What Are China's Military Interests? And What Will They Be?, page 2

posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:01 PM

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I really don't understand why most people view China as a war mongering nation. If they were, they would have taken the opprotunity when they had it - the collapse of the USSR.

China has more pressing issues other than war. In fact, they are in dire straits. China's future is Democracy, this cannot be denied. But they have a very hude hurdle to overcome before this goal can be achieved. You see, China's currency is pruposely being devalued by the government. Why? This insure's the investment that the west is making in inexpensive labor continues. Should the currency rise it value (which it would should the government release control of it) labor would get more expensive and China's growth would slow as businesses looked else where for a better value.

I think China is more concerned with integration into the Global Community that trying to integrate the Global Community into China. When China does become fully integrated - the world will become a better place as the NWO will for the most part be in place. Do you know what the NWO is? Democracy. If the most powerful country in the world can barely manage to instill deomcracy in third world country (U.S.A. / Iraq), how do you really expect a handful of men to take over the entire world? If you've learned anything from WWII, then you will know it will never happen.

I expect China to join the U.S., because spreading Democracy is in all honesty, a money maker.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by crisko]

k4rupt

posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:19 PM

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Crisko made some excellent points.

China's increase in spending of it's military does not mean anything in terms of preparing itself for war as many people would love to believe. Most of China's spending would be to modernize it's military.

China has shown, in the past, that they maintain good and friendly relations with other nations. Now, the U.S. on the other hand... Not so friendly.

So, lemme ask you the same question. The U.S., Japan, GB, and other natiosn have a much higher budget for their military. What are their intentions? Why do people here target China only in their constant bashings?

[edit on 8-3-2006 by k4rupt]

Daedalus3

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 06:48 AM

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Why is this in the terrorism forum?
China is not going to attack anyone..

Beachcoma

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 06:59 AM

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Originally posted by k4rupt

China has shown, in the past, that they maintain good and friendly relations with other nations.

Agreed. If it weren't for China in the 15th century people from the Malay peninsular would all be speaking Thai now. Even now in this modern day and age China has been a cordial trading partner of Malaysia, and they've never even as much as undertaken a smear campaign of our products.

Not like a certain country I could name. Criticize them and they say we lack human rights. Criticize them and they start a smear campaign on our palm oil products.

Nope, I don't see China as a threat at all.

donwhite

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:14 PM

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Originally posted by denythestatusquo[/I]
This might sound funny but I've had ideas about China attacking India. It would be most useful to China having ports in the Indian Ocean. Look how much effort and expense that Russia put to obtain such a port in that area and they never got it done. [Edited by Don W]

I don’t see a China vs. India war. I think they had some shooting in the high frontier with India and Tibet, which may have still been claiming independence then. Battalion level skirmishes. 90% of China that counts to Beijing is in the eastern half of China. I’d guess without knowing that less than 10% of China’s produce would prefer an Indian Ocean port.

The Russian Federation. 6.5 million square miles. 10 time zones. Ports? Murmansk. Archangel. Both made famous in WW2 when America sent 100s of ships into those cold and dangerous ports to sustain the USSR. 3,000 U.S. merchant seamen died in that endeavor. Kaliningrad, formerly Konigsberg, capital city of East Prussia, was retained by the USSR - now Russia - as a spoils of war. Today, one must pass through Lithuania and Belarus before arriving in Russia. Sort of like Gaza and the West Bank. It opens onto the Baltic, but as Germany learned at Jutland, it is easy to close the Baltic.

Russia’s only other major port is Vladivostok. It is some 6,000 miles westward via the Trans Siberian Railroad, to Moscow. The TS RR is now actually 4 lines connecting Moscow to Beijing, Mongolia and the newest Balkal Amur Mainline. Russia’s southern outlet is to the Black Sea, but absolutely controlled by Turkey at both the Bosporus and Dardanelles.

Russia has, since Catherine the Great, the German princess who became one of Russia’s greatest rulers, sought a warm water port open to the oceans. In 1762, in a palace coup, she becomes Empress Catherine II of all the Russians. She died in 1796. And Russia has never had a warm water port not controlled by another country. That was a prime concern to British foreign policy for 3 centuries. The Brits won.

ASIDE: China has performed 45 nuclear tests (23 atmospheric and 22 underground, all conducted at Lop Nur Nuclear Weapons Test Base, in Malan, Xinjiang). India: 6 tests. Pakistan: 6 tests. The U.S., 1,030 tests, including Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[edit on 3/9/2006 by donwhite]

ShadowXIX

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by crisko
I really don't understand why most people view China as a war mongering nation. If they were, they would have taken the opprotunity when they had it - the collapse of the USSR.

