then how false can it be?

Now, I'm a Christian, but up until a few months ago I was never a member of any church, I attended a few but never identified myself by one. I DO NOT believe in church.

I believe that there are quite a few doctrines and organized beliefs that are expressly proven false in the Bible. There are many points, stories, and quotes in the Bible that point to the idea of not aligning yourself with any church.

Do not be deceived, going to church does not make you a Christian, nor does being a Christian mean you must go to church. Church can be fun, but in my mind it's quite separate from my personal beliefs and my personal relationship with Jesus and my higher power.

I would even go so far as to say that the church (most, perhaps not all) have committed the "Abomonation of Desolation" by teaching false doctrines and leading their followers in the worship and praise of the creations of man, in which case God is not in that church, and therefore is COMPLETELY separate from Jesus. I suppose that's for another thread though.

So to recap:

Church and Jesus are separate things

Church doesn't make you a Christian

Science can never disprove the truth of the Bible

The "truth" of the Bible is a personal truth

The ONLY way to be a true Christian is to follow the words and teaching of Jesus Christ

Your church is most likely lying to you.