Defend Bush here.A message to all.

We all know these unforgettable and unfortunate occurances during the first 5years of the new millenium.

then new "communists" as i call them

Iran,Syria,N.Korea,venezuela and Iran.

unfortunate problems:
Katrina
Cheney and the rifle"it was a mistake"
wheres osama?
Iraq
13,000 of our soldiers gone
further instability in the middle east

As time goes by.Mr bush and his associates cause more problems and the list of countries above as "threats" increases.We all saw it coming.
I dont blame the great nation of the U.S who has done somuch for the world.I blame those who give its badside.

I dare republican,democrats and those alike to defend bushs actions because i was one staunch republican and to this day i wonder what an idiot i was to be for him.Im asking all republicans,now,in above top secret,to defend Bushes actions.I am willin to listen/read and give my opinion.

This is a great chance to debate it all out.

Originally posted by blackSt33L
Katrina

The fall outs that resorted in Katrina becoming such a disaster span much further than simply Bush. There were federal blunders, local blunders, and about every type of blunder you can imagine. We, as a country, were apparently not prepared for such a hurricane. You can't count this as solely a "Bush disaster" when there was so much more involved.

Cheney and the rifle"it was a mistake"

It was a mistake. There's nothing to show that it wasn't. His friend is still alive. If it wasn't a mistake, don't you think his friend would speak up? Do you really think that Cheney would resort to an "Accidental hunting accident" if he wanted someone dead? This is simply you wanting to believe that the Bush adminstration is evil.

wheres osama?

You tell me. Although we haven't captured Osama yet, we've crippled his organization and taken away a great amount of his power. I do agree that it would be great to capture him, but it would only serve to make us feel better and to exact vengence on him. I think that we should continue searching for Osama, but it doesn't need to be our main focus (Although maybe one of them.) We caught Saddam, why don't you talk about that?

Iraq

That's far too broad. Can you elaborate?

13,000 of our soldiers gone

Where are you getting your numbers? How do you know that they're reliable? Is it some iraqibodycount.net site created by people who aren't on the battlefield, but have merely received their statistics from some other organization who received them from some other unreliable organization who received them, totally watered down, from someone else? You don't know that it's 13,000.

further instability in the middle east

Just because there is fighting at the moment does not mean that Bush has "Caused the middle east to become far more unstable." My God, if everyone followed your logic, nothing would ever get done because at some point in time you're going to need to shake things up in order to let them settle in the right position. What about all of the other wars we've fought. Should we have never fought them because for a period of time, things were unstable? I guess we should have just let Hitler take over, because who wants to make waves?

Cheney and the rifle"it was a mistake"

It wasn't a rifle. It was a shotgun.

I figured I'd just say hello, too, since I support a lot of the actions of the Bush Administration, too, and wanted to have the opportunity to feed the troll

EDIT: you claim to be a staunch republican but have since seen the light. What was it about Bush that you liked, and was was it about the Republican party that caused you to be such a staunch follower?

[edit on 2/22/06/22 by junglejake]

Herman:
The fall outs that resorted in Katrina becoming such a disaster span much further than simply Bush. There were federal blunders, local blunders, and about every type of blunder you can imagine. We, as a country, were apparently not prepared for such a hurricane. You can't count this as solely a "Bush disaster" when there was so much more involved

You know i remember a mass flood that occured in Mozembique(excuse speling) afew years ago.The South African and mozem government responded very quickly withing 2days to that disaster.And even though many still died.The fact of that response made it success.You explain to me how the U.S,i need say no more,took twice as long,probably more to respond.Its was a "Bush disaster" because the minute you take that seat into the white house,you assume a great responsibility.And that including emergency response.I dont know why but people get this idea that being a president jus involves a man walking around in a suit flying to countries and shaking hands.Its hard to assume such a power,but its still your responisbility.But who knows,maby Bush was tied up on sorting the other problems he caused that he couldnt fix a problem that for once he didnt cause."We as a country"was not prepared for such a blunder?yet we`r prepared to invade,send army troops abroad,and spy on our own people?we`r not prepared for such a disaster yet the power of the U.S outweight many other countries?We have billions and we`r not prepared?We can spend 73billion dollars on war and we`r not prepared to fix disaster?I could go on.

Herman:
It was a mistake. There's nothing to show that it wasn't. His friend is still alive. If it wasn't a mistake, don't you think his friend would speak up? Do you really think that Cheney would resort to an "Accidental hunting accident" if he wanted someone dead? This is simply you wanting to believe that the Bush adminstration is evil.

