Hijacking Christianity. The RCC and Mary, Queen of Heaven

This topic has come up in many threads.

The secular / atheist part of the world sees the RCC as the voice of christianity. You say christian, they think Pope. 99.9% have no clue of what is in the bible or what the RCC teaches.

The fact is, the doctrine teaches things that are not in the bible, and contrary to the bible.

The Roman Catholic church might possibly have started out as a godly organization. Over time, much has been added to their doctrine that now has it at odds with the bible.

Below I will show enough that even the outsider should be able to see. My hope is that some catholics will see, and compare rcc doctrine to the bible, and be blessed.



Mary is born without original sin (makes God a liar Rom 3:10 , Mat 19:17, Rom 3:23, 5:12)

AND

Remained sinnless and a virgin her whole life. (makes God a liar via above verses and Mat 1:25, Gal 1:19, Mat 12:49-50, and more)

THEN

Ascended into Heaven just like Jesus where she took her throne as Queen of Heaven....and is now worshiped in the same manner as Jesus. (see notes at end)

Concerning worship of others besides Christ and God

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

The two books of Kings must be read to know many of the things referred to in the OT, by the NT.

Ahab married Jezebel, daughter of the king of Sidon. She brought with her, the pagan gods of her father. Baal and Astarte/Ester (Queen of Heaven, mother of God, Perpetual virgin etc ). She started her inquisition and had the prophets of God hunted down and killed until only Elijah remained. 1 KINGS 19:14

Jesus is the bread of life. Eating things sacrificed to idols would be 'listening to a false prophetess' in this case. God calles idolitry, fornication.

You cannot serve two masters.

From the catechism it seems that the rcc has trouble with the concept of the trinity.

509 Mary is truly "Mother of God" since she is the mother of the eternal Son of God made man, who is God himself.

Mother of the Son of God. Not God. Either there is a Trinity, or there is not.

Now, about mary worship

www.vatican.va...

That page is a must read if you want to get a jump start and be ahead of the curve. Already having the bible version of events... On that page you will watch mary evolve from human, to sinless, perpetual virgin, mother of the living God, queen of heaven, mother of you and I.

Keep in mind. Mary was not chosen because she was blessed. She was blessed because she was chosen. Huge difference.


###########################

Now...

May Mary, Gate of Heaven, help us never to forget and never to lose sight of the Heavenly Homeland, the final destination of our pilgrimage here on earth.

from here

Compare to

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

###########

Watch scripture get twisted

Its also to be noted how they make it look like Mary had a choice. Its very important.

I will leave the bulk of that page to your discernment of scripture and skip right to the prayer at the end

7. To you, Virgin Immaculate, predestined by God above every other creature to be the advocate of grace and model of holiness for his people, today in a special way I renew the entrustment of the whole Church.

Mary is not the advocate of grace.
Jesus is the model of Holiness
The body of CHRIST does NOT trust in MARY.

May you guide your children on their pilgrimage of faith, making them ever more obedient and faithful to the Word of God.
No matter how much you twist it, we are not guided by Mary, helped to be obedient by mary, nor is our faith in Jesus inclreased by mary.

May you accompany every Christian on the path of conversion and holiness, in the fight against sin and in the search for true beauty that is always an impression and a reflection of divine Beauty.

Mary does not accompany us. Nor does Samuel, Saul, or David. Mary does not convert us, nor help us in that. Mary does not help us in the war of the spirit against the flesh. If Beauty is love...then the love that is seen is the love of God, imparted to us through the Holy Spirit, and reflecting Him who sent it. It has nothing to do with Mary.


May you obtain peace and salvation for all the peoples. May the eternal Father, who desired you to be the immaculate Mother of the Redeemer, also renew in our time through you, the miracles of his merciful love. Amen!
Mary cannot obtain salvation for you. Mary was not born without sin (immaculate) nor did she remain sinless (no not one). God does not work through Mary, but through the Holy Spirit. Mercy is straight from God.


##########


Call For Special Prayers

13. We ask you, Venerable Brothers, to make known Our wishes and Our urgent pleas to the faithful entrusted to your care, in whatever way you deem most suitable. We also ask that you make provisions for special prayers in every diocese and parish during the month of May; in particular, on the feast of the Queenship of Mary, let there be solemn public prayer for the intentions We have mentioned.

