Muslim leader: It's the woman's fault who is raped. She's "uncovered meat"

flighty,

Yeah he needs something to save him from the controversy he has caused.



In Pace Always
res

resitancia,

re: "Oz women got balls". Yer turn of phrase is okay in my book.

One day, I and some friends were recording some vocals and I implored Lisa to sing her part a little more agressively. She wanted to know what I meant and Tex chimed in with, "Sing it like ye got a pair!". I said, "Hey, she does! Lisa, sing it from yer ovaries!"

She sang the s@#t out of that song.

thanks matey


In Pace Always
resi


Remember: I am but uncovered meat

[edit on 27-10-2006 by resistancia]

Originally posted by half_mindedIf Islam was so bad, then all women of Islam would have left it by now. Millions are still following it willingly. Millions still wear viel willingly.

Is this true? I was under the impression that leaving the muslim faith was not quite that easy.

In response to the comment of women leaving their herritage, their culture; It's hard to leave a country, religion, family that you have grown up around. From what I understand, most are raised that uncovering yourself is temptation to a man, not a welcome for rape. I am almost positive that all Muslims do not view women like pieces of meat and blame them if they get raped. There are nut cases like this all over the world.

This guy slandered both women and men as far as I am concerned. He slandered and degraded women by claiming it would be their fault if they got raped and he slandered men by basically stating that men don't have ANY control and they are animalistic.

I never believed in evolution, but I am starting to believe that maybe some brains just never evolved and never will.

We all need to try and keep our own senses and not lump people in categories; Muslims, Christians, etc. who make rude remarks or hold abnormal beliefs. There are always people that will hide behind religion and use it for evil purposes; rude remarks, personal gain, power and add their own beliefs to their religion and justify them. It causes so much damage all the way around.

He is just trying to stir up hatred. It just makes me "not very fond" of him and view him as an idiot.

awhile back, in Italy, some judged ruled that a women wan't raped, why?? well, it's simple, the women was wearing a pair of tight fitted jeans on at the time, and well, he assumed that the man would have such a hard time taking the things off of her, well, it just wouldn't have happened. Mousilini's daugher is a member of their parliment or whatever they calll it...she arranged for a "skirt strike" to take place...women across the country traded their skirts for tight fitted jeans to protect them from rape.

Maybe the women in australia could repond in like manner? since, well, you have it on good authority, an Italian judge, that it's impossible to rape a women in tight fitted jeans?

is the nice muslim cleric still alive or did a group of angry women throw him off a bridge dressed in 5000 burkas?

Originally posted by centurion1211
How about admitting the truth - that instead of it just being a case of a nutcase ranting, it's an example of how it's the muslim leaders that are helping create the world-wide problem.

How about everyone stop giving these nutcases any attention. thats all they desire.
As I said, if muslims were really listening to him, they would be out raping australian women right now, but thats not the case. People maybe go and listen to him. But they themselves choose what to follow and what not to. What to disregard and what to accept. And since this guy is such a nut, people won't keep coming to listen to him for long.

Originally posted by centurion1211
I am getting sick and tired of people that will lower themselves to this extent in an attempt to defend their own - who in this case are indefensible.

I am sicn and tired of people like you constantly accusing me without any basis for your claims. When did I defend the mufti? You are doing nothing but promoting hate towards muslims. If you read my post, I specifically stated that I was against the mufti's opinion. Also, I was called out by another one like you, DoctorFungi. So I had to come and give him a piece.

As usual, people like you come bashing at me no matter what I say, just cause I am muslim. I see no difference between the mufti and you. Mufti misinterprets the Quran and you completely change my words and assume the exact opposite.

Read my posts before you bashing me.

Originally posted by centurion1211
How about admitting the truth - that instead of it just being a case of a nutcase ranting, it's an example of how it's the muslim leaders that are helping create the world-wide problem.

Also, it is not just muslims leaders creating problems. Muslim extremist leaders have been around for hundreds of years, yet somehow, these days they are being focused non-stop and being put in the spotlight. They like the attention and they will say whatever they want for their own purposes. They like being leaders and they will say or do watever helps them stay in power.

