Debate Tournament, 3rd Round: RealFight Vs David: HIV

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posted on Jul, 23 2003 @ 12:32 AM
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DEBATE TOURNAMENT, 3rd Round: RealFight VS David

The Semi-Finals round of the First ATS Debate Tournament continues!

The topic: HIV is a biological weapon.

RealFight will argue the position of affirmative.

David will argue the contrary position.

David has won the toss for opening statement. (David can pass his first post to RealFight if he wishes)

The format will be:

1 opening statment from each side.

4 alternating posts from each side. Each post cannot exceed 1,000 words and my not have more than one reference link. Each participant will have 18 hours to post thier arguements respectively.

RealFight has first closing statement (like the opening statement, he can pass to David)

Each side may have 1 follow-up rebuttal post to the other's closing statement, but rebuttals may not exceed 200 words.

Please follow all other rules of ATS Online Debate posting in the Debate Forum.



David, the debate thread is yours.




posted on Jul, 23 2003 @ 04:44 PM
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Thank you dragonrider.

Well i suppose i should start by explaining what AIDS is.

AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) is a medical condition caused by a virus called HIV (human immunodeficiency virus). The HIV virus attacks the immune system, the body's "security force" that fights off infections like the flu and chickenpox. When the immune system breaks down, you lose this protection and can develop many serious, often deadly infections and cancers. These are called "opportunistic infections (OIs)" because they take advantage of the body's weakened defenses. You have heard it said that someone "died of AIDS." However... this is not entirely accurate, since it is the opportunistic infections that cause death. AIDS is the condition that lets the OIs take hold.

And so now we ask...What is HIV?

HIV is a virus, like the flu or cold. A virus is really nothing but a set of instructions for making new viruses, wrapped up in some fat, protein and sugar. Without living cells, a virus can't do anything it's like a brain with no body. In order to make more viruses (and to do all of the other nasty things that viruses do), a virus has to infect a cell. HIV mostly infects T-cells, also known as CD4+ cells, or T-helper cells. These cells are white blood cells that turn the immune system on to fight disease. Once inside the cell, HIV starts producing millions of little viruses, which eventually kill the cell and then go out to infect other cells. All of the drugs marketed to treat HIV work by interfering with this process.

Its really not that complicated, AIDS is an immune deficiency caused by a virus, almost like feeling weak after the flu, but this creates an open door to lots of terrible virii and infections which will eventually kill you.

This is a natural process, there are viruses out there than can overpower us completely, this one overpowers us but doesnt kill us, it only subjects us to infections from other things. If this was a biological weapon it would be an intensely sloppy one, its very easy to protect against with the use of condoms and numerous other ways.

This isnt some kind of genetically engineered killing machine it is slow and weak and can only be transmitted in a very limited way.

There is no logic in creating a biological weapon such as AIDS, only human complacency lets it be transmitted and it can also be treated successfully if you stick to the medical regimen.

Over to you realflight.




posted on Jul, 24 2003 @ 06:01 PM
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Debate Chair stepping in:

RealFlight, you have until 12:00 midnight CST 7/25/03 to post or the next turn goes to David.



posted on Jul, 25 2003 @ 08:40 PM
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As realflight hasn't posted he has forfeited this turn and i will now continue the arguments of my side.

In this post, in order to show how fragile and sloppy AIDS is, i will present the methods that stops its transition from person to person, from sexual methods to the sharing of syringes.

Sex and the transmission of fluid.
Sexual hygene is the practice of following certain health rules. In this, the age of AIDS, sexual hygiene means avoiding the exchange of body fluids and secretions during sex.

Semen, vaginal and cervical secretions, blood, urine, feces, saliva, tears, and mother's milk from one person should not be placed into the mouth, nose, eyes, ears, vagina, anus, or open wounds (even microscopic) of another person. As mentioned previously, the hands often have microscopic wounds around the cuticles which have came about through normal daily life, and remain unseen for the most part..

How to erect physical barriers

1.Condoms.
Use latex condoms to reduce the risk of catching or transmitting HIV. Condoms should be used for anal, oral, and vaginal intercourse, as this interrupts the flow of fluids to your partners skin.

Semen is a potentially contaminated substance. If contaminated, it is highly infectious. Neither semen nor pre-ejaculation fluid should come into contact with mucous membrane surfaces. Ideally, semen should not come into contact with a person's hands eithe due to the wounds at the base of the fingernails. Ideally, latex gloves should be worn to prevent hand-to-semen contact.(however unattractive they may be)

For those wondering why i'm talking about this, it is to expose just how fragile the AIDS and HIV virii are, they take many years to kill and can be stopped with very little effort, its mainly through complacency that the virii continue to spread

Selection of a Sex Partner.
One form of protection against transmission is careful selection of sexual partners.
Avoid having sex with partners who; have sex with numerous people, with HIV-infected people, with drug users (including steroid users), with people who have sex with HIV-infected people, with people whose HIV status is unknown, and so on.

