A Lie and Distortion：China is" prepared to use Nukes against US“

First of all,I declared that I am an Chinese,a citizen of the RPC.

“If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,” Zhu Chenghu, a major general in the People's Liberation Army, said at an official briefing.

Yes,he said.But he declared it is only his own viewpoint before the interview,not the government.Concerning the chief of staff of the USA claimed he was making a plan to attack the mainland China by air force recently,it is not suprised to hear some unpleasant argument.I think everyone is able to tell the difference between the opinion of a person
and a country.

From the point of view a foreigner, there were two two incident that have made significant influence on American society:
1. The Independent War during 1775 and 1782.
The people of the 13 states decided themselves to live together and get rid of the charge of the UK across the Atlantic,which was the strongest and richest Empire in the world. So,they fight for the freedom of people of the whole 13 states.
2. THe Civil War which broke in 1861 and lasted for 5 years.
The South wanted to seperate from the USA and found their own country. The Unit States forced the South violently to come bach .

So I think it is not difficult for all of us to deduce the following points reasonablly:
1. Since the people of mainland China and Taiwan as a integrated unite since several centuries ago,it is we Chinese people of 30 provinces,have the right determine how we live,but not the government of the USA,more than 8,000 km away accross the Pacific,as far as the distance from London to Washington.
2.China and Chinese people is willing to pay out whatever we have to championship the unification of our country,just as you Amerians did 140 years ago.

We have no clination to frighten the USA or the people living tin USA.In fact,we,mainland China and Twaiwan are trying to solve the problem of ourselves by our own means ,but the government of USA have being showing its power(including aircraft carriers and new types of minitype nukes) to prevent the procedure.
The USA have ten times nukes than China,and you Americans have 12 aircraft carriers,while mainland China has none. I am quite amazed why some of you screaming out "the frighten of China",and show you just distorted data and exaggerations.The only reasonable explain is that someone is raising orgies of hatred between the people of the two country and make a excuse of military operations.
We Chinese are as peaceful and friendly as you American when being treated equally,and as long-suffering as you American when facing abruption of our country and aggression from others,even the stronges power in the world.
If the policy of the government of USA do not change much more peaceful and equal,if the pentagonal insist on prevent the unification of China , if the government of USA still do not admit and respect the lawful right of Chinese people, the war of unification of China may break one day,which is not according the interest of mainland China,Taiwan,and,the USA.
Ironically, I am sorry to have to figure out that,it is the government of USA ,but not the PRC,who invade the basic right of other people ,and be responsible to the war.

Just a couple of things I have to ask:

First, could you tell me is this story is true?

WASHINGTON, July 19 (Reuters) - China not only is massing forces facing Taiwan, but developing new long-range missiles and acquiring an arsenal of sophisticated jets and warships in an ambitious arms build-up, the United States said on Tuesday.

The rest of the story


And secondly...Tell me a few things that you DO NOT like about your leadership in China..I'm sure you have some positive things to say..
But lets hear the downside of the Chinese leadership..

Which current Government officials, do you like..Which ones need to be fired for their negative qualities...Go ahead...Be honest....!

[edit on 19-7-2005 by spacedoubt]

I don't believe the political leaders of China are that stupid. China needs a healthy U.S. economy more than it wants unification with Taiwan.

There will be a lot of diplomatic chess moves in the next years and a lot of saber rattling, but both sides know a real military confrontation is not in China's best interests.

We are both adversaries and partners in an economic symbiosis. Military confrontation would harm both of us, but would harm China more than the U.S.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by dave_54]

We are in a world that is growing smaller all the time. We need to get along and world leader's need to have a sit down and find out that we are all GOD children so that mean's we are all brother's and sister's. If all the war's and evil continue on the path that is set. Then a ring of fire will go across the heaven's and million's of people will die and no it will not be by nuke's but by the hand of the GOD who in the bible is described as a consuming fire. This is what i was showen in a dream and it will come to pass. So let forgive and love one another...Prophetseeker

well if they plan to use nukes against us were all probaly gonna die jk if they did shoot nukes at us we would kill the whole country cause compare how many nukes they to how much we have

I am an American. I may fear my government, but I do Love my Country.

To me, if China fights with Taiwan - that should be resolved between China and Taiwan ONLY - it should not be any one elses business.