14. You should know that We are relying particularly on the prayers of children and those suffering affliction, for their pleas have special power to penetrate heaven and soften God's justice. Since this is a perfect occasion, do not fail to put repeated emphasis on the recitation of the Rosary, the prayer so pleasing to Our Lady and so often recommended by the Roman Pontiffs. It affords the faithful an excellent means of complying effectively and pleasingly with our divine Master's command: "Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you. " (2).

Pray to Mary. Encourage the children to pray to mary.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.


Notice the note 2 at the end. It points you to Mat 7:7

What is not pointed to is

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it

Not in Marys name. Not TO Mary.
TO God
In Jesus name.

You cannot serve two masters.

There is much more. Id like to make this a comprehensive listing for easy referrence, so please feel free to help out. Its important to make the distinction between what is thought to be from Christ, and what is 'said' or credited to Christ.

so what is the voice of christianity?

when someone says christianity i don't think pope, because that's catholic. if someone says christianity i'd think arch bishop of canterbury, but again i might be wrong.

if mary is jesus' mother, and god is jesus' fater, that makes mary god's wife...what was she doing cheating on joseph like that??

mary: ''joseph, i'm pregnant''.
joseph: ''but we haven't had sex''
mary: ''i know the holy spirit made me pregnant''
joseph: ''are you sure you haven't been cheating''
mary: ''pretty sure, i'm still a virgin remember''
joseph: ''are you sure you haven't been putting it around town?''
mary: ''well...''

jesus wasn't who he was until the council of nicaea. they made him the son of god and made him the centre of christianity. its no different to making mary the mother of god or her the centre of christianity. there's probably hundreds of sects of christianity, all having their own opinions on how to interpret the bible and everyone else's interpretation is wrong. surely this means that there is no one voice of christianity. its just many many voices argueing, complaining they are right, shouting who isn't right and so on.

So what have they done that has not been done by all Christians? Most people when they think of the Bible, think Christian which too is a fallacy since The Old Testament, the first Bible, belonged to the Jews, which all of Christianity hijacked as theirs.

Like it or not, all Christian demoniations find their home base in Catholicism, where the “Roman” ownership came during one of the many schisms between Catholic factions. For Christians to single out the RCC doctrine as being wrong is a strawman argument since, it is from Catholic doctrine that beliefs such as the trinity; original sin; hell, resurrection and salvation; Easter and Christmas celebrations hail. All of which came into practise by virtue of early Catholics and pagans duking out their various interpretations of the OT and various writings purported to be divinely inspired. Those who cried louder and who could command the support of the monarchy just happened to win the shouting matches.

Just as the original Catholic Church was a derivative from Judaism, so too are all current Christians demoninations derivatives of Catholicsm, and each would have us believe that theirs is the way, and the truth. Well how can that possibly be, when at the very heart of the philosophy lies one sole belief in a particular deity, when in fact they cannot agree amongst themselves how best to spread the word of this deity and be a part of his heaven? And still Christianity is evolving, where after 2,000 years, divine inspiration it seems, has not yet been able to come up with a non-contestable and bullet proof doctrine, or unite Jesus followers in what they claim is the only acceptable philosophy for residing in God's heaven.

Often in here, the 2 billion plus followers are tossed out in support of Christian correctness and strength, when this is done, there is no distinction made between RCC and others, for to do that would mean that the numbers eligible for salvation would drop by 1.1 billion, leaving the remaining 1 billion associated with the remaining denominations to jockey for position in Heaven because each views their doctrine as the only truth. When all is said and done, the 1 billion remaining cannot even sort it out amongst themselves as to which church sect; fundamentalists, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Christadelphians, and Baptists, slugging it out under their own banners of Protestantism, Anglicanism and Orthodoxy carries the most weight with God. They all cannot be right, and if there is any truth at all to Jesus as saviour, salvation will come to an extremely small number when the winning church is revealed.

Religions always will evolve just as they always have, because the diversity throughout the ages attests to the fact that they are not based on sound logic or proof of their deified stories, for if it did, there would be but one religion, one faith only, and its membership would be marching in lockstep. So rather than go out of your way to knock the matriarch of your own religious belief, you should be busy trying to unite the various sects within whatever banner above you place yourself.

