If America is free, then why this?

If America is really a democracy, then I challenge someone to explain this....


















Fascist Dictator Benito Mussolini's Italian flag during WW2



The Fascist symbol on the Seal of the US Senate?

That symbol represents classic fascism. The rods represent individuality and freedom, tied together, ruled by a central point, the axe-head.

Why is the Fascist symbol, the fasces, the very symbol from which the word fascism comes from, why is it sitting in the behind the Presidential Podium in Congress? The land, they say, of ''Freedom''?

Fascism:Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. - Encyclopedia Britannica (2005).

Sounds like the conditions of America today isnt it?

Democracy: Form of government in which supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodic free elections. - Encyclopedia Britannica (2005)

This form of government no longer exist in America. Just look at the last two presidential ''elections''. We no longer have the power, anyone who thinks different is blind.

We dont live in a democracy, we live in fascism of the worst kind....one that gives the illusion of freedom.



Again, we have the Fascist symbol on the State seal of Colorado....but also, the Illuminati symbol...(pyramid with the all-seeing eye). Why?



Illuminati symbol on the US dollar bill. Below it, it says in Latin ''Novus Ordo Seclorum'' New Order of the Ages....New World Order.





Illuminati symbol on Fidelity Investment Co.



Again, the CBS logo is the All-Seeing Eye of the Illuminati.




The big oil company, SHELL, has a cleverly hidden sun symbol.



The NBC symbol, again, is a very cleverly hidden sun symbol.



The Day Inn Motel system has a rising sun symbol....

The Illuminati symbols are everywhere! There are so much of them, I cant put them all here.

Here is a good site for the Illuminati symbols around us.

www.davidicke.net...

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

www.whale.to...



If the Illuminati doesnt exist, then why are so many of their symbols around us?





[edit on 31-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

America is not completly free and America is not a democracy.

The problem is that democracy is not freedom. Democracy is simply majoritarianism, which is inherently incompatible with real freedom. Our founding fathers clearly understood this, as evidenced not only by our republican constitutional system, but also by their writings in the Federalist Papers and elsewhere. James Madison cautioned that under a democratic government, “There is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.” John Adams argued that democracies merely grant revocable rights to citizens depending on the whims of the masses, while a republic exists to secure and protect pre-existing rights. Yet how many Americans know that the word “democracy” is found neither in the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence, our very founding documents?

www.lewrockwell.com...

See also this.
en.wikipedia.org...

My point exactly. America is not even a democracy. In the ''land of the free, home of the brave'', we have a Fascist State. Or at least the development of one.

[edit on 31-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
America is not completly free and America is not a democracy.

The problem is that democracy is not freedom. Democracy is simply majoritarianism, which is inherently incompatible with real freedom. Our founding fathers clearly understood this, as evidenced not only by our republican constitutional system, but also by their writings in the Federalist Papers and elsewhere. James Madison cautioned that under a democratic government, “There is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.” John Adams argued that democracies merely grant revocable rights to citizens depending on the whims of the masses, while a republic exists to secure and protect pre-existing rights. Yet how many Americans know that the word “democracy” is found neither in the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence, our very founding documents?

Well said.

Regarding the Roman Fasces,

"The symbolism of the fasces at one level suggested STRENGTH through UNITY.
The rods symbolized the state's power to punish delinquents. The axe
represented the ultimate power of high justice to execute (decapitate)..."

source:
en.wikipedia.org...

"On early American coins and other symbols, it symbolizes the unity of the colonies-
a single stick may be broken, but a number of sticks bound together cannot be."

source:
altreligion.about.com...


(offered as an aside): "Bello vel Pace Paratus"

"The American bald Eagle holding in his right talon an Olive branch,
and in his left a bundle of thirteen arrows... "

(In heraldry, the right side is superior to the left side.)

source:
www.greatseal.com...

Mod Edit: Fixed Quote Tag.

[edit on 31/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Regarding the different logos, just because they may represent an eye or a sun does not mean they are illuminati symbols. There are other meanings for these symbols as well. I don't know what the intended meaning for the CBS eye was, for example, but I can think of several very legitimate reasons for it being an eye.