I do not belive that this idea is shared by the USA government, as many of our imported products come from Taiwan. Adding to that aspect of things is that it is mentioned at an uncomfortable time. As you know, China desired to purchase USA companies and the USA said no to the sale(s). Although China's desire to purchase the USA companies is very kind the jesture made the USA very uncomfortable, it makes many people wonder if maybe China is planning to conquor USA economy. Too much of USA belongs to forign people. Too many USA jobs going to forign countries (yes, it is good business, but it is also bad for the USA). Perhaps, the unification of China should wait until USA-China relations are in better health.

I you are as smart as I think you are, then you have been reading our posts and you know that our views are often very different than the views of our politicians. A few of us (at least) recognise some of the propoganda regarding forign affairs and policies that are presented to us.

I have no hate for China, nor is "official" USA policy/propoganda likely to change that view. I hope China and USA can be friends as I would like to maybe visit China some day, from the pictures I have seen it is remarkable in many ways.

I think the USA politicians have been spending too much time, money, and effort trying to tell every other country how to do things. Your ending observation is a plausability. They often do not understand other cultures, and think the whole world is like europe. They forget other cultures / countries have been in place and working a long time before the USA existed.

I hope that the USA is not stupid enough to challenge China as China has more troops, and a greater ability to increase its army (China's population is much greater than that of the USA). Yes, the USA may have more nukes and ships than China, However, if they are ever used it is my thought that the only impact it will have on China is to get China very upset with the USA, and China might win - Although It is my hope that we never find out, as you mentioned - it would not be in anyones best interests.

China is a very strong and proud nation and her people are strong and smart. China's economy is good, many internationally sold products are made in China, including arms. China should already have enough arms to easily defend China's interests if necessary. Therefore China should not need to purchase arms from europe, unless China is preparing for aggression (if so, who would China need extra arms to fight?) Some people wonder why was China trying to buy arms from Europe? Unless there is (however unpopular) a certain clination for the USA.

I am currious, though - where and why did you learn english so well?
(Some may belive that maybe it was taught to you in order to make a China occupation of USA easier).

I welcome friends, but will not tollerate invaders.

wrong thread

[edit on 20-7-2005 by bitterweb]

First of all, welcome to the forums corner. It is great having another Chinese person here.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Just a couple of things I have to ask:

First, could you tell me is this story is true?

WASHINGTON, July 19 (Reuters) - 1.China not only is massing forces facing Taiwan,2. but developing new long-range missiles and acquiring an arsenal of sophisticated jets and warships in an ambitious arms build-up, the United States said on Tuesday.

The rest of the story

1.Likely just an exercise.

2.Developing and acquiring new weapons? What developing or develped nation doesn't? I would hardly describe keeping up with current military technolgy an "arms build-up".

And secondly...Tell me a few things that you DO NOT like about your leadership in China..I'm sure you have some positive things to say..
But lets hear the downside of the Chinese leadership..

Which current Government officials, do you like..Which ones need to be fired for their negative qualities...Go ahead...Be honest....!

[edit on 19-7-2005 by spacedoubt]

How exactley would that be relevant to this thread?

Originally posted by dancer
I am an American. I may fear my government, but I do Love my Country.

dancer, you fear your own government more than that of a country that has weapons aimed at your country?

Sorry to have to say it, but you are a nothing but a pitiful example of an appeaser. If you have studied history at all, sucking up to people or governments that threaten you (appeasement) has never worked. Check out Britain's Chamberlain vs. Hitler for a perfect example.

Hopefully, you represent only a small but unfortunately vocal minority in the U.S.

[edit on 7/20/2005 by centurion1211]

Yes, I do fear my government more than a country with weapons pointed at us. I have watched our society decay as a direct result of too much government as well as the passing of laws to protect the populice against events that have worse odds than of getting hit by lightening indoors. Think Patriot act.

I have no proof that any country does have weapons aimed at us, or that they are intent on using them if they do. (I do not doubt that they do, however I ain't going to worry about it until they launch).

I fail to understand how anything I said could possibly be construed as appeasement, I was quite polite and did my best to show my respect for China (Based upon what I do know of their culture).

