Prigozhin denies Sergei Shoigu attempts to put PMC Wagner under the direct command MOD

Interesting development,

Prigozhin denies Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu's attempts to put PMC Wagner under the direct command of the Ministry of Defense

How essential is Wagner to Russia's plans? I know Russia operates with infighting but this seems excessive and could be somewhat crippling. After all, if Russia's military didn't need the mercenaries then why pay for them? Lots of questions here

www.newsweek.com...

The head of the Russian Wagner Group of mercenaries has hit back at the Russian Defense Ministry as the spat between Russia's military and mercenary organizations working alongside it in Ukraine widens.

On Saturday, the Russian Defense Ministry said "volunteer formations" would need to sign contracts with the Russian government by July 1, sanctioned by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

The Wagner Group is typically referred to by the ministry, and in the Russian media, as a volunteer assault detachment. The move was designed to increase the effectiveness of the Russian armed forces, the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement.

"Those orders and decrees that Shoigu forms, they apply to employees of the Ministry of Defense and to military personnel," Prigozhin said in a statement posted in a request for comment on the Defense Ministry's move.

The Wagner Group "will not sign any contracts with Shoigu," Prigozhin continued.

The Wagner Group "coordinates its action" with the Russian military, he said, adding it "has the deepest experience" with a "highly effective structure."

"Shoigu cannot manage military formations," Prigozhin added.

Tensions between the Wagner leader and Russian military leadership have been simmering for months. As Wagner troops bore the brunt of high casualty counts in battles around the destroyed Donetsk city of Bakhmut, Prigozhin accused Shoigu and Russia's top commander, General Valery Gerasimov, of "high treason" by denying the group the resources it needed.

Earlier this month, Wagner mercenaries captured a Russian commander, Lieutenant Colonel Roman Venevitin, and posted a video of him on the group's social media.

The video was met with concern by several members of the Russian military blogger community, looking at the consequences of the rift between Wagner Group and the Russian Defense Ministry, the U.S.-based Institute for the Study of War think tank said.

Russian Defense Minister demands put PMC Wagner under the direct command of the Russian MoD, which the leader, Prigozhin, understandably denies.

a reply to: putnam6

Putin is obviously still trying to win this without formally declaring it a war and calling for a general mobilization to raise the troops and funds he would need. Under the Russian constitution, only the Duma can declare war, and he really doesn't want to go to them, for some reason. I have to assume he thinks he might not win the vote and might get booted from office, as a result. I thought he had a firm control on the Duma, but maybe not.

originally posted by: 1947boomer
a reply to: putnam6

Putin is obviously still trying to win this without formally declaring it a war and calling for a general mobilization to raise the troops and funds he would need. Under the Russian constitution, only the Duma can declare war, and he really doesn't want to go to them, for some reason. I have to assume he thinks he might not win the vote and might get booted from office, as a result. I thought he had a firm control on the Duma, but maybe not.

Hmmm, I forgot all about that aspect, have heard it mentioned before but need to read more on this. Perhaps thats why we are hearing some Russian pundits call for complete and total war on Ukraine, to influence the masses.

Sounds as if Vladimir has found himself between a rock and a hard place. Obviously, withdrawal is out of the question, doubtful if politically he could survive the aftermath, but he can force the SMO to continue even though that is unsure now, the feud between the regular military and Wagner isn't totally debilitating but it likely prolongs the conflict if not outright stall it out

I'm sure Newsweek knows exactly what's going on inside the Kremlin. Much like their grasp of Russia-gate.

Moving on...

originally posted by: JAY1980
I'm sure Newsweek knows exactly what's going on inside the Kremlin. Much like their grasp of Russia-gate.

Moving on...

Well here you go, I didn't realize you didn't know your favorite search engine has a search button OR additionally please list your preferred sources and I'll be glad to find corresponding articles about this subject.

Regrettably, both TASS and Pravda.ru so far have very little on the subject, however, there is enough buzz that it seems Sergie would indeed like to control the Wagner Forces and probably got a response from Wagner's Prigozhin like this



here's a just of a few the resources covering the story in varying degrees even the western leaning aljazeera.com



www.aljazeera.com...


Prigozhin Says Wagner Will Not Sign Any Contract With Russian Defence Minister
U.S. News &...
15h

Russian Defence Minister forces all mercenary groups to sign contract with Russian MoD; Wa…
YAHOO!News
14h

Wagner chief rejects Russian Defense Ministry efforts to rein in his force
CNN on MSN.com
9h

Wagner 'will not sign any contract' with Russian defence minister
RTE Online
10h

Prigozhin says Wagner will not sign any contract with Russian defense minister
The Korea Times
14h

www.abc.net.au... › news › 2023-06-12 › yevgeny-prigozhin-rejects-contract-with-defence-ministry › 102467786
Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin says Wagner will not sign any contract ...