• Keeping the public's eyes open to important events.
• Television is a visual medium.

Just because someone's logo contains a similar element as an illuminati symbol does not mean they're related in any way.

Regarding the fasces, if you read the Wikipedia article on them, you would see it says the following:

The fasces lictoriae ("bundles of the lictors") (in Italian, fascio littorio) symbolised power and authority (imperium) in ancient Rome. A corps of apparitores (subordinate officials) called lictors each carried fasces as a sort of staff of office before a magistrate, in a number corresponding to his rank, in public ceremonies and inspections, and bearers of fasces preceded praetors, propraetors, consuls, proconsuls, Masters of the Horse, dictators, and caesars.

While the term 'fascism' descended from 'fasces', the fasces lictoriae are only a symbol of authority. Not that I'm saying this government is not becoming totalitarian over time, but there are many other more legitimate bits of evidence to show this than this symbol

Originally posted by LetKnowledgeDrop


Again, the CBS logo is the All-Seeing Eye of the Illuminati.
. . . .
The big oil company, SHELL, has a cleverly hidden sun symbol.
. . . .
The NBC symbol, again, is a very cleverly hidden sun symbol.
. . .

The Day Inn Motel system has a rising sun symbol....

The Illuminati symbols are everywhere! There are so much of them, I cant put them all here.

[edit on 31-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

Now, are you saying that any symbol of a sunrise is Illuminati? Every Eye symbol? Every Triangle????

So, If I am a well-meaning owner of a doughnut shop, I'd better not have a sunrise symbol anywhere in my logo, or else I'm in danger of having you accuse me of belonging to the illuminati?

And If I'm an optometrist, and I have an "eye" on my logo or billboard, then you're going to start telling people I'm part of the one-world-order???

Tell me this: How can people please you? How can they advertize their businesses without being accused of illuminism?

If there is such a wide variety of symbols . . . practically anything, a shell, a peacock, an eye, a triangle . . . . then no matter what I choose to represent my company, you're gonna call me a secret agent of the lizards.

Seriously, could YOU design a logo for a doughnut shop that you will certify is totally illuminati-logo free?

If anything is open season, why not the cross? I mean, the long stem is pointing downward, isn't it? Isn't that satanic?

traditionally,
the eye repersents knowledge, thats why an illuminated brotherhood would adopt it,
the faces repersents strength in unison, which is why a brotherhood would adopt it,
the sun repersents illumination, i won't explain that link,
the triangle is a repersentation of equality and perfection, as is the square, a socity of perfect equals would naturally adopt a pyramid,if they felt they were enlightened souls they might add an eye to the top.

the all seeing eye means perfect equality ruled by enlightenment, good symbol for both a new democratic state and an enlightened brotherhood, perhaps these symbols are choosen for their meanings to the people choosing them and not according to the meanings attached to them 200 years later, just a thought.

also, perhaps a shell repersents the base material for oil,
maybe a peacock is used to styalise the spectrum, a popular 70's theme, the logo wasn't first used in the late 70's early 80's was it?
could the half sun perhaps repersent sundown, the time when you need a motel, or could it repersent days, as in ''days inn''.

as for american dictatorship and free electíons, what was the turnout for the last presidential election? what was the persentage of congressmen that read bills before voting? how come elections only ever have two sides in the states, republican or democrate, which seem to be two sides of the same coin?

governments will always try to assert their point of view on socity to as great an extent as is possible, thats their job, if you want more freedom, vote for someone offering it and pray enough other people feel the same, think how the rest of us feel, we don't get a say but we still have to put up with him.

the symbol comes from the iroquoi nation. the phrase: "one arrow may be broken, but six together cannot" gave rise to their logo of an eagle holding 6 bound arrows.

if there wasn't that connection, i'd be scared

[edit on 31-1-2006 by madnessinmysoul]

