Do you still support the IRAQ WAR??? Read this!!!

Bottom line the war in Iraq is a fiasco and right now even the same administration that started this war has not clue or brains on how to end their fiasco.

I would really like all of these scholars of war that post on this board to give me a example of war through history that has gone better.
It does not matter what you think or I think about this war it is being fought for a reason and if that reason is to send a message to the rest of the world then so be it.
America can not have that part of the world controled by Islamist ,and yes it may have something to do with oil but if you want America as we know it to survive get over it.
The Muslims are involved in about 15 or more current actions around the world but none of you seem to see what they have done in Africa or the Phillipines or any of the other places they are killing people who will not follow their religon.

Originally posted by half_minded

* The U.S. death toll is well above 2,700, and the coalition death toll just passed 3,000. Last month 776 U.S. troops were wounded -- the highest number in nearly two years. There is no sign the insurgency is waning, and no evidence to suggest it will any time soon.

In other words, there is no evidence that US is winning the war or that this war is going anywhere other than more bloodshed.

IMHO, if these figures are correct, in a few years, there won't be anyone left in IRAQ to protect. Then the U.S. can claim it as a U.S. territory and we'll have all the oil we want.

Folks have to remember that the overall number 1 objective of this war has been met and met some time ago: Removal of Saddam and regime change. That was the stated goal and it was achieved rather easily. The nation rebuilding part is the what folks over-estimated. No matter what happens we didnt lose...we acheived the main overall goal. We're just trying to help the folks out...we removed your dictator...heres your chance at a better life. If you wont take it, i say we cut on out before long.

I always say:

Support the troops, but never trust the politicians.

Marge you are right and possibly understated when you say fiasco. Its a zoo.

Sadr Militia Seizes Control of Southern City of Amarah

By Louise Roug
Times Staff Writer
Published October 20, 2006, 2:23 PM CDT


BAGHDAD -- The national government dispatched a high-level delegation to the southern city of Amarah today after Shiite militiamen took over the city in two days of fighting and blew up several police stations after officers fled, witnesses and officials said.

Police barricaded themselves inside their stations and fought off the attackers, but eventually fled after running out of ammunition. The militiamen, affiliated with Shiite cleric Muqtada Sadr, then stormed the stations. At least 15 people were killed in fighting today and 90 people were injured. Another seven were killed the previous day.


Sadr also sent representatives to the city, according to officials from his organization.

The offensive by Sadr's Mahdi army militia highlighted how difficult it has become for the central government and its security forces to control Shiite militias in the capital and in the south.

Source


It seems like the place is going to become an Iranian annex , and become another Islamic government. This group holds over 30 seats in Parliament.


Pie

Flyboy, you can keep arguing and keep twisting my words but one thing is a fact: Iraq war was started on lies.

That alone should be good reason to not support the war.

Coalitions troops are not helping in Iraq. Their mission is to kill enemies. Anyone who fights against them is automatically an enemy or a terrorist.

Rebuilding Iraq......thats a very hypocrite statement when its the war that destroyed Iraq in the first place.

But I don't think you will understand that the Iraqi people dont need your help, they never asked for it, and you have only made their lives worse.

So stop trying to 'help' and leave their country. Thats my whole point.

Arguing in length about it is not gonna prove anything. Bottomline is simple as I stated above.

For the record.. I support the troops. My brother in law is a high ranking Army man with my sister high ranking but out of the Army to raise kids.

However,

I have NEVER supported the war and knew from the beginning that it would be the "beginning of the end" even though I didn't know why at the time it all started. (I just knew) Now that some time has gone by my gut feelings and suspicions have been confirmed in a HUGE way.

I have made up my mind and I don't have a lot of patience for people that still support the war. I even have a little resentment saved up especially for all the apostate Christians and war supporters who NOW have changed their mind. Unfortuntely for all of 'you' I believe it's too late, you should have seen this coming. Oh, that's right.. If you were truly spiritually discerning you would have!


The only thing I want to say to any war supporter is this:


When our Constitution and Bill of Rights are finally GONE once and for all and you all are SLAVES to what the Bible calls "the great men of the earth" we will all see if you STILL support the war.

I seriously doubt you will.