TodayAs Russia's Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu orders all "volunteer detachments" to sign contracts with his ministry, Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin says the order did not apply to the Wagner group.

www.nytimes.com... › 2023 › 06 › 11 › world › europe › wagner-russia-defense-ministry-contract.html
Wagner Founder Rebuffs Order Requiring Contract With Russia's Defense ...
TodayThe blunt refusal to comply with the order marks the latest flashpoint in a long-running feud between the mercenary boss, Yevgeny V. Prigozhin, and Russia's defense minister, Sergei K. Shoigu ...

www.rte.ie... › news › 2023 › 0611 › 1388568-wagner-russia
Wagner 'will not sign contract' with Russian minister - RTÉ
TodayRussia's most powerful mercenary has said that his Wagner fighters would not sign any contract with Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, publicly refusing an attempt by the defence ministry to bring ...

www.reuters.com... › world › europe › prigozhin-says-wagner-will-not-sign-any-contract-with-russian-defence-minister-2023-06-11
Prigozhin says Wagner will not sign any contract with Russian defence ...
TodayMOSCOW, June 11 (Reuters) - Russia's most powerful mercenary said on Sunday that his Wagner fighters would not sign any contract with Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, publicly refusing an attempt ...

news.yahoo.com... › shoigu-orders-pmcs-placed-under-210300941.html
Shoigu orders all PMCs to be placed under Russian Defense Ministry ...
TodayYevgeny Prigozhin, founder and leader of the Wagner PMC, immediately and vehemently rejected Shoigu's directive, asserting that he will not enter into any contracts with the Ministry of Defense. Read also: Prigozhin complains about Russian army impeding Wagner's withdrawal from Bakhmut Prigozhin said that the Wagner PMC already coordinates its actions with Russian Armed Forces unit ...

finance.yahoo.com... › news › 1-prigozhin-says-wagner-not-110435052.html
UPDATE 2-Prigozhin says Wagner will not sign any contract with Russian ...
TodayMOSCOW, June 11 (Reuters) - Russia's most powerful mercenary said on Sunday that his Wagner fighters would not sign any contract with Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu just hours after the ...

www.cnn.com... › 2023 › 06 › 11 › world › wagner-rebuffs-russia-defense-ministry-intl › index.html
Wagner chief says he won't sign contracts with Russia's Defense ... - CNN
TodayPMC 'Wagner' will not sign any contracts with Shoigu," Prigozhin said in a Telegram post. Wagner, he said, would "absolutely" pursue the "the interests of the Russian Federation and ...

news.yahoo.com... › prigozhin-says-wagner-not-sign-110819530.html
Prigozhin says Wagner will not sign any contract with Russian defence ...
TodayMOSCOW (Reuters) -Russia's most powerful mercenary said on Sunday that his Wagner fighters would not sign any contract with Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, publicly refusing an attempt by the defence ministry to bring his fighting force under its sway. Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of the Wagner group, has repeatedly attacked President Vladimir Putin's top military brass for what he casts as ...

www.usnews.com... › news › world › articles › 2023-06-11 › prigozhin-says-wagner-will-not-sign-any-contract-with-russian-defence-minister
Prigozhin Says Wagner Will Not Sign Any Contract With Russian Defence ...
TodayBy Guy Faulconbridge. MOSCOW (Reuters) -Russia's most powerful mercenary said on Sunday that his Wagner fighters would not sign any contract with Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu, publicly refusing ...

www.rferl.org... › a › russia-prigozhin-shoigu-feud-decree-ukraine › 32454350.html
Wagner Chief Refuses To Obey Decree In Latest Spat With Russian Defense ...
TodayThe decree, signed by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and posted on the agency's website, did not specify if all volunteer groups are required to sign contracts with the ministry or just some.

Lastly, if you feel the need to move on in the future on threads that hurt your sensitivities, perhaps it would be easier if you moved on without posting at all.

So is that a list of others who surely know what is going on in the kremlin?

a reply to: putnam6

originally posted by: Dalamax
So is that a list of others who surely know what is going on in the kremlin?

a reply to: putnam6

Again if you have a better source comrade, Im all ears.

But considering Russia is just now admitting to deaths in thier space programs in the 70s perhaps the lack of news from TASS or Pravda is somewhat understandable and doesn't mean all the other resources are in correct

We do have this semi-related TASS nugget that ought to warm your heart like a shot of Stoli aka. Stolichnaya. Been verified by RT so it must be the truth

tass.com...

More than 13,500 Russians signed up for contract service so far in June – Defense Ministry
According to Russian Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Pankov, this is 3.1 times more than in April 2023
MOSCOW, June 10. /TASS/. More than 13,500 people signed up for contract service in the armed forces so far in June, triple the number from April, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Nikolay Pankov said on Saturday.

"Over the first 10 days of this month, more than 13,500 people have signed up for contract service, which is 2.1 times as many as during the same period in May, and 3.1 times as many as during the same period in April 2023," he said in a conference call at the ministry.

www.rt.com...