What opportunity during the collapse of the USSR ? The opportunity to get nuked off the map if they tried anything with Russia. The fall of the USSR was mainly a economic crash and had little effect on Russia's "Ace in the hole" its nuclear arsenal more then enough to lay waste to any nation.

Originally posted by k4rupt

China has shown, in the past, that they maintain good and friendly relations with other nations

I know a few people in Tibet that wouldnt exactly agree with that.

A invasion they based on a single seventh century wedding, to the Chinese Tang imperial princess
as if that over rides thousands of years of Tibetan self rule.

Now they have dropped their basis of the invasion as the marriage since it turns out the said Tibetan emperor also married the Nepalese royal princess *doh*

Now the Chinese authorities have changed their argument. Today, Beijing claims that Tibet became a part of China as a result of Mongol conquests in the thirteenth century
Just forget the fact that the Tibetan state existed for centuries before the creation of the Mongol empire and was self ruling long after it was gone.

China has also been a part of many proxy wars in recent history.

donwhite

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 02:56 PM
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[I] Originally posted by ShadowXIX[/I]

Originally posted by crisko[/I] I really don't understand why people view China as a war mongering nation. If they were, they would have taken the opportunity when they had it - the collapse of the USSR. [Edited by Don W]

[I] ShadowXIX [l] Asks: What opportunity during the collapse of the USSR ? The opportunity to get nuked off the map if they tried anything with Russia. The fall of the USSR was mainly a economic crash and had little effect on Russia's "Ace in the hole" its nuclear arsenal more then enough to lay waste to any nation.

Well, S/19 is right on the Russian nukes. Whether Russia would have resorted to nukes is problematical, in my opinion. Gorbachev was followed by Yeltsin and neither of them was a Geo W. I don’t know what China would have wanted that is Russian. A map look-see makes the area around Vladivostok the most logical. I doubt Russia would have started a nuclear war with China over that area.

Originally posted by k4rupt[/I] China has shown, in the past, that they maintain good and friendly relations with other nations.

[I] ShadowXIX: I know a few people in Tibet that wouldn’t exactly agree with that. An invasion they based on a single seventh century wedding, to the Chinese Tang imperial princess. As if that over rides thousands of years of Tibetan self rule. Now Beijing claims that Tibet became a part of China as a result of Mongol conquests in the thirteenth century. China has also been a part of many proxy wars in recent history. [Edited by Don W]

Hegemony. I believe all great powers like China, and the US, want to control - politely they say influence - all the countries contiguous to their territory. China warned the US in November of 1950 not to send “substantial” forces closer than 25 miles to the Yalu River. MacArthur ignored this warning and by December, 1950, the Chinese had sent 500,000 troops - called “volunteers” for diplomatic reasons - across the Yalu to push the US back to where it started, the 38th parallel.

China wanted a buffer zone in its far West. Security. Recall how “violently” we reacted when Cuba and the USSR were playing footsie? We are still penalizing 7 million Cubans for that fiasco. The US has a long memory of offenses to our pride.

ShadowXIX

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Please dont tell me you think the invasion of a Tibet was justified because of some marriage in 641 AD. Even China dropped that farse awhile ago.

If it wasnt then that was indeed a agressive move it was invading a independent country they had no legitmate claim at. Tibet has a history of at least 1300 years of independence from China.

Even the Chinese figures record 87,000 deaths in the National Uprising and its aftermath; Tibetan sources suggest as many as 430,000 were killed in the Uprising and subsequent years of guerrilla warfare.

Chinese destroyed over 6,000 Buddhist temples and monasteries in Tibet along with countless valuable statues, text and spiritual artifacts.

It was flat out cultural and religous genocide

Thousands of years of rich independent cultural heritage nearly wiped off the face of the earth

Chinese history records this as a "peaceful liberation".

Im not saying the US is perfect or without its mistakes but this myth of China as a purely defensive non-aggressor nation is absurd

BTW if you think Russia would allow China to invade its land and not use nuclear weapons your out of your mind. The USSR never even trusted China it made sure Mongolia as a buffer zone. The USSR was all about surviving a nuclear war with a much stronger nuclear power the US. Russia never had enough soldiers to fight China in a convential land war but it had more then enough nukes to wipe China out.

China's nuclear arsenal can't even compare to that of the US in which USSR was building its self up to withstand. The USSR and then Russia have a huge edge in a nuclear war between China and Russia.