Ok.Whether or not it was a mistake,how is somebody able to make such a mistake like that?Iv gone hunting and iv done paintball games and other weapon asimulated games during my leisure time and not once have i mistakened a person for something else.Its pritty much that obvious.The deal with me posting that is the fact that its not really about the mistake cheney made,its about his careless ways.Its apparent that mans work ethic reflects his general personality.When you go out to hunting or weapon related games and you know these weapons can be pritty fatal,you take extra procautions or else you just dont go.This is not some "mistake",its an act of carelessness and this reflects his work ethic.

Herman:
You tell me. Although we haven't captured Osama yet, we've crippled his organization and taken away a great amount of his power. I do agree that it would be great to capture him, but it would only serve to make us feel better and to exact vengence on him. I think that we should continue searching for Osama, but it doesn't need to be our main focus (Although maybe one of them.) We caught Saddam, why don't you talk about that?

The taliban is not crippled,it is still verymuch alive and everyday they are developing new soldiers because many outside of america are just getting fed up.Dont believe everything they shon the news herman,there is plenty happenign in afghanistan,they just dont show it that much anymore.Oh yes,there is a military build up in afghanistan,and i can tell you all now that on the news they will say their stepping up to hunt down Osama and balance democracy,but in reality they are preparing for a further invasion into Iran.I know the danger of Iran and its nukes,but this should be a global effort,not the US and Britain,australia taking it into their own hands.

Herman:
Where are you getting your numbers? How do you know that they're reliable? Is it some iraqibodycount.net site created by people who aren't on the battlefield, but have merely received their statistics from some other organization who received them from some other unreliable organization who received them, totally watered down, from someone else? You don't know that it's 13,000.

Now this question I got excited about.There was a small little census done in Iraq that accounted for 13,000 soldiers who died in Iraq.And yes this was reported on the news particularly on CBS but I found my source on "Janes defense weekly" because i dont believe everything on the news.Their are afew other sources that will acount for this count such as time,the dominion and afew other news sources.Yes Herman its 13,000 soldiers,abit more than that actually.Iraq bodycount?havnt been to that site.Janes weekly is probably the most honest site there is,and you can ask and theorist/military personal and lecturers and the majority of them will back "janes weekly" up.Still wondering how my sources are reliable,im pritty sure of it because its respected,hows your sources backed up?even if it was really less,2,000,5,000,this whole war was a damn waste.Its not just about the numbers.Its families Herman.Kids.American patriots.Future leaders.Hard working people.I understand that they are in the army for war,but not a war of waste.Thats what gets to me Herman.Those freaking kids in the army.

We all know that this could of been doubt in a better fashion.We all know this.

Herman:
Just because there is fighting at the moment does not mean that Bush has "Caused the middle east to become far more unstable." My God, if everyone followed your logic, nothing would ever get done because at some point in time you're going to need to shake things up in order to let them settle in the right position. What about all of the other wars we've fought. Should we have never fought them because for a period of time, things were unstable? I guess we should have just let Hitler take over, because who wants to make waves?

There were wars in the middle east before this Herman.I know and many others know.But the fact of the matter is that the middle east was at a vulnerable point.To bring another major war would just tip the scale.Bush and his administration were well aware of that.Yet he still decided to go in.And it did make it more unstable.I understand saddam was to be doubt with.But at a global scale.He completely made a fool out of the UN and showed americas mis-use of its powers.Now you justify that.I may sound like another complainer,but everyday more and more people are getting fed up.And its growing,And pritty soon you`ll see other republicans changing their minds.Answer this:why deal with saddam when there are other dictators with possible weapons of mass distruction.The Iran threat was known along time ago,they were more obvious that Iraq was,but for some reason,the administration accidently missed that fact.Need we not forget,no weapons of mass distruction was found.WW2 was an obvious reason to go for war,and this wasnt just an american war,many other nation contributed.At that time the US worked with other nations to sort out this matter.And it was a pritty obvious matter Herman.It was at a global scale.Country by country.And it was for a meaningful cause.Dont tell me and afew others that the Iraq war was just asmuch of a worthy cause as ww2 because i garentee many will be offended.
Too abroad you say?I think its pritty obvious what I mean.
If everyone followed my logic?well yea agree on you with that.If everyone followed my logic,what a boring world this would be.Right?

Im not against you as a member Herman.I really hope you know this.I respect you for standing by you beliefs.Thats why i made this thread.So that i may discuss this issue and what the means to other members.I enjoy debating.And because of my feelings towards whats happening in the US,I thought it would be great to get the otherside to defend for once.In this way we all get to have our say.Thats the beauty of above top secret.