Media and the government are also responsible for the problems worldwide.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by half_mindedIf Islam was so bad, then all women of Islam would have left it by now. Millions are still following it willingly. Millions still wear viel willingly.

Is this true? I was under the impression that leaving the muslim faith was not quite that easy.

Leaving any religion is not easy. Most of the time you have to break off ties with family and relatives to break off from religion. thats how it is in the East. Take India for example, ask any Hindu if they can convert to a different religion and see what they say. They will tell you that it would pretty much mean breaking relations from every family they got. In the east it is very rare that you will find a family that will accept ur change of religion. This is with ALL religions and not just Islam. In India, we have so many hindus being killed for leaving their religiong. Girls being killed for adultery and marriage without consent, etc. Yet, you dont see the media focusing on the Hindus. Explain why.

As for death for leaving Islam. Let me tell you something you guys probably did nit know. Out of the five prayers muslims have to pray everyday. The evening one (4th one) is very important. Quran says that if you miss that prayer then you are automatically not a muslim. But millions and millions of muslims miss it. Yet they are alive. Its just a matter of taking words out of quran for you own benefits. Mufti leaders use out of context words which were meant for the old times and use it in modern times to promote their agenda and stay in power. Thats all it is.

Every government, every leaders does just that. Protects his power by any means necessary. But the media loves to portray muslims as evil. Explain why.

I think this is a perfect example of what Islam truly is. They shouldn't try to hide it, this man was simply speaking the truth of how women are viewed from the Islamic perspective, to think of him as some 'nut case' would not be accurate. Without a doubt he shares the ideals of many muslims.

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
What about the boys currently being investigated in Werribee? They are mostly Italian/Australian Catholics.
Link

What about the current rash of rapes on the north side of Brisbane?

What relevence do these links and rapes have to this thread?

Originally posted by resistancia
I am interested in the misogynistic views of men (any men) and this time it just happens to be a Muslim man.

The problem is that the Qur'an and hadith support his general views on women being a second class; though it, of course, doesn't use words such as "second class". It uses phrases such as: "Men are the maintainers of women" and presents the notion that a woman's testimony in legal matters is worth 1/2 that of a man's. There are other references that that place women with less value than men. All these together are what give Muslim men, in general, the permission to subjugate women.

Originally posted by half_minded
How about everyone stop giving these nutcases any attention. thats all they desire.

The problem is that all the wrong people are giving leaders like this attention by going to their sermons. The general public needs to pay attention to this "nut" and all those like him. From this post it clearly seems you are unaware of how rapidly this "extreme" or Wahabi form of Islam is growing.

Originally posted by half_minded
As I said, if muslims were really listening to him, they would be out raping australian women right now, but thats not the case.

The issue isn't whether people are acting on what this guy is saying. This issue is where does this guy the mindset that compels him to believe what he is saying.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
The problem is that all the wrong people are giving leaders like this attention by going to their sermons. The general public needs to pay attention to this "nut" and all those like him.

To me he was indirectly telling muslim men to go around raping white women. Thats what 'no habbib' means. Kind of reminds me of when Osama called for people to join his Jihad.. at least he's a little more direct when declaring war on non muslims. What a pig. I hope he gets deported. I don't know how to verify this but I was that the government tried to deport him a couple of years ago and he was made a cleric to avoid it? Can being in a church give someone immunity? Apparently his followers are standing by their man.. I'm now wondering if the race rapes in Sydney were 'inspired' by a sermon. I think if I were a muslim I'd be going elsewhere to pray and demanding he stand down. Most muslim women I know wear the head gear as a statement of belief.. not one of shame.

Originally posted by half_minded

I am sicn and tired of people like you constantly accusing me without any basis for your claims. When did I defend the mufti? You are doing nothing but promoting hate towards muslims. If you read my post, I specifically stated that I was against the mufti's opinion. Also, I was called out by another one like you, DoctorFungi. So I had to come and give him a piece.

As usual, people like you come bashing at me no matter what I say, just cause I am muslim.

Yoour posts were read - loud and clear. And I'm seeing little difference between you and the people you attempt to defend.

I rightfully called you on this not because you are a muslim, but because you attempted to downplay this muslim leader's actions rather than condemn them (your quote below).

