Bush Backs Equal Footing for 'Intelligent Design'

'Part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought,' president says.

Washington, Aug. 2 - President Bush waded into the debate over evolution and "intelligent design" Monday, saying schools should teach both theories on the creation and complexity of life.

In a wide-ranging question-and-answer session with a small group of reporters, Bush essentially endorsed efforts by Christian conservatives to give intelligent design equal standing with the theory of evolution in the nation's schools

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Looks like the President is seeking equal opportunity for alternative ideas on how we all came to be here. If the curriculum is handled correctly and scientifically, I think it would be a good thing. Otherwise it would fail the seperation of church and state ruling made by the Supremes.

This is the first I have heard of this idea of his. Any comments, thoughts.?
That was probably a very stupid question.

Grace & Peace,

Lightseeker

It's called "Dancin' with the one that brung ya' " - simple political payback.
Makes me glad I don't have kids.

If they represent a multitude of religious thought than intellegent design might be ok but it sounds like they just want to push a christian agenda in the schools. I think that it would hurt them in the long run anyway, kids are not dumb and if you try to teach them an idea based on faith then they may reject it, just like they do the easter bunny, tooth fairy, and santa clause.

the easter bunny isn't real?



but yeah, he's just feeding his christian right folks who got him his ticket. don't expect much to come of this. why isn't he discussing more important issues though? you'd wonder.

Originally posted by lightseeker
This is the first I have heard of this idea of his. Any comments, thoughts.?

Yeah, note to self. Don't get your news beliefnet.

It's 2 days behind everyone else.

Bush Advocates Teaching ID in Schools
(Conspiracies in Religion discussion)

Bush: Schools Should Teach ID (Origins Forum)

Please find one of the two to continue discussion. Thanks.

EDIT: Scratch that. I'll just move this to Religion in Government on the Politics Board.

BUT NO MORE!!!!!!!!

[edit on 4-8-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by RANT
EDIT: Scratch that. I'll just move this to Religion in Government on the Politics Board.

BUT NO MORE!!!!!!!!

[edit on 4-8-2005 by RANT]

Thanks Rant, appreciate it mucho. I promise I'll be good from now on.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Fine, and I will go into history and teach that Hitler didn't commit the Holocaust of the jews, it was aliens.

Then I will go into math class and kill kids because they think 2+2=4 when in fact it equals 17.

You see, if you teach bull# in one class you might as well teach bull# in every class. So leave BS out of science and we will leave you people alone to drink the kool-aid because the aliens are behind the comet.

This was totally uncalled for, and IMO, violated the T & C's, for disrespect and flaming, to name just two. If you can't make your point without being insulting, maybe you should stay away from the subject matter. I don't refer to what you happen to believe in as BS. I don't and will not never insist that you or anyone else agree with what I believe in, but at least show a little respect for me as a human being. The same respect that we all show you.

Thank you.

[Edited for content]

[edit on 8/6/2005 by lightseeker]

Intelligent Design or Creation is a religious concept. Are they teaching other religious concepts in school? Do they teach the Ten Commandments or The Thirteen Articles of Faith or Reincarnation? Do they teach prayer or catechism or the books of the bible? No.

Then I think that creation, as a religious concept, coming from the bible has no place in school. That is for parents and churches to teach their children if they wish.

I have no clue how creation could be 'handled scientifically'. Wondering about that... Would love to hear thoughts on that.

The Folowers in the state religion, Evolution, are too insecure to have a competing concept considered. That there is supporting evidence for I.D. is ignored by them, that field scientists are giving the concept of evolution the heave-ho because of its flaws, and yes, that kids are smart enough to question, compare, and think critically scares the Evolution religionists, and they are afraid of losing converts.

The fact that the majority of the nation claims to be Christian has no bearing on the thoughts of the Evolutionist religionists, even though the Christians make up the majority of the tax base that is used to spread the Evolution religion.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
That there is supporting evidence for I.D. is ignored by them, ...scares the Evolution religionists, and they are afraid of losing converts.

You are funny, my friend! Evolution religionist! Hilarious! Never heard that one before! Something tells me that you've had this argument leveled at you before because of your religious beliefs.

Well, I am not an 'Evolutionist Religionist'. I don't know how we got here and I don't care, but I don't think wizardry should be taught in school as science. The theory of evolution is the closest thing we know to what really may have happened. It's based on science. It's taught as a theory. Based on Science.

Can you answer my questions?

What's this supporting evidence for ID??
How can I.D. be handled scientifically? I'm really curious.
Do they teach the Ten Commandments or The Thirteen Articles of Faith or Reincarnation?
Do they teach prayer or catechism or the books of the bible?
Should they? Should all schools be religious?

The fact that the majority of the nation claims to be Christian has no bearing on the thoughts of the Evolutionist religionists, even though the Christians make up the majority of the tax base that is used to spread the Evolution religion.

If you want your kids to learn Creationismist, put them in a private school or better yet, teach them at home or at church! Nobody's trying to stop you. You're trying to force religion into government. It's not meant to be. Do you just ignore the first Amendment?

I know you won't answer my questions, I don't know why I bother to ask...

Peace

Originally posted by lightseeker
Looks like the President is seeking equal opportunity for alternative ideas on how we all came to be here. If the curriculum is handled correctly and scientifically, I think it would be a good thing. Otherwise it would fail the seperation of church and state ruling made by the Supremes.

The President's Science Advisor has since clarified Goober W's brain fart.

"Evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology" and "Intelligent design is NOT a scientific concept."

The "teaching ID" or equal opportunity for alternatives to science hopes and prayers among creationists have been redacted now as merely "discussing" the "social context" in which valid science makes creationists mad or some such political correctness promoting a form of affirmative action for non-scientific "discussion" in science class.