Bravo! Excellent post SIB. I've related this same information, time & time again, but have confirmed, that the task of enlightening zealots with reality, is like trying to drown a fish in water. It is usually, as is often said, an exercise in futility, because any religious person will defend their views with the articles of their faith, and their perceptions thereof, which are not based on deductive reasoning & logic, and often not even on known reality. It is a rare occurence to see the eyes open, but well worth the effort when it happens.





Edited to correct syntax

[edit on 23-7-2005 by Lordling]

The logical fallacy of it all is this:

Christ, being a jew, came for the jews, and is the continuation of judaism. Christ was believed by jews, followed by jews, worshiped by jews. Then came the gentiles.

Now enter the RCC, who turns after the example of Ahab and Jezebel, something that we have a clear example of in judaism, and you ...who have no clue about this thing of which I speak, wish to say that the RCC is some sort of 'original'.

Go figure.

You did not discuss any of the topic points. That is why you missed the point of the topic.

Originally posted by jake1997

You did not discuss any of the topic points. That is why you missed the point of the topic.

In fact I not only discussed the topic point, I outright blew it away by virtue of showing you that your dismissal of the RCC is warped and extolled by the very nature that your belief is deeply engrained from theft and fanciful interpretation itself. Without the first Catholic church as matriarch, you either would have no such doctrines to begin with, and were it not for the loathing the ruling king of that part of the world had, you might even be joining be joining the Jewish chorus that Jesus was not the messiah or you might be offering prayer to Mithras.

Of course all of that is just a bit too much for you to wrap your head around, beacuse you like all the billions who swore up and down and believing that their Egyptian, Babylonian, Viking, Roman or Greek gods were the true omnipotents, are brainwashed to the point that cognitive ability is robbed from you. As with them you too will go to your grave believing in a superstition that man at some later date long after you have rotted away morphs superstition into yet a new religious belief, and yours fades away and takes its place along all of the other defunct religions.

In fact it is happening right before your eyes, but it seems too many just cannot see history being written in the present, they but rely on books provide it for them well after the fact, with truncated and interpretative stories thatmust obviously leave them with impression that thousands of years came and went as quickly as you read the pages, and that what they are today is that which is just, righteous and all knowing for they cannot be as ignorant as their ancestors. Is that not how you view it Jake?

The logical fallacy of it all is this:

Christ, being a jew, came for the jews, and is the continuation of judaism. Christ was believed by jews, followed by jews, worshiped by jews. Then came the gentiles.

You are absolutely correct, the above is a fallacy, but there can be no logic to it, just as there is no logic that Jesus a Jew, would be put on earth to do away with the very religion within which he was raised and which he espoused. That was done by the Catholic church, and it is that which in fact you believe to be true.

Originally posted by jake1997
This topic has come up in many threads.

The secular / atheist part of the world sees the RCC as the voice of christianity. You say christian, they think Pope. 99.9% have no clue of what is in the bible or what the RCC teaches.

The fact is, the doctrine teaches things that are not in the bible, and contrary to the bible.

The Roman Catholic church might possibly have started out as a godly organization. Over time, much has been added to their doctrine that now has it at odds with the bible.

That part of my original post negates your idea that history is being ignored.

Just as the jews came up out of Egypt and then fell away when they received the land...so too has their been a falling away. Later, after christ came...we can read in the NT that there were many falling away from the truth even then.

You, who do not believe judaism or christianity, are in no place to decide if Christ is true or not to the OT.
You can only go by the fact that some jews believe and some dont.

Now..consider this.. if the jews that believe Jesus is the Messiah are correct...then christianity is really the continuation of judaism and the bible says that one day the remnant of Israel will believe.


If you are a bible believer...then the opening post should be easily verified or corrected.

I am open to either

HEY MODS .. Jake is blathering his anti-Catholic 'mission' in ATS again.
Wanna' move this down to BTS Religion Forum?
*sigh* Poor Jake ....

Originally posted by jake1997That part of my original post negates your idea that history is being ignored.

True history as we have proof today dear wo/man does not reside within the book you offer as historical evidence, no matter how you try to claim that archaelogical evidence and preserved written accounts back it, it is not so.