[edit on 22-2-2006 by blackSt33L]

[edit on 22-2-2006 by blackSt33L]

Originally posted by blackSt33L

You know i remember a mass flood that occured in Mozembique(excuse speling) afew years ago.The South African and mozem government responded very quickly withing 2days to that disaster.And even though many still died.The fact of that response made it success

That's right, twice as many as two days would be four days. The Bush administration, if you look at this timeline, didn't even take two days to respond after the hurricane hit. Although they were warned about it, they reacted soon after the flooding.

www.thinkprogress.org...

Bear in mind that that timeline and article aren't in any way partial to Bush. Are you aware that there were American Red Cross workers outside of the superdome with food, drink, blankets, etc., and the state wouldn't let them help? Although I'm one of the first to admit that this was partially Bushes problem, as he is the president, it's not where near entirely his. It can't be classified as a "Bush disaster" because, as I said, there was failure on a larger scale than "Bush screwed up and we got flooded." I don't know how old you are, or if you've ever been to high school or college or anything, but the president doesn't have as much power as you seem to think. He's not a king or a monarch - he's part of a 3 branch system of checks and balances.

"We as a country"was not prepared for such a blunder?yet we`r prepared to invade,send army troops abroad,and spy on our own people?we`r not prepared for such a disaster yet the power of the U.S outweight many other countries?We have billions and we`r not prepared?We can spend 73billion dollars on war and we`r not prepared to fix disaster?I could go on.

As powerful as we are, our government was not expecting things of this calibur. They also can't just wave a magic wand and make it all go away. Even with all of our power, it would still be a painful and slow recovery. Homes will be destroyed, lives will be lost, and bad things will happen. Our government did what they could do.

Ok.Whether or not it was a mistake,how is somebody able to make such a mistake like that?Iv gone hunting and iv done paintball games and other weapon asimulated games during my leisure time and not once have i mistakened a person for something else.

Have you ever been bird hunting, using bird shots, and had a partner who wasn't following proper hunting protocol?

Its pritty much that obvious.The deal with me posting that is the fact that its not really about the mistake cheney made,its about his careless ways.Its apparent that mans work ethic reflects his general personality.When you go out to hunting or weapon related games and you know these weapons can be pritty fatal,you take extra procautions or else you just dont go.This is not some "mistake",its an act of carelessness and this reflects his work ethic.

Before, you were acting like it wasn't a mistake. You seem to make a habit of changing your positions. Still, if you feel his carelessness reflects his work ethic as the VP (Maybe you could look at his career history, and see how that reflects his work ethic), there's nothing I can do to change that. You have your views; I have mine.

The taliban is not crippled,it is still verymuch alive and everyday they are developing new soldiers because many outside of america are just getting fed up.Dont believe everything they shon the news herman,there is plenty happenign in afghanistan,they just dont show it that much anymore.Oh yes,there is a military build up in afghanistan,and i can tell you all now that on the news they will say their stepping up to hunt down Osama and balance democracy,but in reality they are preparing for a further invasion into Iran.I know the danger of Iran and its nukes,but this should be a global effort,not the US and Britain,australia taking it into their own hands.

And how do you know these things. Where are you getting YOUR info? We overthrew the hold that the taliban had on Afghanistan, and forced Bin Laden (Who is now old, with a liver problem, and reportedly not walking right) to retire to the caves of God knows where. We have crippled their organization (When's the last time you heard of a large scale Taliban operation after we went in?) It would be useless to be using all of our troops to search for Bin Laden. I think we'll find him eventually, but it's not a huge crisis at the moment.

Now this question I got excited about.There was a small little census done in Iraq that accounted for 13,000 soldiers who died in Iraq.And yes this was reported on the news particularly on CBS but I found my source on "Janes defense weekly" because i dont believe everything on the news.Their are afew other sources that will acount for this count such as time,the dominion and afew other news sources.Yes Herman its 13,000 soldiers,abit more than that actually.Iraq bodycount?havnt been to that site.Janes weekly is probably the most honest site there is,and you can ask and theorist/military personal and lecturers and the majority of them will back "janes weekly" up.Still wondering how my sources are reliable,im pritty sure of it because its respected,hows your sources backed up?even if it was really less,2,000,5,000,this whole war was a damn waste.Its not just about the numbers.Its families Herman.Kids.American patriots.Future leaders.Hard working people.I understand that they are in the army for war,but not a war of waste.Thats what gets to me Herman.Those freaking kids in the army.

