9/11 -200 smoking guns & 300 'coincidences'

Point 1 wasn't entirely for you though.

No actually I'm NOT contradicting myself. I said that they could get enough returns off the planes to figure out their courses before impact. They couldn't do that in real time. A primary radar set detects EVERYTHING, including birds. Without the transponder you have a blip on the screen that comes in intermittantly, you have no way to know if it's the plane you are looking for, its altitude, airspeed or anything else. However, if they take the time to look at the screen later, they can figure out the basic flight path from the time they lost the transponder. An air traffic controller CAN'T track it, but AFTER the event, when they went back and analyzed the radar data, they had enough information to be able to put together a rough course for the flights.

Originally posted by Skibum

Why yes they can. Though they don't have bottomless fuel tanks. The faster they go the more fuel they burn.

So, 45 minutes isn't enough time to fly from Cape Cod to New York, shoot the planes down (like flight 93) and return? Can someone prove to me that they couldn't have done this when the flights were in air for over an hour (if I'm mistaken in that statement, please let me know).

Also, please read the post by esdad about flight 93. My point is about the EC-100 (I think that's what it's called...not up on my types of planes). It suppossedly saw the plane hit the pentagon and saw flight 93 crash in Pennsylvania. Now, how could that plane do this, but a fighter jet can't?

Edit: Zaphod...that makes sense. How did the F-16s (going off memory, but I think it was F-16s?) track flight 93 then though? Remember that it is a proven fact that the fighters were at least in the vacinity.

[edit on 6-4-2006 by Griff]

At the time it happened, they would have had to know the planes were going to NYC, make a speed run to the city, FIND the planes, hope they weren't over the city already....

It was a C-130 belonging to an Air National Guard unit returning home, and it was flying from Andrews to Missouri IIRC. He saw flight 77 because it went right in front of him after they took off. After the plane it the Pentagon, he was continuing on his course for his home station when he saw a large plume of black smoke coming from the ground and called the air traffic controllers about it. They didn't actually SEE the impact of flight 93, just the smoke after the crash.

Fighters have a fire control radar that is designed to track planes in flight, so they can fire on them. If you get them close enough (around 100 miles s the extreme range) and they know the general area to search, then they can find and track the plane. They had a general idea of where flight 93 was based on the last known sightings by other planes, so they were able to get the F-16s close enough to find it. With Flight 11 and 175, they didn't have a small enough area to have the F-15s get close enough to be able to find them before they were over NYC, and once they're over the city you can't shoot them, or you risk a worse disaster than it was.

[edit on 4/6/2006 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
It was a C-130 belonging to an Air National Guard unit returning home, and it was flying from Andrews to Missouri IIRC. He saw flight 77 because it went right in front of him after they took off. After the plane it the Pentagon, he was continuing on his course for his home station when he saw a large plume of black smoke coming from the ground and called the air traffic controllers about it. They didn't actually SEE the impact of flight 93, just the smoke after the crash.

You make good points Zaphod. But, this doesn't jive with me. You're saying that flying from Andrews AFB to Missouri takes you close enough to Shanksville, PA to see the smoke plume? I highly doubt that. Plus, by that time, there was a no fly order from the FAA, so, why was the C-130 even in the air to begin with....remember it took off 8 minutes AFTER the no fly order.

I imagine they could have, But that wasn't what you were asking now was it.

I have already stated in another thread that no matter where the fighters were stationed, they could have gotten there in time.

I'm not positive that it WAS Missouri he was heading for. I THINK it was, but I'm not positive. But a smoke plume that you would get from a 757 with a good sized load of fuel would be seen for dozens of miles.

There was a no fly order out, but this is the one and only time it's happened. It took time, and there were slips. There were almost definately more than this plane that took off after the order was given. And it took hours to get all the planes down once they were ordered to land. Even the pilot of the 130 said he didn't know where they were going to land eventually, if they'd make it back to their home station, or if they'd have to land somewhere else.

Edit to add: Oops, it was Minnesota, not Missouri. I knew it was an "M" just got the wrong one.

[edit on 4/6/2006 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by Skibum



I imagine they could have, But that wasn't what you were asking now was it.

I have already stated in another thread that no matter where the fighters were stationed, they could have gotten there in time.

OK...you got me there. Sorry to bring over a disscussion from another thread. It tends to get confusing.

Edit: I could see a civilian private jet not getting the no fly order in time, but a millitary plane? There is so much "confusion" of that day from our own millitary that I really do not feel safe with them protecting me.

Edit2: No offense anyone in the millitary.

[edit on 6-4-2006 by Griff]

[edit on 6-4-2006 by Griff]

After reading through the 200 smoking guns and especially the section on the pentagon attack, I am lead to believe that there were only 3 planes used in the whole 911 attacks. The plane that was shot down in the field, wether it be by the "lets roll" story or a fighter pilot shooting it down with his guns, foiled the plan to hit the pentagon maybe even the capitol building.

There are accounts of the "plane" that hit the pentagon in this paper that decribe the plane as small with a capacity for 20 people. People smelled cordite (smell of explosives). People decribe hearing a missile sound. No plane remnants. You couldnt try to hit the capital with a missile either because it would be to obvious where as the pentagon could take the blow better. "They" had to hurry up and hit Washington somehow. Probably a jet fighter or somthing that would resemble an airliner a little better.

Then you would question: What about the 4 planes full of people?
Well the paper says the planes capacity averaged only 27% full. Sounds like enough people to fit into 3 planes. And didnt at least two of the planes have the same take off point and destination city.




[edit on 6-4-2006 by OctopusDr]

Both sets of planes had the same take off point, and IIRC they were going to the same place. Again, I'll ask the question that has been asked in thread after thread about no plane at the Pentagon.

Why? As easy as it was to hijack a plane that day why use a missile or smaller plane, that there's no way in hell you could disguise as a 757, and risk blowing the entire operation wide open as a gov't coverup?

Because the plane was shot down in the woods somehow. They had to attack washington still. Just an idea. I think the operation is beginning to get blown up to. This is a good paper.

If that was the case we would have seen the Pentagon hit later than all the others. They can't just pull a missile out of storage, point and shoot. It takes time to prep it and get it ready to shoot. And there aren't many small planes just sittng ready to be flown into the building.