Russia would not hesitate to sacrafice millions of Russian lives in defense of the mother land

China risking its utter destruction over a Russian land grab
it was never going to happen

[edit on 9-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

JamesinOz

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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Imo, China poses a threat to the region for a number of reasons. The Chinese govt at senior level may harbour expansionist tendencies for the wider Asian region based on some fairly deluded notions of their place in history and the world. Their proxy state North Korea is an extremely dangeorus entity to the region and the world, their senior Generals have threatened the USA with nuclear attack (totally unheard of comments of for any Western general to make), and they regularly threaten democratic Taiwan- right up to the Presidential level. In addition, they seek to build a blue water navy to achieve these expansionist tendencies. Long term I believe they could pose a threat to our region, and I'm not too keen on their fascist Communist version of government.

Domestically the Chinese government ruthlessly persecutes domocratic activists and those who wish to practise their religious beliefs in freedom. It commits systematic massive human rights abuse, imprisons hundreds of thousands of its citizens in forced labour camps and allows its industries to pollute the environment virtually unfettered.

At present the Chinese government is also actively supporting foreign governments such as that of Sudan, who are committing genocide on their own citizens. No amount of public window dressing about what nice people the Chinese government are will convince me that these people do not pose a threat to the region in the medium to long term future.

denythestatusquo

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 06:49 PM
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What about all those posts in the past on this very site where China was threatening this guy or that guy? Then there is North Korea which has to be a puppet of China and Lil' Kim was threatening everybody. Kimmie didn't stop until they starting going to China to talk to the real boss and straighten things out.

What does China want anyways? Do they want to get everything handed to them? Do they want to steal what Taiwan has or South Korea or even Japan? Not sure if anybody knows for sure what they want but they are not happy anyways and they want us to make them happy I think.

emf

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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What are you all brainwashed?

Do you all remember the first critical foreign affairs incident of the GW Bush admistration: a navy spy plane got taken by China after it collided with a Chinese jet.

Clearly the United States and China are on a collision coarse that centers in the Middle East. The United States is has encircled Iran and the US is present on China's border (Afganistan). If this Iran thing blows up do you think China will abandon Irans oil and cling to the West?

By the overt actions and alliances of China and the United States vying for alliances in Central Asia (Kazahkstan, Uzbekistan sp?, Pakistan) and China is ahead.

As for military China is vulnerable due to the Straits of Malaka and fragile energy supply but it certainly could raise a massive army that could overwhehlm the bunkers in Afganistan. Millions of troops versus 10,000 NATO allies?

Has anyone seen the recent US Quadrennial Review? I read an article off Drudge report or somewhere that the Chinese were offended by it but I haven't seen anything knew out of the US gov in the past months.

An what of the United States Taiwan policy? China last year made a law forcing war if Taiwan declared independence. Taiwan is independent and the US State Department knows it.

The real conspiracy will be what the United State does or doesn't do to defend Chinese agression. Why didn't Kerry and Bush discuss this issue openly? Do they think we are brainwashed?

Of coarse the Chinese communist party official have there motivations, like preserving their regime. What do the have to lose: they could be destroyed by their impoverished peasants or they could set impoverished peasants on the rest of the world.

ShadowXIX

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by emf

As for military China is vulnerable due to the Straits of Malaka and fragile energy supply but it certainly could raise a massive army that could overwhehlm the bunkers in Afganistan. Millions of troops versus 10,000 NATO allies?

China cant even move millions of troops 90 miles to Taiwan.

Even if they could trying to move millions of people through the tight mountain passes of eastern Afganistan with no hope of achieving air superiority. Its not like they could hide that type of build up their would be no element of suprise for them.

I would be a turkey shoot

Chinas military logistics are pretty weak and to move millions of men you need a top notch system.

k4rupt

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 08:57 PM
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I know a few people in Tibet that wouldnt exactly agree with that.

A invasion they based on a single seventh century wedding, to the Chinese Tang imperial princess
as if that over rides thousands of years of Tibetan self rule.

Now they have dropped their basis of the invasion as the marriage since it turns out the said Tibetan emperor also married the Nepalese royal princess *doh*

Now the Chinese authorities have changed their argument. Today, Beijing claims that Tibet became a part of China as a result of Mongol conquests in the thirteenth century
Just forget the fact that the Tibetan state existed for centuries before the creation of the Mongol empire and was self ruling long after it was gone.

Um... Okay? Tibet is part of China now, complaining of this is like screaming at a Calculus problem, it solves NOTHING.
You should be familiar with the spoils system. How else do you think the U.S. expanded to it's current size.