We all know that this could of been doubt in a better fashion.We all know this.

What I meant, in a nut shell, was: Do you have a link to a credible source reporting this?

There were wars in the middle east before this Herman.I know and many others know.But the fact of the matter is that the middle east was at a vulnerable point.To bring another major war would just tip the scale.Bush and his administration were well aware of that.Yet he still decided to go in.And it did make it more unstable.I understand saddam was to be doubt with.But at a global scale.He completely made a fool out of the UN and showed americas mis-use of its powers.Now you justify that.I may sound like another complainer,but everyday more and more people are getting fed up.And its growing,And pritty soon you`ll see other republicans changing their minds.Answer this:why deal with saddam when there are other dictators with possible weapons of mass distruction.The Iran threat was known along time ago,they were more obvious that Iraq was,but for some reason,the administration accidently missed that fact.Need we not forget,no weapons of mass distruction was found.WW2 was an obvious reason to go for war,and this wasnt just an american war,many other nation contributed.At that time the US worked with other nations to sort out this matter.And it was a pritty obvious matter Herman.It was at a global scale.Country by country.And it was for a meaningful cause.Dont tell me and afew others that the Iraq war was just asmuch of a worthy cause as ww2 because i garentee many will be offended.
Too abroad you say?I think its pritty obvious what I mean.
If everyone followed my logic?well yea agree on you with that.If everyone followed my logic,what a boring world this would be.Right?

It's too early to say that Bush has caused a disaster to ensue in the middle east. The area has always been disastrous. There would be an uprising when we went in - that's just the way it is. I wouldn't say it "Tipped the scale", although it maybe have jostled it. The point is that in the end a greater balance will come. We couldn't just not do anything at all. The old "head in the sand" game never really worked well for me.

Im not against you as a member Herman.I really hope you know this.I respect you for standing by you beliefs.Thats why i made this thread.So that i may discuss this issue and what the means to other members.I enjoy debating.And because of my feelings towards whats happening in the US,I thought it would be great to get the otherside to defend for once.In this way we all get to have our say.Thats the beauty of above top secret.

Ditto.

Originally posted by blackSt33L
You explain to me how the U.S,i need say no more,took twice as
long,probably more to respond.

Because Mayor Nagin is a corrupt and incompetent racist.
Because the Gov. of Louisiana also didn't know what she
was doing. They were in charge ... they blew it.

Its was a "Bush disaster" because the minute you
take that seat into the white house,you assume a great
responsibility

Wrong. You assume great responsibility ... but you aren't
responsible for everything - especially the poor jobs of those
elected officials at the local and state levels.

how is somebody able to make such a mistake like that?

Hunting accidents happen all the time.

its an act of carelessness and this reflects his work ethic.

Exactly how? He is a highly successful businessman and he is
highly successful in politics. Exactly how does the hunting accident
reflect his being careless in business and politics. Obviously it
doesn't. If it did, he wouldn't be where he is now.

The taliban is not crippled,

Of course it is. If it weren't then they'd be in charge.
They aren't. If they were, then girls wouldn't be
going to school, and they are. In fact, I'd go even
further than 'crippled' and say they are practically
driven from the land and/or wiped out.

this whole war was a damn waste.

The Iraqis who just freely voted for the first time in ~ 40 years
disagree with you. Also, the UN security council has been shown
for what it is ... corrupt, taking massive billions of $$ in bribes to
vote certain ways. The Iraqis are now getting their Oil for Food
$$$ that Saddam had been stealing. The Iraqis are no longer
being mass murdered by the hundreds of thousands, or mass
raped either. The illegal oil pipeline to Syria and Jordan has
been cut off. Damn waste of time? Nope.

Those freaking kids in the army.

Nope. Adults who volunteered. ADULTS.

He completely made a fool out of the UN

The UN made a fool out of itself. Their corruption became
seen for all. The SEcurity Council was bought .... they were
going to let hundreds of thousands of Iraqis continue to die
under Saddam, just so they could get their illegal billions.

showed americas mis-use of its powers.

Protecting America isn't a misuse of powers.
Saving Iraqis from genocide isn't a misuse of powers.
Mis-Use of power would have been to stand by and
allow it to go on .. not caring, like the UN.

[edit on 2/23/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by blackSt33L
"Janes defense weekly"

I just googled up Janes Defense Weekly. It's the
first time I have seen this site. I didn't see anywhere
a 13,000 dead American's figure. Please provide
a link. Thank you.