The Great Africa HIV/AIDS Joke

Originally posted by zerotolerance
Gimme a break. Certain sectors of the gay community this is more prevalent: especially the leather community.
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You're just anoher gay man who can't handle the truth about his own community and won't admit it's shortcomings.
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Any gay man that comes down with an HIV+ status in this day and age, knowing full well how to avoid catching the virus is an irresponsible idiot IMHO. This is the truth and you cannot refute it.
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Here: read all the dumb, lame, selfish, inexcusable reasons gay men bareback knowing they could risk HIV infection.

You're saying I'm ignorant and in denial. It's quite funny.

It must be the generation gap. I'm a good 16 years younger than you. Agreeably a different generation, no? Most of my friends are in the same age group, but in general their ages range from 38 to 15. Point remaining that not a single one of them would put an orgasm above their own lives. You come from a generation that were in their "height" in the 80's. The time when HIV/AIDS equalled homosexuality. Your generation may still be stuck in the same promiscuous way of going round town, but my generation is much more informed.
All the people you know that died of AIDS... When were they infected? More than 6-10 years ago, yes?

You think I don't know what's going on out there? Sex-parties, orgies, raves, glory-holes, anonymous meetings for sex, and you know the list... I don't know where you've been, but the gay community (and I know this for certain about the South African gay community) is shaping up (and have been doing so for at least 5 years) to get rid of their "bad name" and the stereo-type.

The sorts you're talking about - are in many cases married men, who are in denial about their sexuality... And you keep going on about homosexuals that go "bareback". You think it doesn't happen in the "straight communities"? They have leathers, orgies, swingers, and anonymous sex - a lot of this happens without protection against STD's... My original post is a great example of how certain cultures won't touch condoms. Need I even mention the Catholics?

Does this sound familiar?

I am an ex-gay man and can tell you that back in the 1980's when AIDS was really decimating the gay community, every gay man I knew who was HIV+ died from AIDS. I never knew, met, or heard about any gay men dying of AIDS that was HIV-. None. Every one of them that was HIV+ died.

One moment you're gay, next moment you're not... You're IN... You're OUT... You're IN.... You've got your own little movie going there... Who's in denial now?
And look clearly at what you're saying ... "back in the 1980's"... This is 20 years later.

I cannot deny that there is a certain type of promiscuity and "sexual suicide" in the gay community - but no more or less than in the "straight community"...
I can assure you that the majority of gay men are no longer willing to gamble with their lives.

Please don't call me in denial or ignorant if you're still stuck in the 80's and/or in denial of your own sexuality. This has gone way off topic, my apologies, but I just can't handle it when people look down on homosexuality and/or call us stupid.

Originally posted by Gemwolf
My original post is a great example of how certain cultures won't touch condoms.

I heard this story once, although it is about birth control rather than the spreading of STD's--it is pertaining to your statement:

Peace corps or some such group went to a primitive village in a 3rd world country and taught them about condoms, because they were too many babies, not enough food, etc.

And so in all properness and lack of better props, they demonstrated the application by showing the people how to put one on the end of a broomstick.

So, they come back a year later--even more kids! They are puzzled until they go into the huts--every hut had a broom which was proudly displaying a condom!

Probably just an anecdote, but still rather though-provoking, IMO.

I think that denial of all sorts is a serious problem--it's something we all do when problems seem too big. And so, considering the issue here and the degree of problem it is becoming in these places such as the one you posted about--it must surely be such an overwhelming burden for this ex-president to face--he is both bound by his own superstitions/cultural habits as well as needing to a way to cope with his responsibility toward many many people. No doubt he's totally unaware of this complexity--and so to many he might appear to be willfully ignorant and in denial.

I think it is a sad and regretful thing for all parties involved--worldwide. It is a hard thing to face: an illness that we cannot eliminate with treatment or vaccine.

reply to post by zerotolerance

I actually depends on what you believe,don't be quick to judge as stupid or ignorant.There is evidence that HIV does not cause AIDS and there is a South African guy with who survived on a diet for more than 10 yrs without ARV's.Some people with HIV have stayed without developing AIDS and some people with AIDS are not HIV positive.You can look it up on the net or even on ATS.So stop and think before you accuse people of stone age mentality.Though in some way you are right about ignorance playing some part in the spread but it's not as wide spread.Some people are trying to stay alive, I don't think you expect africans to be as stupid as to kowingly rush to their death, there must be another cause or reason.Nobody is that stupid,not even in Afric.by the way I Live in Botswana.

i have a book entitled Aids and Ebola, Nature, Accident of Intentional by Dr. Leonard Horowitz. Intentional. Remember the movie w/Tom Cruse and one of the Mission Impossible films where the pharmaceutical companies came up with the disease, had the cure and wanted to infect everyone? This book is quite informative. www.tetrahedron.org...

also, Death In The Air................great book by Horowitz.

[edit on 22-1-2008 by musselwhite]

Originally posted by Gemwolf
President Thabo Mbeki once said that there is no HIV/AIDS threat. He supposedly doesn’t have a friend or family member with HIV/AIDS.
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I ask you, if the leaders of South Africa have this sort of ignorant approach, is it really that strange that 1 out of 9 people are infected.

This issue is not quite as simple as it would appear from this.

Thabo Mbeki is not really saying AIDS doesn't exist. He is saying, that it is not caused by HIV. And there are many reasons he believes there is no connection between HIV and AIDS. It's not his idea and it doesn't come from his ignorance.

In fact the idea originated from many scientists around the world. Many od them in the US.

Some of these scientists are his consultants on the AIDS issue. This is the reason for Thabo Mbeki's believes about AIDS.

And i'm not talking about "doctors" of naturopathy here.. These scientists are real doctors, microbiologists, virologists, geneticists and others i can't remember right now. One of them is a Nobel prize winner and all of them were very respected in their community.

They have nothing to gain from their controversial views and a lot to lose.
Some of them lost all of their collegues respect because of their questioning of the official theory. Others managed to proove the flaws to others and gathered more support and caused even more scientists to research AIDS from a different point of view.


These scientists are studying the official theory and the original documents supposedly supporting the official theory and finding serious flaws in them. Often the official documents support the exact opposite conclusion, than they are supposed to.

They are also making their own experiments and tests and getting completelly different results - something that should not be happening in science.

Science works, by someone creating a theory and presenting how this theory can be verified. Then other scientists can do the same experiments and verify it. For some reason, this doesn't always work with HIV or AIDS.


I was studying this issue some years ago (2000) and was so shocked by the controversy i found, that i started writing a book on it. I wanted to objectivelly present both sides of the issue. But i stopped, because i was biased and i'm not an expert in this area, so i didn't have a way of verifying it one way or the other. In the end, i simply didn't know what to think of it anymore...

I still have huge piles of paper from back then, with thousands of documents and scientific studies on them. I had to print 8 pages on each sheet of paper, to save space.. I studied all of them, and they were very convincing.


I can't even begin listing all the problems with the official explanation here. Simpy not enough space.. I would have to start a new thread for that...

My point is just that the reason for Mbeki's views are not ignorance, but this controversy in the studies of AIDS.



BTW: I'm not claiming HIV doesn't cause AIDS. I used to believe it does and knew a lot about the orthodox explanation. Now i'm just not sure anymore..

Well despite Jacob Zuma's (or Jay-Z as we call him here) misbehaviour, I think we can all agree that he's doing a great job as president.