China has also been a part of many proxy wars in recent history.

And the U.S. has arrogantly started a whole bunch of needless wars in recent history. What does this say about the U.S.?

China does not pose a THREAT at all. Tibet is a domestic affair. It's like saying the U.S. is a threat to the world because of how it acquired it's lands. You do know how the U.S. expanded to it's current size, do ya? Hawaii? The whole midwest - western portions? How bout the Phillipines, the Roosevelt Corollary? Platt Amendment? Staging the Tonkin attack to start the war in Vietnam? Refusing to allow the Vietnamese to CHOOSe their own gov't? Queen Liluilokalani, what happened to her when she protested the annexation to the U.S.? What happened to the Native Americans? Don't they rightfully own the land in which the U.S. "occupies?'

Don't be so hypocritical... Please.

Pretty funny how you think China is a threat to the world because of it acquiring Tibet. You either don't know much about American history, or you enjoy ignoring the bad parts of it in an argument.

ShadowXIX

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt

Um... Okay? Tibet is part of China now, complaining of this is like screaming at a Calculus problem, it solves NOTHING.
You should be familiar with the spoils system. How else do you think the U.S. expanded to it's current size.

Did I ever say the US was perfect or without mistake? No I clearly said the opposite.

Whats so hypocritical... Is saying China has never been a aggressor its just not true.

Yours is a typical tactic shift the point to the US and off of China
and its not going to work because I cleary said the US aint no saint. During its expansion it was a aggressor to the Native American people.

Just like China was with Tibet

I dont sugar coat US history dont try to sugar coat Chinese history

[edit on 9-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

ludaChris

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 10:10 PM
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I do personally see Chinese interest in the resources that lay in Siberia(Gold, Oil). And for living space I see them going west, and south. If this is what their higher level folks are thinking about that is. I truely dont know what their motives are or what their future plans are. We can only predict. I do know that they will have interest in more living space though, especially in the next 15-20 years. Well see I guess.

k4rupt

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 10:27 PM
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Okay, now that we got that out of the way Shadow, let's discuss the topic eh?

Saying that China's military budget increase is a "threat" is basically an ignorant assumption. There are many other nations including the U.S., Japan, and GB that have a higher budget for their military than China does. So why in God's name do people single out China in their continuing bashings. China, has in the past, shown examples of a PEACEFUL rise in power. You can argue this all you want, but China is being a lot more peaceful as they rise in power than MOST other nations have been in past history. Please, give an example of a nation that has risen to the rank of world superpower as peaceful as China has.

[edit on 9-3-2006 by k4rupt]

ludaChris

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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Japan has been given the blessing of the US to take they military beyond a self defense force. Meaning that they will now start gearing toward having more offensive ability, and force projection. This is most definately geared towards the Chinese. And with Japans nearly 5 trillion GDP, they could definately up their military spending into the hundreds of billions. Think of Japan with an army much like they had in WW2 as an ally of America in the future, that could be an amazing force. The Chinese of course will respond, I dont blame them one bit. This is purely hypothetical of course, but it would be very good for the US in terms of this growing rivalry we are now seeing.

donwhite

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by ludaChris[/I]
I see Chinese interest in the resources that lay in Siberian gold and oil. And for living space I see them going west, and south. I don’t know their motives or their future plans. We can only predict. I do know they will have an interest in more living space, especially in the next 15-20 years. Well see I guess. [Edited by Don W]

Look at these numbers. People per square mile. China, 380. India, 864. Indonesia, 349. Nigeria, 364. On the other hand, for real CLOSENESS, try Taiwan, 1,863. Not “tight” enough? Look at Bangladesh, 2,637!!

Vietnam lies south of China. No love lost there. Thailand? At least China would shut down the Golden Triangle! To the west, the Himalayas. Not easy to cross. No, IudaChris, I think China will stay in its historical boundaries.

ludaChris

posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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I found this article, and its quite interesting as to how the future of China and the region can unfold. And all of the factors that have an impact on that future. Its only 8 pages in .pdf format. A good read.

Coordinating US and Japanese Responses to Chinese Military Modernization

donwhite

posted on Mar, 10 2006 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by ludaChris
I found this article how the future of China and the region can unfold. And the factors that have an impact on that future. Its only 8 pages in .pdf format. A good read. Coordinating US and Japanese Responses to Chinese Military Modernization [Edited by Don W]

Bravo! I printed it out for ready reference. Thx, IudaChris. NOTE: the Headline is a quote from an old Pall Mall ad.