Irresponsible mentality

Originally posted by gekko
Well, the war thing is not so strange, considering a lot of Americans seem to think all Muslims are "vegetables".

[edit on 14/8/05 by gekko]

You might want to either clarify your position or give proof.

We are in the process of denying ignorance, and this statement is in need of denying.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by gekko
Well, the war thing is not so strange, considering a lot of Americans seem to think all Muslims are "vegetables".

[edit on 14/8/05 by gekko]

You might want to either clarify your position or give proof.

We are in the process of denying ignorance, and this statement is in need of denying.

It was meant as a joke aimed at people who are willing to fight for animal welfare, but not for human life.

There are plenty of posts on ATS to "prove" my point though. A quick search will reveal that a lot of American members on ATS, and other places, seem to think Muslims are less well equipped in the mental section than themselves.

Islam is the problem

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Their Poor, un-educated, Inbred and angry. Islam has given NOTHING to the modern world except hatred and Jihad.

I can nevertheless see that my coment was somewhat of-topic and inappropriate.

I apologise.

gekko

Originally posted by dollmonster
But you have to admit, those one who live unselfishly for the benefit of a higher purpose, certainly have a head start.

No, I don't have to admit that at all and I don't agree in fact. I think all people are on their own path and one is not comparable, better than or lower than another. I obviously have a very different mindset than you do and if you want to call it irresponsible, expext to hear a word or 2 from me.

Although there are many roads to spiritual evolvement besides animal rights, on this particular path I do believe vegans are "utmost on the ladder" with meat- eaters "wallowing below."

Thinking one is more 'spiritually evolved' than another is a sure sign that they aren't. Have fun. Just realize that we 'wallowers' probably will have a few words to say when you come out proclaiming your 'evolvement' and 'enlightenment'.

B.H.

OK, I get it, I get it! I'm not God and therefore have no right to judge the spirituality of anyone else. You're right.

So instead of saying spiritual evolvement, I'll call it "emerging awareness and empathy" for animal liberation.

Thanks for the lesson. Maybe now more people will consider my point of view, instead of being "put off" by my arrogance.

Originally posted by dollmonster
Maybe now more people will consider my point of view, instead of being "put off" by my arrogance.

That's really the key right there. If you want people to listen to what you have to say, coming out of the box against them is just contrary to your own purpose.

I'm sorry I'm so 'preachy' and 'harsh' sometimes. Jesus! I do go overboard and I know it. I don't like that about myself. And yet, sometimes I still do it. I apologize for being so crass.

Whereas the deer munches peacefully upon grasses and wild apples, the wolf predates upon the deer.

We, as humans, because of our circumstance, have the capability of choosing whether to eat meat or not...to be, in essence, a doe or a wolf.

It boils down to choice, imo...because if left to the wild a human can only become a predator again because of the needs of the body. The amount of energy and fat we derive from meat would ensure our survival through the lean seasons (winter).

Bears, on the other hand, have the ability to store vast amounts to get them through hibernation. I doubt we could do the same, really.

We have teeth designed for meat...that alone should tell us how we evolved.

I do not believe there is anything wrong with being vegans or vegetarians...on the contrary, I admire them in certain ways, because I do not condone 'factory farming' nor genetic engineering (you know who) of livestock either. Vegans and vegetarians have made the logical next step in response to such obnoxious practices as are seen in the stockyards and slaughterhouses today.

I do also respect those who go the half step and eat 'free range' meats and applaud that discernment for the reality of the better quality of such stocks. One need only to try a scratcher chicken compared to a cage raised bird to tell the difference, both in flavour and fat content.

I also applaud anglers and hunters, who, through various ways, are beneficial to the good management of game. These people are the first to note changes in populations and the first to open their wallets to assist their regenaration.

What I don't understand is how we can treat animals in a disrespectful way. People that swerve their cars to run over a squirrel or a cat are abhorrent to me. Also, poachers who 'jack' deer or fishermen who take more than the allowed catch (for instance) are despicable creatures who have no right to fish or hunt.

May they choke on their next bite...

Originally posted by gekko
Ah, the view of the right-wingers, the pro lifers. The people who bomb abortion clinics. The people who think welfare should be discontinued, because everyone should take care of themselves. The people who support death sentence...

gekko...

Pro lifers do not bomb abortion clinics. Terrorists do. And those
terrorists who do are NOT pro life.

I am pro life and lean to the right. I am anti-death penalty.
I do not bomb abortion clinics nor do I support terrorists who do.

Welfare should not be discontinued but it is taken advantage of
and should be monitored very well. People SHOULD be able to
take care of themselves, but for those who can't then welfare
should be there as a safety net.

for goodness sake gekko ..

[edit on 8/21/2005 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by dollmonster
I'll call it "emerging awareness and empathy" for animal liberation.