IV Needle Precautions.
All intravenous (IV) needles and hypodermic needles should be destroyed immediately after one use ONLY. Anyone who shares IV needles or hypodermic needles with other people is at risk for catching AIDS. There is some danger if the IV needles or hypodermic needles are being re-used in medical settings due to complacency or lack of funding, as is common in some Third World countries. If you happen to be in a foreign country during the outbreak of some infectious diseases, such as cholera, you may be required to accept injections in order to cross country borders. In some instances, travelers have been injected with re-used IV needles and/or hypodermic needles.
You can buy your own IV/Hypodermic needles from travel shops which are clearly marked for medical use only.

I felt this post was needed even though some will think its off track, it outlines the measures that can be taken to avoid the spread of AIDS/HIV which further illustrates the point that AIDS is not a fantastic killing machine engineered in some laboratory deep underground, it is a simple terrible disease that is spread through the complacency of humans, drugs can be used to treat infections and anti-hiv spermicides are available.
These drugs can cost alot of money in african countries and may require up to 20 pills a day to work effectively against it, however the problem in africa is that most people do not have watches, and cannot stick to a schedule.



posted on Jul, 28 2003 @ 09:32 PM
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Still no replies from realight, man, my opponents must be jinxed.

So, onwards i go with my latest post where i shall deal with the origins of the AIDS and HIV virii.

The first recorded cases of AIDS (index patients) occurred in the USA in 1981, but they provide little information about the source of the disease. There is now clear evidence that the disease AIDS is caused by the virus HIV. So to find the source of AIDS we need to look for the origin of HIV.

The issue of the origin of HIV could go beyond one of academic interest, as an understanding of where the virus originated and how it evolved could be crucial in developing a vaccine against HIV and more effective treatments in the future. Also, a knowledge of how the AIDS epidemic emerged could be important in both mapping the future course and developing effective education and prevention programmes for the world.

What type of virus is HIV???
HIV is part of a family or group of viruses called lentiviruses. Lentiviruses other than HIV have been found in a wide range of nonhuman primates (Apes, monkeys etc). These other lentiviruses are known collectively as simian (monkey) viruses (SIV) where a subscript is used to denote their species of origin.

So by now we have deduced that the HIV virus is related to SIV, a simian (monkey) virus... and on we go.

So...Did HIV really come from an SIV?
It is now widely accepted that HIV is a descendant of simian (monkey) immunodeficiency virus (SIV). Certain simian immunodeficiency viruses bear a very close resemblance to HIV-1 and HIV-2, the two types of HIV.
HIV-2 corresponds to a (SIV) simian immunodeficiency virus found in the green monkey, which is native to western Africa.

The more virulent strain of HIV, namely HIV-1, was until very recently more difficult to place. Until 1999 the closest counterpart that had been identified was the simian (monkey) immunodeficiency virus that was known to infect chimpanzees, but this virus had significant differences between it and HIV.

In February 1999 it was announced that a group of researchers from the U. of Alabama had studied frozen tissue from a chimp and found that the simian virus it carried was almost identical to HIV-1. The chimpanzee came from a sub-group of chimpanzees known as Pan troglodytes, which were once common in west-central Africa. It is claimed by the researchers that this shows that these chimpanzees were the source of HIV-1, and that the virus at some point crossed species from chimpanzees to human.The findings of this 10-year long research into the origin and evolution of HIV by Nottingham University and the University of Alabama were published this year. They concluded that wild chimps became infected simultaneously with two simian immunodeficiency viruses (SIVs) which had "viral sex" to form a third virus capable of infecting humans and causing AIDS.
HIV-1 was introduced into humans around the 1940s or the early 1950s, which was earlier than had previously been suggested. Other scientists have suggested that it could have been even longer, perhaps around 100 years or more ago.

In January 2000, the results of a new study presented at the 7th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections, suggested that the first case of HIV infection occurred around 1930 in West Africa.
Bingo!
There we have it, HIV comes from apes, chimps and monkeys. And as we all know, HIV leads to AIDS.



And in short for those who dont like to read long paragraphs:
We now assume that because HIV has apparently developed from a form of SIV found in a type of chimpanzee in West Africa, that is was actually in West Africa that HIV first emerged in humans. It is then presumed that HIV spread from there around the world.
We will probably never know exactly when and where the virus first emerged, but what is clear is that sometime in the middle of the 20th century, HIV infection in humans developed into the epidemic of disease around the world that we now refer to as AIDS



posted on Jul, 30 2003 @ 10:58 PM
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Regretfully, due to lack of participation by the opposition, David is declared the winner of Round 3 of the Debate Tournament by default!






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