Zionism Contradicts Judaism

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posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 07:29 PM
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Zionism contradicts Judaism. Modern day Jews say the reason for their repossession of Israel is they owned it at one time, it was given to the Jews for all time, so they have a right to repossess the land.

Only problem with this idea is, Jews who practice Judaism must wait for the Moshiach (Messiah) in order to rebuild the Temple and to restore the Statehood. But since Theodore Herzl, founder of modern day zionism, Jews have decided to take that message and gloss it over with rhetoric and hollow decisions. They stuck their nose up at the Moshiach because they can, they had the power via Chaim Weizmann and Ben Gurion. Only trouble for the modern Jews who decided to go against Judaic teachings - even though they say they are religious Jews - is they've decided to spit in the face of HaShem (God) again.

Biblical prophecies can be found throughout the Tanakh (Old Testament):

The Moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing them back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem. (see: Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8, 30; Hosea 3:4-5)

The Moshiach will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (non-Jews). (see: Isaiah 2:2-4, 11:10, 42:1)

The Moshiach will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship. (see: Jeremiah 33:18)

The Moshiach will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land. (see: Jeremiah 33:15)

All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel. (see: Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8, 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5)

The whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d (God) as the only true G-d and the Jewish religion as the only true religion. (see: Isaiah 2:3; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9)

There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin. (Zephaniah 3:13)


Israel is full of murder, robbery, jealousy, and competition. Modern Jews are in a continuous state of denial. They have rationalized their position as a secular Jew as opposed to a religious Jew, and somehow, stripped away the idea of conscience, and decided to blend the two ideas, regardless of what their HaShem required of them. So much for being chosen.

Thanks for your time, Edward




posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 12:18 AM
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All those quotes you refered to have already been fullfilled by Jesus Christ ....He was the Promised Messiah of the chosen people the ''Jews''....
quote///the sayings of the Prophets were fulfilled: Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on an ass, and on a colt, the foal of an ass (Matt. 21:5).





According to the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets, the Messiah must belong to the lineage of King David. (II Kings 7:1; Ps. 131:11; Jer. 23:5, 33:16; Ezek. 34:23-24, 37:24). Clearly, in order to verify the fulfillment of this prophecy it is necessary to have an accurate genealogical record. Knowing the importance of this messianic sign, the Jews kept genealogical records of all the ancestors of David.
These were kept in Bethlehem, where He was born. For this reason, when it came time for the birth of Jesus Christ, Joseph and the Virgin Mary, who were of the lineage of David, had to go from their town of Nazareth to distant Bethlehem, in order to be registered in the genealogical book of the new descendants of this king.
These genealogical records were extant right up until the time of the destruction of Bethlehem. Utilizing them, the Evangelists Matthew and Luke were able to reproduce in their Gospels the complete genealogy of Jesus Christ (Matt. 1, Luke 3), and thereby to prove His generation from King David.


On the threshold~of the New Millennium

IX
helen



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 01:06 AM
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...tell this to the Jews. I understand your Christian perspective, but in regards to the Jews, in and of themselves, they've yet to have a Messiah/Moshiach.

Nevertheless, thanks for the reply, Edward



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by 39 drops of solder
Zionism contradicts Judaism. Modern day Jews say the reason for their repossession of Israel is they owned it at one time, it was given to the Jews for all time, so they have a right to repossess the land.
Although even the Sacred Scriptures, tbe Torah doesn't say that, exactly. The covenant of the land is conditional.

Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them. Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
Deuteronomy 7:11-12

And the specific consequences, related to both keeping the covenant and breaking same, are found in graphic detail in Deuteronomy 28. From an objective perspective, these things can be seen in their reality--as things that have taken/are taking place.



Only problem with this idea is, Jews who practice Judaism must wait for the Moshiach (Messiah) in order to rebuild the Temple and to restore the Statehood.
But the idea of 'statehood' is more of man's device, because God has a kingdom--not a 'state.' The 'statehood' which was established in 1948 is in no way comparable to the kingdom which God will restore to Israel--a remnant of all 12 tribes--not just some of mostly Judah and Benjamin.

Even more than ironic is that when He who spoke of this very thing--rebuilding the Temple (which would essentially mean Solomon's--not Herod's!) complete with the Ark of the Covenant (our hearts) containing the Law (the Spirit of God) in just 3 days!--they were not only unbelieving, but picked up stones with which to kill the messenger. After all, perhaps what they could only see is that they had a temple already--despite the fact the Ark no longer made its abode in the Holy of Holies, it did bring in revenue (in the form of the temple taxes from all Jews not to mention the lucrative trade of money changing and dove selling) and was quite prosperous for those who officiated over it. What nonsense it must have sounded like to those who couldn't see past the last column of their financial ledgers and the reach of their man-made sceptre (which I refer to being the laws of the Pharisees, severely convoluted from the original form given to Moses on Sinai).



