Al-Qahira: Jerusalem not sacred to Islam

A columnist for an Egyptian government journal has called into question the established Muslim belief that Jerusalem is a sacred Islamic city.

Writing for the weekly Al-Qahira, published by the Egyptian Ministry of Culture, Ahmad Muhammad 'Arafa rejects the Islamic doctrine that the Prophet Muhammad's celebrated "Night Journey" took him from Mecca to Jerusalem.

MEMRI said the column constitutes a "dramatic departure" from a standard Islamic belief held for more than 1,300 years.

"The fact that this article was published in a government journal adds to its political significance," the Washington, D.C.-based group noted.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

I don't see this making any difference to anyone from a traditional point of view, but it's interesting that an article like this makes a government paper in Egypt.

Actually, never mind. :p

delete!

[Edited on 5-9-2003 by lunachick]

It's not the first thime this has been suggested, that prophet Mohammed didn't go to Jerusalem, but somewhere else, even out of this world on his so called night journey. Jerusalem isn't mentioned, but it has been interpreted to meaning this city, because of a certain mosq or something. Anyway this mosq wasn't built in the time of Mohammed, so it's possible that this revelation speeks of something else. It would be cool if some Muslims commented on this one, so we could hear more about what's the deal.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by Mycroft
MEMRI said the column constitutes a "dramatic departure" from a standard Islamic belief held for more than 1,300 years.

Infact when the UN established Israel in one day back in 1947, the Muslim (gentile) mosq on mount Zion had been standing in the outer courtyard for 1260 years. Sounds familiar?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Ok, here is a Muslim point of view

it all starts here:

" Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant (Muhammad) during the night, from the Sacred Masjid (of Mecca) to the farthest place of prostration, whose surroundings we have blessed, in order to show him some of our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer. " Qur'an, Sura 17, verse 1

It does not explicitly say where the farthest place of prostration is. Muhammad himself didnt leave any record of this journey, but many of his companions have written about this event, each with his own explanation of this.

A lot of scholars would agree that it is indeed Jerusalem. If you are familiar with Islam, you will know that Muslims dont see themselves as a separate new religion, they see Islam as marely a continuation of the previous monotheistic religions which started with Abraham. In Islam, Kaaba, the holiest place, is the place of first temple built by Abraham. So many think that the most distant place is the Temple of Solomon. One more reason to believe that is the part of the verse which says " whose surroundings we have blessed". Quran has a complete story of Jews as "blessed people" who have been chosen by God to be freed from slavery. They are reffered throughout the Quran as blessed.

I forgot to add an interesting link:

www.noblesanctuary.com...

Originally posted by paperclip
Ok, here is a Muslim point of view

it all starts here:

" Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant (Muhammad) during the night, from the Sacred Masjid (of Mecca) to the farthest place of prostration, whose surroundings we have blessed, in order to show him some of our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer. " Qur'an, Sura 17, verse 1

It does not explicitly say where the farthest place of prostration is. Muhammad himself didnt leave any record of this journey, but many of his companions have written about this event, each with his own explanation of this.

A lot of scholars would agree that it is indeed Jerusalem. If you are familiar with Islam, you will know that Muslims dont see themselves as a separate new religion, they see Islam as marely a continuation of the previous monotheistic religions which started with Abraham. In Islam, Kaaba, the holiest place, is the place of first temple built by Abraham. So many think that the most distant place is the Temple of Solomon. One more reason to believe that is the part of the verse which says " whose surroundings we have blessed". Quran has a complete story of Jews as "blessed people" who have been chosen by God to be freed from slavery. They are reffered throughout the Quran as blessed.

I would say that the "farthest place of prostration would be the New Jerusalem, not Jerusalem. Jerusalem means "teaching of peace". Hence the New Jerusalem means the "new teaching of peace". A "new teaching" is farther away than the "teaching that is". See?

Blessiungs,
Mikromarius

hmmmm I'm not quite sure what you mean, mikromarius.

It is not so much about the city itself, it is about that one single spot, a place where Dome of the Rock was built.
In the article it says:

"The text of the Quranic passage says, according to a translation, "Praise be to Him who took His servant by night from the Al-Haram [Sacred] Mosque [in Mecca] to the Al-Aqsa [literally 'the most distant'] Mosque, whose environs We did bless, so that We might show him some of Our signs, for He is the All-Hearing and All-Seeing One."

