A Question for the Skeptics

Originally posted by Dallas


Debunker's as I have mentioned before, are non believers and still think if you see a 'space ship' your crazy. They are closed minded fools or under government influence, possibly on the payroll.

Dallas

Hey, sign me up for this said payroll. I wouldnt mind having a piece.

Unfortunately this statement is not true. It is something we would like to believe.

Well then show your research on the matter and worry less about mine Dulcimer..

Dallas
EDIT: name spell correction

[edit on 15-8-2005 by Dallas]

This is near impossible to prove either way, but I view it as unrealistic, as think of the sheer volume of people that would have to be in on it.

Deny Ignorance. 'Nuff said.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower Denying ignorance is about judging all of the information that's available - not just the bits we want to see.

Agreed. I think "Denying Ignorance" can be bandied about by some as an absolute tool or title to confirm existence. It should be about taking all the available information available and reaching an objective conclusion. Unfortunately, the debate may never end. Reason being is that some allow questionable or marginal levels of facts to perpetuate their beliefs. Others are wiling to tailor or falsify information to push an agenda.

I absolutely love the subject of UFO's and aliens but I never allow that to cloud my reasoning. I would love to see and sample the hard evidence. Then see that evidence get qualified by people not associated with the UFO community. I am always open to materials presented, provided there is a rational discussion of what is being presented.



[edit on 16-8-2005 by nullster]

Hey Nullster, check this out. It was taken at about 60 feet depth off the coast of Belize.



[edit on 17-8-2005 by Off_The_Street]

I imagine there must be numerous photos of this miraculous find...or not. I mean the divers are only a few feet away. Their testimonies would be incredible. Imagine a UFO with its lights on underwater. Which news stations are covering this ground breaking find?

Is this is the sole photo?
If it is, then I'm saying it's simply a nice looking composite shot. Or a man made article taken out of context.


[edit on 17-8-2005 by nullster]

So let me see if I can understand you without too many words..
You don't believe in anything UFO'sh or other things beyond what you see day-to-day. Is that it?

Dallas

Well, I'm too old to keep getting reeled in ... as I have throughout the years of my miserable, stinking life.

So I have given up being a bottom-feeding groundfish. I have traded one set of scales for another.

If I had been more of a skeptic I wouldn't have traded my Pinto for a Gremlin.

I am so envious of people who have seen what they are sure was an ET/UFO because I am pretty sure they exist and that we are not alone in this universe with its billions of galaxies and trillions of stars.

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.... one more post and I can send U2U's ....

Originally posted by Dallas

So let me see if I can understand you without too many words..
You don't believe in anything UFO'sh or other things beyond what you see day-to-day. Is that it?

Dallas

No, not at all! As I said, if I believed that I would be a hypocrite. Do a search for the subject line "Wanderlight" by junglejake since the beginning. That is one bizzare account I've experienced that I shared with folks here at ATS. There are others, too, but I'm careful about what I post on here when it comes to the paranormal or unexplained. I am such because it is exactly what I said, unexplained.

A while back, I had said something on this site that since coming here, I had started to look to the skies not to see the stars, but to see something else. I got my wish in early July of last year. It was twilight, I'm sitting on a dock and looking up at the sky. I saw a bizzare shape in the sky via lights. I just saw three lights in a triangle shape, and recalled those triangle UFO sightings that are detailed in Time's UFO book (own it, tend to read it once every 2 years -- keeps the info fresh ). I wish I could have seen my expression, this was exactly what I'd been looking for! I watched it barely move across the sky, extremely slowly. Yet, my mind never snapped to, "Aliens!" I kept watching, wondering what it was. As the shape neraed the southern horizon, it passed under some clouds. The ambient light of chicago was lighting those clouds, and I was able to see the actual UFO, not just the lights. I was amazed. I was thrilled. I ran to the house I was at and told everyone what I had just seen, and a couple of people ran out to the dock to see it themselves. It was incredible. It was something I never expected to see in my entire life.

It was a stealth bomber. A B-2. It was awesome, both in slang and in it's effect on me at the time and even now. I jumped on ATS when I had the chance and told folks I saw a B-2 going over Chicago. Yet, had Chicago's ambient light not been there, had those clouds not been there, had the aircraft's path taken it elsewhere, I never would have known what those three lights were. They would have been a UFO to me -- an unidentified flying object. The U was key, though, in that sighting and others. They are unidentified. Just because I don't know what something is, don't understand how it works, can't explain how it got there doesn't immediately mean its origin is from beyond this earth. I am receptive to, but not assuming, that alien craft could be out there. Heck, if I was of a race that evolved much the same way another was elsewhere in the galaxy (assuming evolution is correct), and they were far behind my race in their development, I would want to study them to understand my own people better. I can see why aliens would want to come to earth but not make contact, but rather observe. I could even understand added stimuli to their response, such as a sighting or abduction. I am not, however, convinced that that is happening.

I guess what I'm saying is I do believe, nay, know that unidentified flying objects are out there. I simply refuse to jump to any conclusions as to their nature, origin, or purpose. Seeing something fly through the air I don't understand doesn't tell me who's in it, why and how. All it does is open the doors of a multitude of questions. As soon as I make an assumption based on something I fear or want to believe, I do a great disservice to myself, my friends here at ATS if I talk about it, and to science at its core. So I will ask those questions, and I will not accept answers that ask me to rely on the individual's reserach without any evidence supporting it besides others doing the same thing. I will question. I will always question.

Great well thought out response. I would suggest to you from my point of view of this subject, personally, I have not jumped onto it at all. It took years and years to even come out with perhaps their real.

Dallas

Originally posted by nullster
I imagine there must be numerous photos of this miraculous find...or not. I mean the divers are only a few feet away.

Their testimonies would be incredible. Imagine a UFO with its lights on underwater. Which news stations are covering this ground breaking find?

Is this is the sole photo?
If it is, then I'm saying it's simply a nice looking composite shot. Or a man made article taken out of context.


[edit on 17-8-2005 by nullster]

Exactly! There should be ROLLS of photo film shot of this object. And why exactly are NOT the big three networks scrambling get their respective piece on this story?? I'll tell you what. Show me just ONE major story on one UFO with the above mentioned proof...THEN I MIGHT believe.

Nullster said (and Toelint commented):

I imagine there must be numerous photos of this miraculous find...or not. I mean the divers are only a few feet away. Their testimonies would be incredible. Imagine a UFO with its lights on underwater. Which news stations are covering this ground breaking find?

Is this is the sole photo? If it is, then I'm saying it's simply a nice looking composite shot. Or a man made article taken out of context.

It probably is the only photo extant -- unless someone has copied it after I built it. The woman over the "spaceship" is my wife Dawn, and she really is at about 60 feet off the coast of Belize. The spaceship is simply some artist's concept I got from one of the UFO sites (perhaps Jeff Rense) which I pixel-mapped, colored, and layered (using a layer mask so you can see through its middle to the coral below) using Photoshop 7.

And that's my whole point. I am by no means a Photoshop weenie, but I can build a phony UFO just fine, and I am sure that there would be some people -- who really want to believe in Spaceship Guys -- who would use that hoax as "evidence".

Off_The_Street - My apologies. I thought you were presenting it as photographic evidence. Nice photoshop composite work. Here's a short vid I did some time ago.

Quicktime Movie
UFO Cleared for launch

Dang, that was superb. The shadow and everything -- that blows away my Belizean flying saucer!

Good work!!