You have zero evidence of the Old Testament stories being older than 2800 years, where Moses was told to write the word of God and where from as far back as we are able to go, writing was first made in stone. Not one! not even a remnant of Jewish lore has been uncovered in stone which dates back prior to 800 BC. Yet, museums world round are rich with such artifacts from Babylon and Egypt. Why Jake? if your God intended for his word to be written and therefore preserved, he certainly was an incompetent for not having preserved it, whereby, the Gods and Goddesses of both Egypt and Babylon seem to have been a mile ahead of him.

This has nothing to do with the topic.
Start a new thread.

Originally posted by jake1997

This has nothing to do with the topic.
Start a new thread.

It has everything to do with the thread, unless of course you are a one trick pony; incapable of forming more than one thought at a time; incpable of melding like thoughts or just looking to take some heat off your back because you have been cornered.

Address your denominations theft of religious doctrine first, then work backwards before you leap over the ages and try to pass off this fluff of yours as having no realtionship to that which you practice today.

You practice your faith and adhere to beliefs instituted by one church, thanks to Catholicism, and if that particular doctrine offends you, then you need to abandon your own.

Bringing this back to topic...

I was reading this morning and came to these verses. I believe they address the opening post (which is in quotes) very directly.

2Co 6:12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted in your own affections.
2Co 6:13 In return (I speak as to children) widen your hearts also.
2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
2Co 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."

Scripture seems very clear on these practices.

Originally posted by jake1997
This topic has come up in many threads.

The secular / atheist part of the world sees the RCC as the voice of christianity. You say christian, they think Pope. 99.9% have no clue of what is in the bible or what the RCC teaches.

The fact is, the doctrine teaches things that are not in the bible, and contrary to the bible.

The Roman Catholic church might possibly have started out as a godly organization. Over time, much has been added to their doctrine that now has it at odds with the bible.

Below I will show enough that even the outsider should be able to see. My hope is that some catholics will see, and compare rcc doctrine to the bible, and be blessed.



Mary is born without original sin (makes God a liar Rom 3:10 , Mat 19:17, Rom 3:23, 5:12)

AND

Remained sinnless and a virgin her whole life. (makes God a liar via above verses and Mat 1:25, Gal 1:19, Mat 12:49-50, and more)

THEN

Ascended into Heaven just like Jesus where she took her throne as Queen of Heaven....and is now worshiped in the same manner as Jesus. (see notes at end)

Concerning worship of others besides Christ and God

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

The two books of Kings must be read to know many of the things referred to in the OT, by the NT.

Ahab married Jezebel, daughter of the king of Sidon. She brought with her, the pagan gods of her father. Baal and Astarte/Ester (Queen of Heaven, mother of God, Perpetual virgin etc ). She started her inquisition and had the prophets of God hunted down and killed until only Elijah remained. 1 KINGS 19:14

Jesus is the bread of life. Eating things sacrificed to idols would be 'listening to a false prophetess' in this case. God calles idolitry, fornication.

You cannot serve two masters.

From the catechism it seems that the rcc has trouble with the concept of the trinity.

509 Mary is truly "Mother of God" since she is the mother of the eternal Son of God made man, who is God himself.

Mother of the Son of God. Not God. Either there is a Trinity, or there is not.

Now, about mary worship

www.vatican.va...

That page is a must read if you want to get a jump start and be ahead of the curve. Already having the bible version of events... On that page you will watch mary evolve from human, to sinless, perpetual virgin, mother of the living God, queen of heaven, mother of you and I.

Keep in mind. Mary was not chosen because she was blessed. She was blessed because she was chosen. Huge difference.


###########################

Now...

May Mary, Gate of Heaven, help us never to forget and never to lose sight of the Heavenly Homeland, the final destination of our pilgrimage here on earth.

from here

Compare to

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.


Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

###########

Watch scripture get twisted

Its also to be noted how they make it look like Mary had a choice. Its very important.

I will leave the bulk of that page to your discernment of scripture and skip right to the prayer at the end

7. To you, Virgin Immaculate, predestined by God above every other creature to be the advocate of grace and model of holiness for his people, today in a special way I renew the entrustment of the whole Church.

Mary is not the advocate of grace.
Jesus is the model of Holiness
The body of CHRIST does NOT trust in MARY.

May you guide your children on their pilgrimage of faith, making them ever more obedient and faithful to the Word of God.
No matter how much you twist it, we are not guided by Mary, helped to be obedient by mary, nor is our faith in Jesus inclreased by mary.