Originally posted by half_minded
So one stupid guy made a stupid comment and since he is muslim, all of you come bashing at the muslims. What about all the religious leaders across that condemned his words and apologized for it. Why ignore them and listen to this one jerk.

Again, this is not just "one stupid guy" as you attempt to portray him. He is the leader of all muslims in Australia. muslims can go insane over a cartoon, and that's OK. But when one of your leaders says or does something outrageously terrible, well, that's kind of OK, too (Just some nutcase. Nothing to see here. Just move along).

Your leader was wrong to say that stuff and you are wrong to try and make it seem like it was nothing at all.

Originally posted by laiguana
I think this is a perfect example of what Islam truly is. They shouldn't try to hide it, this man was simply speaking the truth of how women are viewed from the Islamic perspective, to think of him as some 'nut case' would not be accurate. Without a doubt he shares the ideals of many muslims.

And without a doubt I can say that you are anti-muslim and if it were upto you, you would kill some too. I am sure you share the same ideas as your one world, money hungry government. Infact, every muslim should consider you a terrorist without a doubt and probably sentence you to jail.

See how easy it is to pass judgement. Anyone can do it. Including someone like you who lacks knowledge and tries to pass judgements without any basis to your claims or any sensible reasoning.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
The issue isn't whether people are acting on what this guy is saying. This issue is where does this guy the mindset that compels him to believe what he is saying.

It should be a issue when someone actually follows his teachings. Doesnt everyone keep screaming about freedom of speech. Wat happened to it now. What happened to right of opinion. What happened to all the people who were defending the danish cartoonist and the pope on the basis of freedom of speech.

I can see how its so easy to go about muslim bashing when the media is doing its best to portray these people who have no idea what islam is all about.

I dont agree with the mufti one bit. He also makes me angry and makes me wish he was not muslim. But that does not mean watever he says should become world headline.

Unless some rapist actually claims and is proven that he followed the mufti's teachings to commit the crime, do not come around with the double standards about his opinion. Let him bark all he wants, its Freedom of Speech remember, the thing you guys always throw at the muslims. Let him bark and move along. Unless he causes some real harm, leave him and every other muslim alone. Stop being hypocrites.

Centurion1211,

Do you speak english? I doubt it or you would have understood what i wrote in CLEAR words rather than assuming stuff and twisting my words.

Let me put it in even more SIMPLER words for you who think im not condemning the mufti.


I WOULD KICK HIS ASS IF HE SAID THAT IN FRONT OF ME. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HIM. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HIM.

Clear enough for all you people who dont speaketh englishe?

Originally posted by doctorfungi
This guy should be arrested or at worst deported. Pig.

Arrested and deported for what? For being a jerk? DO you actually think he is the first guy to blame the victim rather than the attacker? The guy's a moron, if his position is official, then anyone that supports him in that position should be ashamed of themselves and they should throw him out of the position, but not the country. THats ludicrous.

"I had only intended to protect women's honour, something lost in The Australian presentation of my talk."

What an arrogant statement. Its the aussies that have maliciously changed his meaning, or 'misunderstood' his sensible statements? Is this guy kidding?
Rapists don't rape because the think a girl is pretty, there isnt' anything a woman can do to prevent it in terms of what she is wearing. Its an assualt, its a domination and power issue. He is saying that, if this girl hadn't been dressed all sexylike, then these rapists wouldn't have even been motivated to rape her.
NONSENSE.
Rape is a 'sexist' assault, just like going out ot beat up a black guy, or a muslim would be a 'racist' assault.

flighty
Who is to know what exactly is being preached in these Mosques in Arabic?

Anyone that understand arabic and bothers to attend.

If this is only a small example then it I think it wont be long that it will be law that all sermons will have to done in English.

Thats completely absurd.

I wonder why the 500 odd people at the sermon didnt find this disgusting and distressing

Its it really all that much of a wonder? The guy is obviously a jerk, his followers, who know him and attended his sermons, are also jerks.

Why is it that muslims who surely must go to these mosques and hear this kind of stuff are only apologetic when "caught" or "found out"?