Although I do beleive that many in our government currently and in the past have been associated with secret societies, I am going to go out on a limb and declare that I do not beleive this nation to be fascist.
First of all: True we aren't a democracy, we never have been.
We are a democratic republic, we elect those to express opinions for us.
Lets be honest, total democracy would be chaos, nothing would get accomplished and it simply undermine the power of the state whose job it is to defend the people. (Pelloponesian wars for a historical example. Greece[Athens] was a total democracy, they spent too much time in committee and got their arses handed to them on many occasions by more fascist Sparta)
As far as all the symbolism, I think alot of it is merely coincidence. Although some of the bigger corporations may be run by Illuminists or others.
TO be frank I think the only people who truly hate the countries current direction are liberals while almost all conservatives and even quite a few moderate dems like Joe Leiberman support it wholeheartedly.
I tend to be a conservative but the older I get the more guarded I am with my political opinions.
Beign honest again, you can hate this country and its decisions. Thats you're opinion which you're entitled to, and hell you might even be right.
But remember that 51% of this nation voted for the Pres in the last election. The Conservatives have a mandate now and their base wants to see it pressed vigourosly (ok, I think I butchered that last word)

America seems to be a repeat of Ancient Rome.

One thing that destroyed Rome was multiculturalism. People did not assimilate. So much for "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I would say America is on the decline.

You realize that there is no facsist symbol on the US Seal, or the Colorado Seal ( I live in Colorado), dont you?

The Roman Fasces is used in one form or another by dozens of Western Nations.The Norwegian, Swedish, Dutch, French to name a few all use it. Its a Roman symbol power and jurisdiction.

Why do all these countries use Roman symbols? I dont know maybe because Rome and Greece are the birth place of Democracy

I think the reason so many nations use Roman sysmbols is because Rome is the state all states wish to emulate.
In my mind they were the greatest Empire in human history and will never be surpassed.

Rome had massive influence on pretty much all western nations today. It goes way beyond them just having a powerful empire Theater, cinema, TV , Architecture, Advertising, Goverment, Medicine, Sports So many different things. It's all around us - you can't escape those Romans and their influence on our world!

The Roman experience (both the good and the bad) continues to affect us today

Originally posted by LetKnowledgeDrop
If America is really a democracy, then I challenge someone to explain this....

From dictionary.com:

Fascism:

--A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
--A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
--Oppressive, dictatorial control.

If you believe you are living under a fascist government; you are free to leave!!

Seriously; I wouldn't live in a country I truly believed was Fascist. Why are you?

Absolutely bizzare!! You need to go back to school and learn something--

Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless I'm missing something obvious, the United States used those symbols way before Mussolini came along. The United States had been around for over 150 years by the time Il Duce appeared on the political scene.

So I guess I have to ask, how long has the United States been using those symbols? If they predate the Mussolini fascist regime, that's one thing. If they deliberately chose those symbols after Mussolini's reign, that's quite different.

The symbol itself, (fasces) like the swastika, did not orignally have the same meanings they have today. (fascist) Nonetheless, we don't see countries sporting swastikas any longer.

Interesting is this read from wikipedia, where they mention that the fasces "remain in widespread international use" to this day. Wiki: fasces My guess is that the US used this symbol before the fascists ever came along. (You'd think they would have changed it, though, with all the negative symbolism that has become attached to it...)

reply to post by LetKnowledgeDrop


The first mistake you make is by refering to America as a Democracy. Never in its early history was it ever refered to as such until around the 1930s. THe Founding fathers dispised Democracies. Refer to the articles of federation to get an idea of their displeasure in that form of governance.

So to clarify, the USA is a Democratic Republic. Big diference. So we vote in representatives that are to represent us in Government. WHos only responsibil;ity is to uphold our liberties and provide the defense of the country.

Another mistake that you seem to be making is this notion of complete freedom. There is no such thing. Ill explain: If you have complete freedom to do as you will then you will interfere with my freedom so now i am not free to do as i will. Another is the notion that Governments give freedom. That is another nisconcept lost from the Constitution. No one grants freedoms except God himself. That way no one can take them away not even Government. Governments only purpuse is to insure that others do not intervere with my god given rights which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That way you cant interfere in my freedoms and i cant interfere in yours we are both free to pursue those God given rights.

What this country really needs is a returning to the founding prinicples in the contitution. That Government can do nothing except provide for the defence and insure your liberty. Anything beyond is UnConsitutional!!!! that was the way it was intended.