For all we know corner could be Chineese Military doing recon. Sure it is unlikely, but it is pausable. Corner shows up here a few days ago and goes straight to politics, no martian stories, no "conspiracy" stuff - boom it's pro-china press he has 4 posts, 3 of which are pro-china (Also currious is this post appears twice on ATS alone) so he posted this twice, answered a post, and introduced himself in new members. Re-read corners post carefully - and read between the lines - there is more there than meets the eye.

Among the most important things in relationships is the ability for those who have a dispute to "Save Face" each side must have the ability to return home without loosing face. This simple concept is why the UN does not work. When you and your wife have a fight - if you two are alone it is not difficult for you to say that you are sorry, however if there is are other people around the fight escalates as each person tries to save face (eg. not to be embarassed by admiting fault).

China wants Taiwan back, that has never been a big secret. Corner points out the simmilarities between the desire of China to regain Taiwan to the history of the USA (Our revolution, and our Civil war). Simmilarities that We Americans can identify and possibly simpathise with. An intresting tactic. Then mentions that it is none of our business as we are so far away from the area. A currious next line is that China is willing to do what ever is required for the unification. Again, mentioning the simmilarities between the present situation and US history.

This is followed by assurances that China has no interest in provoking the US, but they are seeing an increase in US presence in the area of their interest and they are becoming concerned of a possible outbreak of hostilities, seeing a growing anti-China sentament presented by US policies. They are asking for us to respect them enough to handle their own affairs, and letting us know if things go badly China may have no alternative but to defend themselves. Closing the post by noting if things go too far it is not their fault.

In response, I opened disclosing that I am an American, and I do not agree with our government, and note that my loyalty is with my country not the govt. I mention that I do understand China's position. That is followed with a notation that it is not the best time to concider any action involving Taiwan, especially after a series of events begining with China attempting to buy (small?) arms from europe several months ago, and China's offer to purchase several US companies. - In short, if they have no interest in the USA, as Coner claims, then why this interesting chain of events. My suggestion is for China to forget about Taiwan for a while, at least until China and the States are on better terms.

My next line is one of respect for Corners intelect, reflecting that I was sure he has been researching this forum, and understands that the participents here do not always buy into what we are told we should buy into.

I then assure Corner that I do respect China, and their culture. Reminding him that our politicians forget cultural differences. This is followed by mentioning that both sides (USA and China) are both forces to be reconed with, and both forces have their strong points. Also mentioning that it would be best if this fight did not happen.

In closing, I mention that the Chineese are smart, and already have enough arms and question the motive of their desire to buy arms from europe and question the reason why his english is so good. Ending the post on a strong but friendly note in no uncertain terms.


[edit on 7/20/2005 by dancer]

Every month or so, or when there is a sudden spate of threads and news items about Sino-US tensions, a Chinese member or three suddenly join up on ATS and start railing on about Taiwanese independence and about how misunderstood and sooper-dooper the CCP is. I'm beginning to think that the CCP has chosen ATS as a propaganda target, because it happens every time without fail and these posters often come in groups (check the register dates for the author here and on the link I provided).

And the arguments for why Taiwan belongs to the CCP and why the U.S. should stay out of it are always the same, almost as if they are learned responses:

From the point of view a foreigner, there were two two incident that have made significant influence on American society:
1. The Independent War during 1775 and 1782.
The people of the 13 states decided themselves to live together and get rid of the charge of the UK across the Atlantic,which was the strongest and richest Empire in the world. So,they fight for the freedom of people of the whole 13 states.
2. THe Civil War which broke in 1861 and lasted for 5 years.
The South wanted to seperate from the USA and found their own country. The Unit States forced the South violently to come bach.

1. It's interesting that you cite the War of Independence, because in such a comparison, Taiwan would be in the role of the Colonies, i.e. a semi-separate state(s), seeking independence from an oppressive government. In this case, the comparison only supports the idea of Taiwanese independence. And, if you expanded the comparison into a hypothetical, whereby the British government was overthrown by bloody revolution to institute a brutal communist regime which the colonies wanted no part of (as is the case with Taiwan), then such a hypothesis would serve to further justify Taiwanese independence. I seriously don't see the point of this comparison in defending the CCP's supposed claim to Taiwan.