But since Theodore Herzl, founder of modern day zionism, Jews have decided to take that message and gloss it over with rhetoric and hollow decisions.
And it seems to me, that if they consider that what they have now is somehow God restoring blessings they once lost, that they have very small expectations of God and don't believe their own distant yet glorious history in the days of David and Solomon.


Only trouble for the modern Jews who decided to go against Judaic teachings - even though they say they are religious Jews - is they've decided to spit in the face of HaShem (God) again.
But in the end, as sad as it is right now--is it not all God's will in all things being done? For the good of the whole world? I believe this 100%.


The Moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing them back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem. (see: Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8, 30; Hosea 3:4-5)

The Moshiach will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (non-Jews). (see: Isaiah 2:2-4, 11:10, 42:1)

The Moshiach will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship. (see: Jeremiah 33:18)

The Moshiach will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land. (see: Jeremiah 33:15)
But the throne restored is the throne of David (Jeremiah 33:17)--which would include all 12 tribes and so is not Jews nor a divided house but a reunited Israel. Jewish law is more specifically the babylonian Talmud, and the Mishna--arising during and after the Babylonian captivity. But the true law was given to all the children of Israel, via Moses--which of course, is the Torah.


All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel. (see: Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8, 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5)
Not just the Jewish people, but both Israel and Judah:

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the
outcasts of Israel, and gather together the
dispersed of Judah
from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 11:12

But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Jeremiah 23:8

For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
Hosea 3:4-5

These prophesies I don't truly see as applicable exclusively to those who currently claim the land of 'Israel' as their rightful possession and still call God 'Ha Shem'--because these things are about both the remaining House of Judah (Jews, the southern kingdom) and the 10 lost tribes (Israel, the northern kingdom), who have been scattered and unknowing of themselves for 2000 years. I've read many Jewish opinions that these '10 lost tribes' are a myth, and aren't really lost--and I've heard other Jews say that these are gathered into Israel now--and then there is the modern christian movement who either believe that the whole 'church' has somehow replaced Israel or else that this or that modern nation, as a whole, is 'Israel.'

But none of those things align with what the scriptures say. Israel are plainly declared as God's elect--in the words of the prophets.

Israel is neither the Jews nor the christian institution, neither is it the US or Great Britian--although surely some of Israel are even now making their individual exoduses out of those first two 'beasts' who rule over these lands--and their identity has been preordained by God and so no amount of name-stealing can change the facts of God's will.


The whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d (God) as the only true G-d and the Jewish religion as the only true religion. (see: Isaiah 2:3; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9)
Once again, God never said He was the God of the Jews--He is the God of Israel, the Holy One of Israel--Israel meaning those of Jacob (who became no longer decievers but chosen because 'he prevailed/strived with God'--not against God, but with God). Judaism, as a religion, was the only true religion that's ever existed--but it is no longer such, it became idolatry the minute the evening sacrifice was offered on Passover in the year Jesus of Nazareth was crucified. They had no more acknowledgement of God's acceptance of their sacrifices in the temple, from that moment on until the day it was destroyed--and these things are recorded in the Mishna, so definitely they occurred--and so also then was Christ's sacrifice accepted by the Father. And as He said to them 'Your house is left to you desolate.'


There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin. (Zephaniah 3:13)

Israel is full of murder, robbery, jealousy, and competition. Modern Jews are in a continuous state of denial. They have rationalized their position as a secular Jew as opposed to a religious Jew, and somehow, stripped away the idea of conscience, and decided to blend the two ideas, regardless of what their HaShem required of them. So much for being chosen.
Their fathers were chosen and the covenants were with their fathers, dependent upon continuing in the faith of their fathers, and the most important, the oath made to Abraham, mentioned as God's friend! has been fulfilled. And essentially, the choosing is the same as the election, and we are told in both Ezekial chapter 9 and the third chapter of Malachi about the true nature of the actual choosing of the 'crown jewels.'

We are also told in various places that 'in that day all who call on the name of the LORD will be saved.' But 'the name' is not His name--they still fear to utter His OT name and despise His NT name--and there is no provision otherwise. And so even now, that it might seem there has been much progress made, it is still just temporal man-made progress--questionable achievements through the imagination of their own hearts.

Good topic for discussion, Edward!



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by 39 drops of solder
Only problem with this idea is, Jews who practice Judaism must wait for the Moshiach (Messiah) in order to rebuild the Temple and to restore the Statehood.



this is an ultra-ultra orthodox view. a more common belief is that you are supposed to live as if it is the messianic age. God helps those who help themselves.





 
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