In that case, I just liberated a whopper from Burger King.

And now I'm reading this thread. It's the incidental little coincidences that make laugh. I'm sure that cow had a family, and they all tasted delicious.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
for goodness sake gekko ..

I was a bit grumpy when I wrote all of that. I have already apologised for it, and a couple of other things, further up the thread...

Anyway, on topic. About half the vegetarians I know haven't got a clue what they are doing. I used to share flat with this girl who basically lived on lettuce and tomatoes. And she couldn't understand why she was always feeling ill. Some people are vegetarians for good reasons, ethical or medical. Others just do it as a fashion statement.

Either way, go organic. And don't forget to be nice to other people, occasionally.

Definition of benevolent by a previous poster:

Benevolent:
"Entry Word: benevolent

Synonyms: GENEROUS 1, big, chivalrous, considerate, greathearted, lofty, magnanimous
Related Words: beneficent; charitable; humane; compassionate, tenderhearted
hummm? "

I am very often miffed....in finding this definition applicable to the animals I meet. I just dont find them very benevolent at all. While I often find them affectionate and seeking attention ..on the other hand when hungry I have found them often to be cruel and very self centered even selfish among their own kind. Why is this??? Benevolence???

Down on the waterfront where I work if I had a coronary and fell overboard into the salt water...I often wonder how benevolent the animals would be as they picked my carcass over ..before the gasses floated what was left to the surface. Same thing if I had a coronary on the trail in some woods.

I dont know what education levels some of you have adopted about nature and the very essence of nature and what it really is. What security blanket you have adopted or had adopted for you at the expense of someone else. Nature is a very cruel taskmaster..across the board. Only a ignorance passed on by public education and media propaganda can get people so ignorant about the nature of wildlife..including humans. It is cruel jungle out there.

While I dont go around killing animals for pleasure or ego needs ..I have no problems with people who hunt or fish or eat meat. Its their buisness if they want to do so or even refrain from doing so. Leather is one of the oldest useful products among men for milleniums.
I can assure you that when I used my leather tree climbing outfit to climb and cut down the neighborwomans tree for her when it had broken apart after Hurricane Isabel..she did not complain about it based on her vegitarian principles. If she had..she is should integrate herself into the commitments necessary to accomplish this task for herself..no safety net.
I dont hunt...I do shoot and have taught myself to do so. I would much rather fish. Fishing is one of the simple pleasures in my life. Both as sport and for food.
Working on the waterfront at night it becomes immediately clear how cruel and viscious animals are in their quest for food..both in nature and when panhandling from me. I am not cruel to animals..even when I am catching and eating them.
My main point is be very careful what you think is benevolent.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I am very often miffed....in finding this definition applicable to the animals I meet.

Is that what that was about? I was totally confused as to why my screen name had anything to do with... well, anything, really. When dollmonster addressed me as "Benevolent" Heretic, because of the quotes, I assumed s/he thought I wasn't being very benevolent. But perhaps it did have something to do with animals. I don't know.

I used a definition from Merriam-Webster when choosing my screen name:
"marked by or suggestive of goodwill". I believe in adding to the good will that exists in the world. But note: my other name is Heretic, the definition of which is:
"one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : NONCONFORMIST" I definitely do not conform.

I eat clean beef and store bought other meat. I don't have any issues with anyone choosing whether they eat meat, are a vegetarian or a fruitarian I have hunted and fished and enjoyed it. And if I needed food, you can bet I'd do it again. I have pets and I LOVE animals. Always have.

The fact that I can switch over and eat animals is something I can't really explain to someone else and don't really care to justify. It's my choice, it's legal, I feel in integrity about it and I figure it's really nobody else's business. I don't like the way animals are treated and slaughtered, and I'm pretty accepting that that's the way it is right now. Life's not perfect.

Benevolent Heretic

Please don't apologize for being "preachy" or "harsh." Sometimes that's the only way to make people see they're wrong, especially stubborn opinionated Aquarius women like myself.

Since my original post, I've started to replace my leather shoes, purses and jackets. I'm also happy to report all my household supplies are now purchased only at Trader Joe's, Whole Foods or Berkeley Bowl, where everything is certified organic, cruelty free and environmentally safe.

I'm still working on the cheese thing though!

I pretty much agree with your last post. I like and own pets also. I dont go around killng them for fun. I will kill animals for food..as I stated fishing is one of my prime ways of relaxing and acquiring food.
This may sound strange but when I own pets for many of their infirmities I take them to the vet. When it become obvious that they cannot be mended and it is time I prefer to put them down myself. I prefer it be done by loving hands not a stranger. It is sometimes very difficult but it is my way.
Thanks Benevolent for your last post.

Orangetom