May you accompany every Christian on the path of conversion and holiness, in the fight against sin and in the search for true beauty that is always an impression and a reflection of divine Beauty.

Mary does not accompany us. Nor does Samuel, Saul, or David. Mary does not convert us, nor help us in that. Mary does not help us in the war of the spirit against the flesh. If Beauty is love...then the love that is seen is the love of God, imparted to us through the Holy Spirit, and reflecting Him who sent it. It has nothing to do with Mary.


May you obtain peace and salvation for all the peoples. May the eternal Father, who desired you to be the immaculate Mother of the Redeemer, also renew in our time through you, the miracles of his merciful love. Amen!
Mary cannot obtain salvation for you. Mary was not born without sin (immaculate) nor did she remain sinless (no not one). God does not work through Mary, but through the Holy Spirit. Mercy is straight from God.


##########


Call For Special Prayers

13. We ask you, Venerable Brothers, to make known Our wishes and Our urgent pleas to the faithful entrusted to your care, in whatever way you deem most suitable. We also ask that you make provisions for special prayers in every diocese and parish during the month of May; in particular, on the feast of the Queenship of Mary, let there be solemn public prayer for the intentions We have mentioned.

14. You should know that We are relying particularly on the prayers of children and those suffering affliction, for their pleas have special power to penetrate heaven and soften God's justice. Since this is a perfect occasion, do not fail to put repeated emphasis on the recitation of the Rosary, the prayer so pleasing to Our Lady and so often recommended by the Roman Pontiffs. It affords the faithful an excellent means of complying effectively and pleasingly with our divine Master's command: "Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you. " (2).

Pray to Mary. Encourage the children to pray to mary.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.


Notice the note 2 at the end. It points you to Mat 7:7

What is not pointed to is

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it

Not in Marys name. Not TO Mary.
TO God
In Jesus name.

You cannot serve two masters.

There is much more. Id like to make this a comprehensive listing for easy referrence, so please feel free to help out. Its important to make the distinction between what is thought to be from Christ, and what is 'said' or credited to Christ.

What about the theory that the concept of Mary (MOG) is also merged with that of Mary of Magdala (and Jesus' (or Mary of Bethany's) sister)?

From: www.bridalchamber.com...

>There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, >and her sister, and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion. >His sister and his mother and his companion were each a Mary.
>Gospel Of Phillip
>
>The three were really one and the same woman.


Here is also an interesting bit of information about the veneration of "Mary":

net-abbey.org...

[edit on 24-7-2005 by Lordling]

um how could Jesus mother be mary magdalene? she is the only mary in the bible that is Miriam, the rest are mary.

the gospels were written before the council of nicea, and they make reference to Jesus being the son of God, so the idea predates catholicism. Original sin (or whatever label you want to call it), also pre dates catholicism since it was written in hebrew (gen 3). Communion was celebrated on a passover the night before Jesus died. that predates the council and is the reason the bread is flat. the round little cakes with a x on them are pagan queen of heaven infiltration. Mary worship is not in the bible.

Mat 27:56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

well, perhaps why phillips gospel wasnt cannonized because of the glaring descripancy between it and the gospel of matthew. the mary's cannot be the same person.

Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

therefore Miriam, is not Mary Magdalene. and Jesus never married Mary Magdalene.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

It would suprise some that Mary didn't become sinless to the RCC church until the early 1900s (I am not sure of the exact date) and for centuraies before that people didn't worship Mary as they do today, certainly not on the same level of Jesus as the "Holy incubator"

Much of the mary dogma became official fairly recently it seems. It appears the source for some of it is the mary spirits themselves.

Originally posted by Lordling>There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, >and her sister, and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion. >His sister and his mother and his companion were each a Mary.

Correct! however, Christians do not want to know that which does not corroborate their fairy tale.

The three Mary's are all realtives of Herod the Great: Miriam; Mariamne and Marian(ume). His wife, his grand daughter and his niece. And if in fact Christians were honest with themselves, and chose not to be blind followers, they would expand their horizons and knowledge base beyond scriptural text into history itself, and make the obvious connection.

Fact is, their masters have done everything in their power to ensure the flock do not exercise their God given rights to think for themselves, and so cling to their dog-eared Bible to support the Bible.




[edit on 7/29/05 by SomewhereinBetween]