Remember the American Declaration of Independence?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

I'm sure the Taiwanese Constitution includes similar ideals. These truths are in polar opposition to the tenets held by the Chinese Communist Party, whose motto is, as Orwell put it, "all men are equal, but some are more equal than others." Should Taiwan reunite with the mainland? Maybe some day it would be nice, if that's what the Taiwanese people want. Should Taiwan reunite with the mainland while the CCP is in power? No frikkin way!

2. The comparison with the American Civil War is moot. Firstly, the war ended in a result. The Union won, and America was united under one government. When the CCP took over China, they never took Taiwan and they couldn't. The ROC set up government in Taiwan, and the CCP set up government on the mainland. Hence, one nation became two and it has been that way for 56 years. The world has changed, the war is over, and most of its participants are dead. Taiwan and the rest of the world knows this, why doesn't the CCP? And don't give me any bollocks about "the right of 1.3 billion people to retain their territory". What about the right of the free people of Taiwan to choose their own destiny, choose their own government, and choose not to have their children be blown to pieces by CCP missiles? Hmmm...

The UN didn't recognize the CCP as the legitimate government of China until 1971, and that was only changed because the reality that the ROC would never take the mainland again was admitted, and because the West wanted to appease the CCP to get a piece of that big, juicy, 1.3b people market. But at the same time the US made a pact to protect Taiwan in the event of aggression from the CCP. And under that protection, Taiwan developed into a free, democratic nation, while the CCP continued as a tyrannical, murdering regime.

Secondly, I know it's not so black and white, but in the American civil war, the Union was the good guys, battling against slavery. The good guys won. In the Chinese civil war, the distinction was also not so clear, but the CCP very rapidly proved themselves to be the bad guys, and there is no way that anyone would have reasonably advocated for Taiwan to submit to their oppressive, inept, despotic, butchering rule.

And now, 56 years later, with Taiwan being an independent nation in all but name, the CCP's claims to Taiwan are at best ridiculous, at worst maniacal.

[edit on 2005-7-20 by wecomeinpeace]

Which current Government officials, do you like..Which ones need to be fired for their negative qualities...Go ahead...Be honest....!

[edit on 19-7-2005 by spacedoubt]

How exactley would that be relevant to this thread?

It's perfectly relevant.
I'll explain why, if and when I get an answer from the person who started this thread..Lets' just call it a "feeler" type of question..



[edit on 21-7-2005 by spacedoubt]

Wecomeinpeace -> Very good points -

When the USA had it's civil war, the north didn't wait 56 years to make a final decision to reunite it's borders, the responce was immediate.

After 56 years Taiwan should no longer be thought of as anything other than an independent sovereign nation by the Entire world. It is too late for China to be considered anything but agressors to Taiwan.

I am embarassed to say I failed to see those aspects that were so obvoius to you.

Yeah... China is trying to reunify with Taiwan peacefully. Apparantly that involves aiming HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS, of ballistic missiles at the small island nation. When the Southern United States tried to withdrawl from the Union, we immediately took action to prevent such. Yet Taiwan has been on its own now for some 50 years? Right? How can you compare the two situations? What's more, we fought the South for another fundamental reason: the abolition of slavery. What is China fighting for other than more territory?

You say you want the United States to take a more peaceful approach with China. Shouldn't China then stop its theft and spying of American military technology? Shouldn't China withdrawl its thousands of shell corporations from the US, which are only used to obtain classified American technology?

You say that the US should respect the laws of China. When is China going to respect the intelectual property of American citizens'? As far as I'm concerned, China has a lot more to do on its end before it can start barking orders at the US. We, through our great President Richard Nixon, opened the doors to your Communist regime. We certainly didn't have to recognize your government's existence. You should be thankful that we even have diplomatic ties to your nation, despite it's horrible record on human rights.

Your country also undervalues its money vs. the dollar. That's something you guys need to change. You also need to stop exporting goods to the US at a loss. Your cheap labor force also makes trade extremely unfair, and expands the trade gap every single day.

Other than all that stuff, welcome to ATS!

Hello, Agent Corner.
I have met your coworker and comrad, Agent Henry.

Welcome to AboveTopSecret; I hope you enjoy your stay here.

I see you are getting to know some of our other members. As you can see, they have the ability of rational and deductive thinking and really enjoy shredding lousy analogies. They also have a propensity for reading history.