Bizarre. Grasping at the last straw I'd say.

It's over for theology in science class. It really is. Time to move on, and take it back to church.

But it aint scientists.

The only people that appear to have created a new religion are the obsessive anti-evolutionists insistent on religious correctness in science class. The theory of evolution seems to have become as important to them all of a sudden as what I do in my bedroom for some reason.

Why evolution and not the theory of gravity? Go crazy on that. It's just a theory, and full of holes, has limiting cases, and even revised prior "laws" itself... and as the theory of relativity showed, it along with all theories will continue to evolve. And I can't prove the hand of God isn't just pushing me down instead of gravitational pull, so why not introduce that "alternative theory" as well?

I should hope the reason we don't hinder physics with religious correctness is obvious, as it should be why we shouldn't hindering biology with 'alternate' theories to science as well.

Science is not religion. The theory of gravity is no more important to me or anyone else that rejects the teaching of theology in science class than the theory of evolution.

But if not being a creationist makes me an "evolutionist" (according to the witnessing anti-evolutionist) why not a "gravitationist" or "mathematician" (that has theorems too) or a "thermodynamicist" while we're at it. You've got alot of so called "religions" to wage holy war on according to your own "it's a religion" logic. So best get started small. I'd take on addition, then work my way up to long division before taking on biology.

You can't make science my religion simply because I don't share yours, and the rabid efforts to do so don't get your religion in the door to science class any more than science is invited to church.

Some people are mad they pay taxes regardless. I'm mad churches don't. But at least you've got that going for ya, plus faith based community initiatives. But faith based religious correctness in science class? Enough already.

Straight from the creationist's mouth, here's a handy guide of hogwash Answer's In Genesis strongy suggest creationists stop saying because it makes creationists look like they don't know what they're talking about and have no more business giving opinions on what should be taught in science class than a chihuahua (even if he does pay taxes).

One is: "Evolution is just a theory." Well, duh.

Glad we got that settled.

Now, BH, you hurt my feelings! When have I intentionally ignored anything you said? Now, true, I forget about threads, get caught up in others and sometimes forget to return, but this is obviously not the case.

Inregard to your request to scientific evidence that supports I.D., I have none bookmarked and have none in book form on hand. If you're really wanting some, I'm sure you can find it.

As far as me sending my kids to private school although my tax dollars are used to support government-sponsored religion, I have a better idea. Why don't we take the hypothesis of Evolution religion out? Is it important? Well, Hell no! Does it prove a thing? Of course not! Is it used for anything more than as a tool by those who hate the nation to destroy it by attacking the children? No. Is it a science, such as Physics, chemistry, Biology or Zoology? Obviously not. It is nothing more than someone's idea that attempts to use warped scientific "evidence" to support a preconceived notion. A true lover of science would have great difficulty with it.

Rant, to make it perfectly clear, I'm not going to go tit for tat with you or any other over the hypothesis of evolution, but just let me make a couple of things clear.

I never said science is a religion. Science is supported by Christianity and has been fostered by Christianity. Evolution, is not a science. There is no "Evolutionology" as a science, but it would be a great name for the religion. Therefore there is no reason to assert that I said science is insecure. On the other hand, it is the people who are followers of Evolutionology that are insecure as they will not tolerate any competition after they used trickery and leachery to remove Creationism from the Christian nation's tax-funded schools and replaced it with their own religion.

You know what, Rant, you have an entire forum that is dedicated to furthering the conspiracy against the country and the bashing of Christianity, must you also have this forum as well? This does belong in your Creation v Evolution froum, you know. No politics here, just the furthering of the NWO conspiracy that tyou support!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Now, BH, you hurt my feelings! When have I intentionally ignored anything you said?

I didn’t say you’d ignore me, I said you won’t answer my questions, and it appears I was right. You told me to find the answers myself. I looked and found nothing in the way of evidence. Most of what I saw was religion trying to discredit the scientific theory of evolution.

If you want to put a case to me that I might believe, you’re going to have to come up with some evidence. Not send me off to find it on my own. Otherwise, sir, you have no case.

As far as me sending my kids to private school although my tax dollars are used to support government-sponsored religion, I have a better idea. Why don't we take the hypothesis of Evolution religion out?

You seem to be confused about the word ‘religion’. Evolution is not a religion.
Religion is ‘the commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance.’
Religious is ‘scrupulously and conscientiously faithful’
I guarantee you that if a body of evidence were to be presented to the scientific community tomorrow that disproved evolution, it would be dropped like a hot potato for the new theory of existence. Unlike religion, whose followers are faithful, devoted and unwavering in their beliefs, even in the face of contrary scientific data.

Is it a science, such as Physics, chemistry, Biology or Zoology?

No, but it is based on science. There are mathematical theories, too, but based on the science of mathematics, they are taught in math classes.

Creation is pseudoscience, not science. I believe in homeopathy. I take herbs every day. But I know better than to say that it’s a science. Just because I take them and they work for me, does not mean they will help everyone. I believe in them. But it’s not science and does not belong in medical school any more than creation belongs in public school.

So, where does that leave us regarding my questions and your answers?

What's this supporting evidence for ID?? Find it yourself.
How can I.D. be handled scientifically? Look it up.
Do they teach the Ten Commandments or The Thirteen Articles of Faith or Reincarnation? No Answer.
Do they teach prayer or catechism or the books of the bible? No answer.
Should they? Should all schools be religious? No answer (but I have an inkling of your opinion).
Do you just ignore the first Amendment? No Answer.

I'm sorry Thomas Crowne. Case dismissed!