What, you think that there is some secret phone-line that all muslims use to communicate with eachother with? How the heck are muslims throughout australia supposed to know what this guy is saying?

Why aren't australians in general apoligizing for these statements, made by a fellow australian? THis guy isn't the only goober in the rural areas that thinks 'only sluts get raped'.

I've known for ages what Muslims really think of western women.

Since muslims are roundly rejecting these statements, I don't see how you can pretend to know anything here.

Shame on them for coming to the country that took them in and had a heart and letting their muftis teach such hate and intolerance.

Shame on australia for calling for the mass deportation and monitoring of muslims within their country, shame on australia for letting them come in pretending ot be a free country and then saying that anyone that says anything unpopular gets kicked out. Oh, wait, its not anyone that makes these statements, only 'evil muslims' that are questioned.

resistancia
NOT ONE VULGARITY

Well jolly well good for you, now try to keep it up. Is it really that difficult to stick to the terms that you agreed with when you came to this site? You were explicitly told not curse and not to use asterixes and the like to 'circumvent the censors'.

We have always been fairly tolerant here but I think that is going to change...rapidly

Well thats pretty disgusting. This guy is a jerk, therefore all muslims should be put on notice? What a joke. Its the same mentality that says 'slutty girls that lead guys on deserve to get raped'.

I am currently trying to organise a national day of protest in Australia due to the fact that this morning we have woken to the news that the Sheik is able to continue with his hatred towards 'uncovered meat'

Good, the good people in australia should stand up to this ignorant nitwit of a man.

godsent
What is really sad is that there are many creepy men who will use his comments as justification for their own behavior.

No one is going to become a rapist because of this, and clearly no court is going to accept this as an excuse to rape.

factfinder38
The USA does not compare in any way but I was waiting for you or someone else to blame Bush or America somehow.

Perhaps you should try paying attention to america if you think that no one in america has ever said that a rape victim in one way or another 'brought it upon herself'.

doctorfungi
Lol where's half_minded with his pro-muslim BS?

What is your problem? Are you here to have a sensible discussion, or rattle the cages of fellow posters? BEcause, in case you haven't been paying attention, we DO NOT PERMIT that.

au.news.yahoo.com...
Mr Howard said the episode was a crucial test for Australia's Muslim community.
"It's not for the government to say who runs a mosque, or who's an archbishop, or who's a rabbi," he told Southern Cross Broadcasting.

Indeed, its not the governements place. Its pathetic that the people that can throw this bum out haven't.

Muslim leaders decided not to sack Sheik Alhilali, the mufti of Australia

What leaders? And what makes them think that they are leaders any longer?

freedom_for_sum
If you take the time to read the Qur'an and Hadith you'd notice that Islam, if taken literally, percieves women as property who voices have significantly less worth that that of their men.

This is not a problem with the koran. There are perfectly pious muslims in australia dennoucning this pig's statemets. Every holy book has been used to justify horrible acts, the koran is no different.

e problem is that the Qur'an and hadith support his general views on women being a second class; though it, of course, doesn't use words such as "second class".

In strict keeping with the judeo-christian tradition, yes.

diseria
Likewise, if taken literally, the Bible says that Jesus was resurrected and that he also walked on water, not to mention healed lepers by his very touch.. However, I'm fairly certain that we (now) realize that they are stories...

It also says that a widow who remaries is commiting adultery. If the Mufti had said that, there'd probably be even more people calling for oppression of muslims.

flighty
"More dangerous yet are the sex education classes in the schools.

This is standard fare from religious leaders of all types.

half_minded
How about everyone stop giving these nutcases any attention. thats all they desire.

There is absolutely no reason to not stand up to stupid thugs.

I WOULD KICK HIS ASS IF HE SAID THAT IN FRONT OF ME. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HIM. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HIM.
Clear enough for all you people who dont speaketh englishe?

Its ok, you'll be ignored along with all the muslims that are speaking out against this, like usual. It won't be long before we see more people saying 'why aren't the muslims condemning these actions'.

laiguana
I think this is a perfect example of what Islam truly is.

You mean the reaction of the vast majority of muslims in austrailia against the muftis idiotic comments? Yes, it probably is indicative of islam's actual nature.