Everyone have a good time in the sandbox, and always look out for and dispose of kitty crap. Sometimes the cats mistake the sandbox for the litterbox!

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
but the CCP very rapidly proved themselves to be the bad guys, and there is no way that anyone would have reasonably advocated for Taiwan to submit to their oppressive, inept, despotic, butchering rule.

I respect your knowledge and insight, the CCP's agents have not the ability to response.

However, the logo you chose make me think of the evil CCP, it tries to cover its evil nature, but time and time it cannot stop hurting and murdering innocent people.

I suggest you change that, deleting all the evil things in the world, evil CCP cannot survive alone, right?

regard

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
Every month or so, or when there is a sudden spate of threads and news items about Sino-US tensions, a Chinese member or three suddenly join up on ATS and start railing on about Taiwanese independence and about how misunderstood and sooper-dooper the CCP is. I'm beginning to think that the CCP has chosen ATS as a propaganda target, because it happens every time without fail and these posters often come in groups (check the register dates for the author here and on the link I provided).

And the arguments for why Taiwan belongs to the CCP and why the U.S. should stay out of it are always the same, almost as if they are learned responses:

From the point of view a foreigner, there were two two incident that have made significant influence on American society:
1. The Independent War during 1775 and 1782.
The people of the 13 states decided themselves to live together and get rid of the charge of the UK across the Atlantic,which was the strongest and richest Empire in the world. So,they fight for the freedom of people of the whole 13 states.
2. THe Civil War which broke in 1861 and lasted for 5 years.
The South wanted to seperate from the USA and found their own country. The Unit States forced the South violently to come bach.

1. It's interesting that you cite the War of Independence, because in such a comparison, Taiwan would be in the role of the Colonies, i.e. a semi-separate state(s), seeking independence from an oppressive government. In this case, the comparison only supports the idea of Taiwanese independence. And, if you expanded the comparison into a hypothetical, whereby the British government was overthrown by bloody revolution to institute a brutal communist regime which the colonies wanted no part of (as is the case with Taiwan), then such a hypothesis would serve to further justify Taiwanese independence. I seriously don't see the point of this comparison in defending the CCP's supposed claim to Taiwan.

Remember the American Declaration of Independence?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

I'm sure the Taiwanese Constitution includes similar ideals. These truths are in polar opposition to the tenets held by the Chinese Communist Party, whose motto is, as Orwell put it, "all men are equal, but some are more equal than others." Should Taiwan reunite with the mainland? Maybe some day it would be nice, if that's what the Taiwanese people want. Should Taiwan reunite with the mainland while the CCP is in power? No frikkin way!

2. The comparison with the American Civil War is moot. Firstly, the war ended in a result. The Union won, and America was united under one government. When the CCP took over China, they never took Taiwan and they couldn't. The ROC set up government in Taiwan, and the CCP set up government on the mainland. Hence, one nation became two and it has been that way for 56 years. The world has changed, the war is over, and most of its participants are dead. Taiwan and the rest of the world knows this, why doesn't the CCP? And don't give me any bollocks about "the right of 1.3 billion people to retain their territory". What about the right of the free people of Taiwan to choose their own destiny, choose their own government, and choose not to have their children be blown to pieces by CCP missiles? Hmmm...

The UN didn't recognize the CCP as the legitimate government of China until 1971, and that was only changed because the reality that the ROC would never take the mainland again was admitted, and because the West wanted to appease the CCP to get a piece of that big, juicy, 1.3b people market. But at the same time the US made a pact to protect Taiwan in the event of aggression from the CCP. And under that protection, Taiwan developed into a free, democratic nation, while the CCP continued as a tyrannical, murdering regime.

Secondly, I know it's not so black and white, but in the American civil war, the Union was the good guys, battling against slavery. The good guys won. In the Chinese civil war, the distinction was also not so clear, but the CCP very rapidly proved themselves to be the bad guys, and there is no way that anyone would have reasonably advocated for Taiwan to submit to their oppressive, inept, despotic, butchering rule.

And now, 56 years later, with Taiwan being an independent nation in all but name, the CCP's claims to Taiwan are at best ridiculous, at worst maniacal.

[edit on 2005-7-20 by wecomeinpeace]