One in the eye for intelligent design, page 1

Originally posted by Darkmind
The latest blow against people who believe in intelligent design - scientists have worked out how bees fly, something that is apparently supposed to be aerodynamically impossible without help from the beardie weirdie above (and presumably requires teeny tiny invisible string). Here's the link: www.livescience.com...

The veracity of livesciences knowledge of the ID community notwithstanding, I am unfamiliar with the ID argument that says bees flying is aerodynamically impossible, and I'm pretty familiar with most of the stuff.

I am familiar with the ID arguments that describe bees as being extraoridinarily designed flying machines that include a compass, gyroscopes, and other biological machines that have their engineered counterparts in human flight machines.

You could also be referring to the fact that initial studies in bees demonstrated that they were not able to generate sufficient lift to carry their weight. That those studies were flawed, is plainly obvious to anyone who's ever seen a bee fly. Subsequent studies seem to reveal that adequate lift is generated by vortex forces created by the wing. But none is this argues against ID per se.

I know that it's fashionable to somehow try to falsify ID via any biological discovery; and I further feel the pressure from within the industry to do this, but misrepresentation of IDT really does nothing to refute it. Then when someone actually looks into it for themselves, and realizes that no authority within the ID community has ever stated that bee flight is aerodynamically impossible. Furthermore, if someone in the ID community did say "We don't even understand how bees fly?" So what? Perhaps at the time we didn't understand how bees fly. Based on what you've posted it seems the statement was true.

Because I've supported ID on the record, and since I am now willing to say: we don't even understand how the singularity that resulted in the Big Bang came to be, doesn't mean that if and when we do discover this, ID is somehow falsified.

This most recent 'refutation' of IDT is nothing of the sort.

To summarize: No IDTist of any prominence has ever stated "Bee flight is aerodynamically impossible," and If someone in the ID community ever did state "We don't even know how bees fly," based on this post, it seems that they were correct. Apparently we DIDN'T know how bees fly. Without being able to analyze the quote and surrounding text, it's impossible to say what the context of this quote was.