Arafa contends "Al-Aqsa" must refer to an existing mosque, not a place where a mosque would be established later. "

Very odd indeed, since the quote from the quran is talking about mesjid, a place of worship, not Mosque, it can be any place of worship, church, sinagogue.
The Sura from which the quote is, is called The Children of Israel. It starts with the quote in question and continues to talk about Jews, seemingly non-related to the first Verse of it. But if you put that in context of Muhammed going to that very place where the Temple of Solomon once stood, it makes a lot more sense.

The Dome of the Rock was bulit shortly after Muhammed's death and it became a place of worship.

Later came the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

I wonder if the death threats against the author of the piece have started? Certain sects of Islam seem to have problems with anyone who questions their understanding of Islam.

Also, how do the Jews get from Blessed to Cursed?

Originally posted by paperclip
hmmmm I'm not quite sure what you mean, mikromarius.

It is not so much about the city itself, it is about that one single spot, a place where Dome of the Rock was built.
In the article it says:

"The text of the Quranic passage says, according to a translation, "Praise be to Him who took His servant by night from the Al-Haram [Sacred] Mosque [in Mecca] to the Al-Aqsa [literally 'the most distant'] Mosque, whose environs We did bless, so that We might show him some of Our signs, for He is the All-Hearing and All-Seeing One."

Arafa contends "Al-Aqsa" must refer to an existing mosque, not a place where a mosque would be established later. "

Very odd indeed, since the quote from the quran is talking about mesjid, a place of worship, not Mosque, it can be any place of worship, church, sinagogue.
The Sura from which the quote is, is called The Children of Israel. It starts with the quote in question and continues to talk about Jews, seemingly non-related to the first Verse of it. But if you put that in context of Muhammed going to that very place where the Temple of Solomon once stood, it makes a lot more sense.

The Dome of the Rock was bulit shortly after Muhammed's death and it became a place of worship.

Later came the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

I interpret this as meaning that he was simply taken up to Heaven or spiritually through time to the New Jerusalem, where God lives together with us in order to see the signs God had prepared for him. The farthest place of worship or prostration is where God is. It is not She'ol, for the noone is worshipping God in the unseen state.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Ah, the spiritual journey. I see. Yes it was a spiritual journey ( according to the legends Muhammad went to the place where Allah is), but it started in that place where now the Dome of the Rock stands.

Here is a link which descibes the history of the place including Muhammad's Night Journey:

www.sacredsites.com...

Originally posted by paperclip
Ah, the spiritual journey. I see. Yes it was a spiritual journey ( according to the legends Muhammad went to the place where Allah is), but it started in that place where now the Dome of the Rock stands.

Thanx for the link, I'll look in to it.

I'm afraid I don't follow you here, for wasn't it so that the Koran never reveiled the place, only refered to it as the end of the world so to speek, or "Al Aqsa". A place further away than the stars. A place outside the universe. He had a dream, God showed him Heaven and what should later happen in the world. He was taken away from Mecca and the world and up to God. This is how I understand the verse. Not in the body, but in the Spirit. A prophetic dream or vision not unlike the ones we know from Daniel and the other Jewish prophets. It is just written in another tradition. With another language and culture to explain things.

Yes it is true that the only house the bible tells us about that God has ever chosen among the buildings man has built, was the house he himself ordered Solomon to build, that Babylon later destroyed a first time, which was rebuilt under Serubabel, whose God and work the Syrian king dishonored by offering an unclean sacrifice before it, an act that was the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel that Jesus said should happen again, before it finally got sacked by the Romans for the second and last time, leaving no stone uppon the other. But one must remember that unless the Ark of the Covenant is present, God is not present either on the Temple Mount. The dwellingplace or throne of God is between and above the Cherubs. Two certain cherubim it is too, the two cherubim of the Law casket (which obviously was some kind of doomsday device in itself, probably some static generator or something) representing the two cherubs that guard the path to the tree of life with the swinging sword, probably the static emissions it produced if they walked too much in the desert. We're speeking of prophecy in system here. It's all about who's using it and more importantly: who's not. The Law casket is The most central thingy that the whole Mosaic system is based uppon except for the Torah that speeks of it. If the dwelling place of God with us thus is where the Law is, then we're talking about the tomb of Jesus where the Law was rediscovered together with the lamps and all the rest of these relics, by a Christian late hobby-arcaeologist Ron Wyatt, some years back. It now probably is being studied at some secret American military base in a desert somewhere. God only knows what is happening these days. For it sure is confusing. When the Jewish clerics and politicans tempted the Romans into sacrificing a a human being, even a, sorry, THE son of God, (he was rightious there is no darkness in him) God was forced to leave his position; "Why have you forsaken me?" Jesus cried out. Perhaps someone else took over for God and explained: "The Sanhedrin and the Romans has performed an abomination of desolation. That's why, God just left in a hurry down to She'ol to receive you and show you around in another realm you own. Keep up the good work, buddy!".