[edit on 21-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Ok, I admit....When the war first started, and I responded by saying that terrorists can be in any country, at any time-so how can there be a war on terror in Afghanistan and Iraq? Especially when the original terrorists were from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? I was a little skeptical. But then, after 9/11 and not one single jet was questioned after going off the radar until too late (Here in Phoenix, one plane didn't respond because of radio failure, after 3 minutes a military jet was off and running to respond) a number of coincidences just seem to make me think that there was questionable actions on the part of the BUSHCO administration that seemed to be a propaganda blitz.

This war was probably about going after Saddam, who.... tried to assasinate Georgies daddy. Then this war was about Saddam, who after sanctions were filed against Iraq, didn't like being inspected for WMD. Then this war was about Saddam who was killing people (unlike the Sudan genocide)- and we had to do something about it. Then this war was about the mass hysteria, spread through the propaganda machine - the marvelous Weapons of Mass Destruction..... The shock and awe used up all the weapons surplus that we had to use or lose- and the military machine was put in motion.

Forget the politics, and look at the cookies that the war has gleaned for the Pentagon and the manufacturers of weapons.

The taxes and the future taxes for generations has filled the coffers, while keeping the American economy at Dow Jones 12,000 for two days straight!

It's alittle about oil and alittle about failed democracy, (especially when you know that the three tribes were never going to agree about the proceeds of the oil)- it's about keeping permanent military bases in Iraq, and the attempt to keep the oil trading in the dollar, and it's about Cheney and Haliburton making off with all those nice no bid contracts for the military machine. NO ACC'OUNTaBiliTY. So, with lockheed martin profits and a few dead jarheads- what price does America pay for being 'sheeple'?

Well the middle class is whining now- and the domestic programs are starved off the vine- and your economic security is tied up in what the gas prices will be (and inflation) this Christmas. While kids are getting guns in schools, and women are being shot (and gay men) by domestic violence- the gun makers get richer. And the bomb makers get richer. And the stockholders get richer. So look in your backyard and install those motion detector lights, and live in a gated community, and hire your own personal body guards- It's looking like Bolivia, columbia - all the time.

Greed , Anger, And Foolishness makes for bad karma.

Me, I'm just going to fly my powered para-glider, until I break it and can't fix it no more. And plant a garden. And give this current administration my full unsupport by quitting my corporation job (can't have those federal tax dollars going down the drain) and work under the table just like all my neighbors who are illegal immigrants that send THEIR money (5.2 billion) to MEXICO. And smoke Cuban cigars

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
For the record.. I support the troops. My brother in law is a high ranking Army man with my sister high ranking but out of the Army to raise kids.




[edit on 21-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

what does stating that they are a "high rank" have to do with anything u were tryin to prove? .. congrats.. woot woot.. so whats that make you... the one tryin to get glory for their rank?

How many people have received this e-mail?

America WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign US embassy set the stage for the events to follow for the next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Viet Nam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism. America's military had been decimated and downsized / right sized since the end of the Viet Nam war. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more. Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut. 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more. Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber. The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid. Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the Snooze Alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US soil is continually attacked. Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed. The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259. America wants to treat these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war ... the Wake Up alarm is louder and louder.

The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women. A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500.

The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively. They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision, they kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979. The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.

America has to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to hit the Snooze Button again and roll over and go back to sleep. We have to make the terrorists know that in the words of Admiral Yamamoto after the attack on Pearl Harbor "that all they have done is to awaken a sleeping giant."

Thank you very much.

Dan Ouimette
Source

This was from a speech given by Captain Ouimette, Commander of Training Air Wing 1, Pensacola, FL, in 2003.

My husband was in a coma for three days from injuries sustained in the Beirut attack. Americans were outraged, but not outraged enough to do anything about it. Too often I hear people say things like, "They're military, they're supposed to die for our country." This attitude is ALWAYS from people who do not have family members in harm's way.

The war in Iraq has gone awry. A change needs to be made. I'm just not so sure that pulling our troops out now will make any difference in the grand scheme. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it's almost impossible to get him back in.

Originally posted by Edn
you cant win a war if you don't know who your enemy is.

The Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan can not win because there not fighting a single force there fighting a ghost.

It's much worse than that actually.

They are fighting an unseen enemy for an unseen ally.. Israel. That is the real problem, Washington has not been able to convince most people that this war is for US interests rather than some third party and the US is a puppet.

I think that is what irks a lot of citizens that currently sacrifice for this and all those that will sacrifice for this war in future.