Then there is this found after much searching there is indeed a volunteer order that must be signed by all volunteers by July 1st

tass.ru...

Order for volunteers
On June 10, the Russian Defense Ministry reported that in order to increase the effectiveness of the use of volunteer units as part of the joint group of troops, Shoigu signed an order defining the procedure for organizing the service activities of volunteer organizations.

The document determines that before July 1, volunteer detachments must sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense. This will give volunteer formations the necessary legal status, create unified approaches to organizing support and fulfilling their tasks.

The order grants the right to all volunteers to enter into individual contracts with either volunteer units or the Ministry of Defense as contracted military personnel. The document will ensure that they, as well as their family members, receive social protection and support measures established by the state.

He also noted that the order issued under the leadership of the Supreme Commander of the RF Armed Forces, President of Russia Vladimir Putin and the Minister of Defense, will increase the effectiveness of the use of volunteer units. The document determines that the contracts must be signed before July 1.

Vodka? Isn’t that glorified mouthwash.

At last one of the ‘super’ powers is beginning to tell the truth about space

a reply to: putnam6

originally posted by: Dalamax
Vodka? Isn’t that glorified mouthwash.

At last one of the ‘super’ powers is beginning to tell the truth about space

a reply to: putnam6

Back to the actual subject of the thread

Somewhat of confirmation from aljazeera.com

www.aljazeera.com...

12 Jun 2023
Russia’s defence ministry has signed a contract with the Akhmat group of Chechen special forces, a paramilitary group waging the Kremlin’s offensive near the town of Mariinka in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine.

originally posted by: 1947boomer
a reply to: putnam6

Putin is obviously still trying to win this without formally declaring it a war and calling for a general mobilization to raise the troops and funds he would need. Under the Russian constitution, only the Duma can declare war, and he really doesn't want to go to them, for some reason. I have to assume he thinks he might not win the vote and might get booted from office, as a result. I thought he had a firm control on the Duma, but maybe not.

I think Putin is obviously trying to get rid of Prigozhin.

Putin wields a lot of power but he's growing old. When he inevitably steps down there will be a power vacuum. Prigozhin has his own private military and he would have fought for the seat of power, possibly causing a civil war if someone else tried to take it.

Destroying his army and killing him secures the future of whoever it is that Putin wants to replace him.

a reply to: putnam6

Shoigu is playing a dangerous game in response to Prigozhin's open insults at him , the 20,000 Wagner forces killed in Bakhmut would have been Russians if not for Wagner.

Prigozhin won't back down so this could get interesting , are he and his forces more important to Putin than Shoigu ? , I think they are but removing Shoigu would come with its own set of problems.

a reply to: gortex

Might Putin have Prigozhin charged with treason or somesuch?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I guess he could given statements made by Prigozhin about military incompetence and publicly announcing his capture of a Russian officer but given Wagner's usefulness I doubt he would , Vlad is like a parent in-between two squabbling kids while trying to cook the dinner , no wounder he looked so depressed in that speech he made a few days ago.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I guess he could given statements made by Prigozhin about military incompetence and publicly announcing his capture of a Russian officer but given Wagner's usefulness I doubt he would , Vlad is like a parent in-between two squabbling kids while trying to cook the dinner , no wounder he looked so depressed in that speech he made a few days ago.

It's weird I thought the same thing when I wandered on to this clip of it while looking for something else.

twitter.com...



on a side note holy hell, you can spend days on Twitter and Telegram with the back-and-forth propaganda on both sides, but occasionally you find something worthwhile

geoconfirmed.org...

Geoconfirmed.org is one of those that so far seems worthwhile, with a plethora of fakes, and misrepresented videos and photos, they can trace the locations and confirm its locale and thus making it likely it's legit.



for example, this looks like one of those homemade missiles? long-range artillery? they have been classified as neutral struck near a railroad station in occupied Donetsk. I was amazed at how nonplussed the workers seemed to be at the sandwich place, here in the US restaurants shut down if the weather is nasty.

twitter.com...

Prigozhin has insinuated that he could pull his forces out of Ukraine ,a remark aimed at the ears of Putin and Shoigu no doubt.

Yevgeny Prigozhin - who remains at loggerheads with the Russian ministry of defence - made the comments when asked which area the group would fight in next.

"I'm not sure that we will work in Ukraine," said the mercenary leader, whose troops recently took Bakhmut on behalf of Russia after the longest and deadliest battle of the war.

He also gave his assessment of Ukraine's counter-offensive.

"Any offensive and its results must be evaluated after the enemy's offensive potential has been exhausted.

"As far as I understand, Ukraine's offensive potential is far, far from exhausted.

"It will take a month and a half or two, and we will have to decide whether they have achieved their result or not. "
news.sky.com...