Apocalypse Now!

What if Saint John was wrong? What if the bible was written without his 2 cents?

If anyone here has studied apocolyptic writtings how does his differ?

Can someone with true understanding explain why Messiah or Anti is really needed? Do you think we could just evolve or is a trial and tribulation needed?

Its written in many that there will be a final judgement of people. If a person has died why have they not been judged yet? So this is saying they are in an afterlife now or just dead? If the final judgement is for eternal death, well than why is this gran finale needed?

See my point? Can't we develop ourselves without a helping hand or a hurting hand? I imagine a few are familar with what is out there or extreme levels you can push yourself on a spiritual level. I guess what I am getting at is just say there are a few that have developed in a sense of wisdom/spirtual sense beyond most people's understanding without seeing or experiencing, could this ever be made public? Or would this fall in the hands of a global uniting equaling antichrist,etc?





[edit on 11-7-2006 by chemlabco]

The apocalypse doesn't necessariyl have anything to do with developing anything. In the semitic religions, there is this idea that the world will end, and that there will be a particular figure associated with it, whether its the jewish messiah, christ, or the mahdi.

IOW, we can't necessarily think that the remnants of the myths and fears of prehistoric goat-herders to make much sense.

. If a person has died why have they not been judged yet?

Because in these old religions when a person dies, they don't go to some paradisical garden like people like to think. For the ancient greeks, it was thought that there must be something permanent in the person, but not anything that was actually like them, only a mere shadow of the person would continue on, erased of all memory, in the underworld. In the Epic of Gilgamesh, the dead wander around as shades, eating clay instead of bread, drinking dust instead of water.
After death, there isn't necessarily a heaven that a person goes into as a reward, for the jews, you go into 'sheol', which is apparently just a word for 'the grave', ie, you die, and lay in the grave, forever, until the world ends. In the christian religion, the same thing happens, you enter the grave, then at the end of the universe, the body is physically restored, thats why they didn't go for cremation. Then judgement occurs, and everyone that isn't 'saved' gets annihilated in a 'lake of fire', ie, is no longer existant, and everyone that is saved, lives on physically, in a 1,000 year kingdom, and then the universe blinks out of existence.

So there are all these weird and confusing ideas because its stemming from an ancient religion that we are trying to undertstand completely out of the context in which it was invented. Its like people from one culture trying to understand a another completely alien culture.

Originally posted by chemlabco
Can't we develop ourselves without a helping hand or a hurting hand?

Obviously not, from what I see. The world isn't getting much better--technology and intelligence advance--but common sense and humanitarism seem to be falling by the wayside for the most part. Everyone's always anticipating this or that start to WWIII and total annhilation, etc.... Those are human thoughts, totally.

I imagine a few are familar with what is out there or extreme levels you can push yourself on a spiritual level.

That's called insanity, isn't it? Pushing one's self to those extremes is foolish, IMO.

I guess what I am getting at is just say there are a few that have developed in a sense of wisdom/spirtual sense beyond most people's understanding without seeing or experiencing, could this ever be made public?

I'm sure it would have to be--otherwise, what would be the point?

Or would this fall in the hands of a global uniting equaling antichrist,etc?

How could it? That's a bunch of fairytale nonsense anyway--if any thing is 'anti'christ it is religion, and religion isn't going to be able to recognize esoteric truths---dogma makes one blind to that kind of thing. They would be the only ones seeing something good as 'anti'christ anyway--paranoia or a guilty conscience, is what I say is the cause. :shk:

Apocalypse, from Wikipedia:

However, the Apocalypse technically refers to the unveiling of God, in his guise as the Messiah, and not to all of the destruction of the world which will accompany God's Revelation of Himself to Humankind.

An Apocalypse in the terminology of early Jewish and Christian literature, is a revelation of hidden things given by God to a chosen prophet; this term is more often used to describe the written account of such a revelation.

and...

The Apocalypse entails a revelation of mysteries, things which lie beyond the ordinary range of human knowledge. God gives to prophets or saints instruction in regard to hidden matters, whether things altogether foreign to human experience, or merely events in human history which have not yet come to pass

The symbolism and what-not tends to be of the same fashion, even extending to the ancient mythos of various cultures--most people don't see it because they're too hung up on religious justification and the need to be the one with the 'right' God--condemning all other things and sources of information. But actually, the human race is one race--the cultures vary, but the underlying history is the same history.

The element of the mysterious, apparent in both the matter and the manner of the writing, is a marked feature in every typical Apocalypse. The literature of visions and dreams has its own traditions, which are remarkably persistent; and this fact is unusually well illustrated in the group of Jewish (or Jewish-Christian) writings under consideration.

It has a lot to do with Jungian archetypes--especially when it comes to dreams and visions...

Apocalypse Now! Is a good song. Funny how you named this thread the name of the song. I suggest you go look it up under Reggi and the Full Effect.