Jesus was slaughtered on the altar so to speek, perhaps even his blood was spilled on the mercy seat, anyway so the story goes, for right under where he got crucified the Ark is found an age later, by a the terrified Arab assistant of this Christian guy who had an epiffany outside what is called the garden tomb. You can clearly see skull like formations in the cliff the tomb is carved out of. So the place of worship mentioned, if anywhere on this planet, would be where Jesus was buried and was ressurrected, where the Ark of Covenant was hidden together with the breastplate, the lampstand and much of the other things belonging to the temple of the Law, whether it be a tent, a house or an execution cliff with a hidden cave disguised as a rich man's tomb carved into it. One hint rests in the name of the last person ever recorded to having been near the Law. His name translates "God is hidden". And Jesus being the Law in Flesh and blood rested stone dead beside it for two days and barely alive one more day before he was lifted up on his feet and was ressurrected after three days and three nights and his tomb was opened.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

True, Qur'an never revealed the place, but it also doesnt say anything like "beyond the stars". Just the farthest place of prostration.
I was trying to explain why is that place Jerusalem in Muslim tradition. There must have been a reason why the Dome of the Rock was build shortly after Muhammad's death on that very place.
As the legens says, Muhammad has met other prophets on his journey, so the whole thing was probably ment to be a symbol of the One Source of all religions.

The verse is talking about "blessed" land, an expression often used to describe Israel and Jews, the sura is called Childen of Israel, and Dome of the Rock stands where Temple of Solomon used to be. A lot of things point in that direction.

If the Ark is burried somewhere bellow the Dome, then the connection with God might still be there, therefore enabling Muhammad to ascend to Heaven through that "Gate".
However that is pure speculation, where the Ark really is, nobody knows.... Jerusalem, Etiopia, Scottland...

How many times has this been posted on ATS, too many times I think. Jerusalem is very special to Muslims. Muhammad prayed towards the direction of Jerusalem before he faced Mecca.

Paperclip is right in this post. The Qur'an didnt say Mosque, it said Masjid which could be anything. If you look at history, what other place of worship could Muhammad had travelled? Think about it. The only two places legitimate for a Muslim back then was the Ka'aba and the Temple of Solomon. It was the Temple of Solomon Muhammad traveled to. I'm pretty sure that while alive Muhammad told Muslims to try to make the pilgramage to Jerusalem.

Mecca
Medina
Jerusalem.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
How many times has this been posted on ATS, too many times I think. Jerusalem is very special to Muslims. Muhammad prayed towards the direction of Jerusalem before he faced Mecca.

Paperclip is right in this post. The Qur'an didnt say Mosque, it said Masjid which could be anything. If you look at history, what other place of worship could Muhammad had travelled? Think about it. The only two places legitimate for a Muslim back then was the Ka'aba and the Temple of Solomon. It was the Temple of Solomon Muhammad traveled to. I'm pretty sure that while alive Muhammad told Muslims to try to make the pilgramage to Jerusalem.

Mecca
Medina
Jerusalem.

So. Correct me if I'm wrong: Mohammed had a dream of the future where he saw his own ascencion to Heaven at the last Masjid, and the clerics have interpreted this as meaning the place where he worshipped God for the last time and died. Is that it? You believe that the prophet rose from death and ascended into heaven back then? To me it seems he saw the judgement, his ascencion and the signs God had prepared for him in the mass ressurrection at the end of Days. On the other hand, Revelation says the last place of worship on Earth will be mount Zion (so you're both correct), where the 144000 virgin children of Israel and the Lamb sing that secret song, they whom God and the Lamb has chosen to be a bride for the Lamb, to be the first fruit of the Millennium.

But it's obvious Jerusalem lives in the hearts of the Palestinians and Muslims in general when you see what is going on in the Middle East. It's the city of Peace, but it hasn't seen peace since God knows when. When will the people of Jerusalem start following the laws of their governments and treat eachother like neighbours, even brothers, so the killings can stop?

Blessings,
Mikromarius